Paizo decides to cancel Slavery from future products

BoxCrayonTales · January 09, 2022, 06:43:06 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 06, 2022, 08:44:13 AM
Quote from: Wrath of God on January 05, 2022, 09:36:07 PM
QuoteJust as WOTC has Volo's Guide to Monsters; Paizo has the Monster Codex, for Pathfinder 1E. It has a good long full page of lore expansion for each monstrous race, at the beginning of each race section. They even used small type, to fit more lore content on the page. They have a good write up about each "race" of monstrous humanoids. Then they stat out several examples of each "race". I have a hard copy, but I don't have access to it right now. Of course, Orcs and Drow are included. I bet there are some juicy nuggets there to be found.

PAIZO quite cleverly made drows to be result of curse so elf can drow-himself if he is evil enough, and good drow will de-drow. That with more hellish and less-black purple skin, and their curse being result of demon worship, allows basically to play drows as morally responsible for being drows not elves.
Their orcs on the other hand... XD
Baizuo has been so weird about this I wonder if they have some kind of institutional schizophrenia.

The phenomenon of an elf 'falling' and becoming a drow is a thing in PF, but it's usually (a) plot device, and (b) it is not ICly well known at all. It's a HUGE thing in the Second Darkness path because the PCs witness it and it can cause a bit of consternation among those elf rulers who DO know about it.

And that's okay. It's like a call back to how the drow in Dragonlance work.

This same campaign also hangs a big ol' lampshade on Drizzt and straight up says, 'drow who don't conform to the usual modes of evil are thought to have some kind of mental issue -- sometimes their society tries an intervention or even therapy, but if that doesn't work the poor fucker gets to be guest of honor at the next sacrificial rite to the patron demon'.

(Part of me wonders how therapy to make you properly evil would work. I am a bit amused.)

I can't help but think that Baizuo was trying to grab a little attention away from WotC with the slavery announcement.

Wait... so in Pathfinder if an elf acts too evil then they develop black skin? Wow. That sounds super racist. /s

Shrieking Banshee · January 09, 2022, 06:58:17 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 09, 2022, 06:43:06 PMWait... so in Pathfinder if an evil acts too evil then they develop black skin? Wow. That sounds super racist.

And your a super moron. Dark = Evil is a thing in every goddam culture because humans are not nocturnal.
Black people don't relate themselves to demons or orcs because 'Wow their black just like us!'.

You fucking love just finding basic universal elements in fiction and screaming 'racist' because it makes you feel smart or enlightened.

BoxCrayonTales · January 09, 2022, 08:01:00 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 09, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 09, 2022, 06:43:06 PMWait... so in Pathfinder if an evil acts too evil then they develop black skin? Wow. That sounds super racist.

And your a super moron. Dark = Evil is a thing in every goddam culture because humans are not nocturnal.
Black people don't relate themselves to demons or orcs because 'Wow their black just like us!'.

You fucking love just finding basic universal elements in fiction and screaming 'racist' because it makes you feel smart or enlightened.

I was being sarcastic. I should have put some /s in there.

But to be fair, "cursed with black skin for sinning" is an actual thing that some racists used to believe about black people in real life. Some still believe it.

I find it ironic that a progressive outlet would use this in their work.

mightybrain · January 09, 2022, 08:07:27 PM

What is the grammar for a non-binary singular they pronoun?

"You see a cleric, they has no sword."

palaeomerus · January 09, 2022, 08:25:18 PM

Cleric used to imply someone with no sword. TEEHEE

Shrieking Banshee · January 09, 2022, 09:17:14 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 09, 2022, 08:01:00 PMI was being sarcastic. I should have put some /s in there.

Then I apologize. The nature of prog arguments makes it very hard to distinguish satire from true belief.

QuoteBut to be fair, "cursed with black skin for sinning" is an actual thing that some racists used to believe about black people in real life. Some still believe it.

Meh. I feel people are too caught up in fringe beliefs.

QuoteI find it ironic that a progressive outlet would use this in their work.

Past Paizo wasn't as prog as they are now.

Ghostmaker · January 09, 2022, 09:40:45 PM

I guess you could interpret it as racist, if you were a paint-chip eating SJW.

Also, Second Darkness discusses what it takes for an elf to fall (and remember, as GM you don't even have to run the Second Darkness AP). Typically just being evil won't cut it. It has to be a betrayal of your very ideals -- something that would cause, in OSR terms, a full on alignment shift. There are plenty of evil elves in Golarion who haven't become drow.

It's very similar to a paladin falling from grace and becoming a blackguard.

mightybrain · January 10, 2022, 02:05:47 AM

A guard of color.

Wrath of God · January 10, 2022, 03:44:47 AM

QuoteWait... so in Pathfinder if an elf acts too evil then they develop black skin? Wow. That sounds super racist. /s

More dark purple. But... yes :3

QuoteBut to be fair, "cursed with black skin for sinning" is an actual thing that some racists used to believe about black people in real life. Some still believe it.

Ah, yes. Mark of Cain presbies.

Shasarak · January 10, 2022, 04:05:13 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 09, 2022, 06:43:06 PM
Wait... so in Pathfinder if an elf acts too evil then they develop black skin? Wow. That sounds super racist. /s

Its even worse, they turn into PoCs!

Wntrlnd · January 10, 2022, 07:23:52 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 09, 2022, 09:17:14 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 09, 2022, 08:01:00 PMI was being sarcastic. I should have put some /s in there.
Then I apologize. The nature of prog arguments makes it very hard to distinguish satire from true belief.

It's called Poe's law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

tenbones · January 10, 2022, 12:13:09 PM

I checked with my agents in Libya, and so far the slave markets have not shown any decrease in sales, so thus far, Paizo's efforts have not affected the actual slave-trade.

I'll keep everyone notified of any changes or good deals I hear about.

BoxCrayonTales · January 10, 2022, 01:19:18 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 09, 2022, 09:40:45 PM
I guess you could interpret it as racist, if you were a paint-chip eating SJW.

Also, Second Darkness discusses what it takes for an elf to fall (and remember, as GM you don't even have to run the Second Darkness AP). Typically just being evil won't cut it. It has to be a betrayal of your very ideals -- something that would cause, in OSR terms, a full on alignment shift. There are plenty of evil elves in Golarion who haven't become drow.

It's very similar to a paladin falling from grace and becoming a blackguard.

Blackguards don't become literally black-skinned as a result of falling, tho. They wear black spiky outfits more for the cool factor than anything else.

Come to think of it, I suppose that in the world of White Man's Burden, D&D's elves are normally pointy-eared black african-featured, the drow were cursed with white skin (but still afro-featured), and SJWs complain about how racist this is against white people (and albinos and people with vitiligo) and that we need better white representation in fantasy. Also, orcs are a racist caricature of white people and other non-African indigenous peoples. Can you imagine?

Wrath of God · January 10, 2022, 05:21:19 PM

Sounds great BCT - write this setting, I'm gonna play hell in it.

BoxCrayonTales · January 10, 2022, 08:17:20 PM

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 10, 2022, 05:21:19 PM
Sounds great BCT - write this setting, I'm gonna play hell in it.

I'm not comfortable with writing a setting like that because it feels racist against white people. I get enough "whitey bad!" from watching the mainstream media.