So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
Outside of D&Done you mean?
I think it'd be a great idea in general, as it can only go wrong in the ways that we mostly already expect to look out for.
I recently hooked up with Joe Zieja's Voice Acting Academy on something of a whim. I'm fully rated through the military now (disability), so income isn't a problem anymore and I've been contemplating the development of a personal vision for my life (namely, my occupation). As I went through the course - definitely recommend it for anyone who is interested in the practicality of becoming a voice actor in today's world - I realized that I didn't have the same draw and drive that other, younger individuals did. I just didn't care as much about the process as many of them did because developing an income off of voice acting wasn't really a necessity.
A friend from the academy messaged me earlier today to check in on why I hadn't shown up lately (as I'd been very engaged in the early weeks of the course). As we talked the issue over, she suggested that I needed to find a reason that was personal and interesting to me to pursue the goal of becoming a trained voice actor. I realized at that moment that the first reason that popped into my head when I originally bought the course was, "Well, I'd like to master my voice so that I can be a more entertaining GM." I realized that if there was one thing I could spend my time doing as a career or hobby, it would be running a bunch of concurrent campaigns for different groups all throughout the week.
There are some significant soft and hard skills that go into being a GM. As most of us arguably approach it as hobbyists - nothing wrong with that, mind you - there's significantly different motivation and drive going into our performance and our preparations. A lot of GMs I've talked to abhor the idea of either charging for their services or being under the gun to provide a service to paying clientele. However, I believe that being a paid GM (heretofore "pGM") has some significant pros (beyond getting paid):
First, you have no choice but to hone your craft. If you don't, your reputation is going to stagnate and you're not going to ultimately keep anyone at your table that isn't inherently loyal to you in the first place. Some people may well function better under pressure or with a looming deadline - and there's some research out there to back that perspective up. Also, some people are driven to perform based on the appreciation of a job well done and well appreciated.
Second, in the process of honing your craft, you will (if you're taking it seriously as a job) begin to develop a good workflow. You'll develop the ability to better spend your time as you create assets, do prep work, and complete necessary pre-game tasks. You'll value the time you put into developing your GM portfolio of tools and assets, and craft strategies for maximizing the experience of each session you host.
Third, the increased revenue will not only allow you to attach some significant objective worth to what used to be just a favored pastime but will also allow you to invest more into the craft. If you're an in-person pGM, that might mean acquiring more physical tilesets, miniatures, books, dice, etc.; if you're a digital pGM, that might translate into more PDFs, better streaming devices, a better microphone, or digital assets.
I deeply believe that there's a lot of potential to pGMing. I don't know if you can realistically make a living off of it unless you live in an incredibly low cost-of-living area and you are able to keep a very consistent workload, but if you aren't hurting for income then I think it's a fine option. I use StartPlaying (https://startplaying.games/) as an initial metric: newbie pGMs are charging a pittance of $5-$10 per player per session, but some of the pGMs that boast higher reputations or are running more popular modules (like Kingmaker) are going for $25/player per session and up.
It definitely provides an incentive for people to show up to a session they've paid for instead of bailing last minute for dumb things.
A friend/former coworker is paying me to DM for his son and two other kids. He doesn't know how to run anything himself so he came to me and asked if I'd do it. I figured we can do a mini campaign of six sessions or so to see how it goes.
If I thought I could make a living GMing I don't know that I'd try to go that route, but you do have to admit that being paid to do what basically amounts to collaborative storytelling would be pretty sweet. Assuming you don't get stuck with any woke players. That would be worse than being in Hell.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on March 10, 2023, 10:55:01 PM
Assuming you don't get stuck with any woke players. That would be worse than being in Hell.
You'd almost certainly develop a comprehensive application and vetting system. I'd also personally spend extra time on a free "session zero" just to make sure everyone is gonna work out.
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
Like most of my hobbies, I'd hate to turn it into a job.
It's a cancer. DMing is fun, it's like paying someone to play with you. Kinda sad
My gut reaction is the same as Ocule's, but I suppose it's worth reserving some judgment. Personally, I cannot imagine a circumstance where I would pay someone to DM for me. Like Ocule says, you shouldn't have to pay someone to play a game with you.
However, I can conceive of a hypothetical situation where I might opt for being a paid DM. I play exclusively on VTT these days, which largely means playing with strangers (though if you play with someone for any length of time, they should stop being a stranger). So far, I've been blessed with very good players. They show up reliably, learn the rules, engage with the game, and behave themselves with other players. That's how the game is supposed to work. A group of people giving more or less even commitments to enjoy the game and keep it going. Under those circumstances, I would never charge. The way I see it, I owe as much to my players as they do to me.
But if I had the opposite experience, if all I could get was shiftless layabouts that constantly skipped games, didn't pay attention, and acted out, I could imagine myself going the paid route, just to get more invested players. Admittedly though, I'd be more likely to keep looking for better players or just stop playing entirely.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on March 10, 2023, 10:55:01 PM
A friend/former coworker is paying me to DM for his son and two other kids.
Yeah, that's the thing: it's not necessarily the players who are paying the DM.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 11, 2023, 12:01:13 AM
Like most of my hobbies, I'd hate to turn it into a job.
Yes, but ... I've managed a few times to turn my job into a hobby, by selling RPG time to my employers as a team-building and creative thinking exercise. We played weekly sessions on company time.
Well, there are no men dressed as women performing sex shows in front of kids so I'm okay with the free market choosing the fate of paid DM'g.
Having said that, it seems really stupid to me. The point of the game is to have fun with friends.
Plus, if somebody is thinking they will get to live out their critical role fantasy for $25 they are in for a surprise.
Quote from: Ocule on March 11, 2023, 04:08:48 AM
It's a cancer. DMing is fun, it's like paying someone to play with you. Kinda sad
We're all adults now, the playground is too small and time is money, especially if you already have a good reputation for running games and need some extra cash.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 11, 2023, 12:01:13 AM
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
Like most of my hobbies, I'd hate to turn it into a job.
There's no reason to believe that you'd have to charge for every group or every player all the time. If you get players from it that you really like out of some sessions there's no reason not to invite them to your private games free of charge. Good roleplayers with commitment and energy with good chemistry being rewarded. In that sense your "job" games and your "hobby" games could have some other degree of quality control involved that can suit your schedule, workload, and depth.
Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 10, 2023, 11:45:13 PM
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on March 10, 2023, 10:55:01 PM
Assuming you don't get stuck with any woke players. That would be worse than being in Hell.
You'd almost certainly develop a comprehensive application and vetting system. I'd also personally spend extra time on a free "session zero" just to make sure everyone is gonna work out.
You can run a few more levels beyond S-0 (first to third, or at most fifth?) if you set up a digital tip jar as a means to rate the session. You'd get the point of the game and your own skills across better and see who wants to stick around for more serious commitment. It's also easier to know who to prioritize slots for in subsequent trial games like that if they have a history of tipping you can refer to and it's a lower barrier to entry.
If you have the knack for it (and the inclination) live streaming your games would be a great next step that you could set-up a Patreon for, though that is definitely not for everybody.
Quote from: Dispotatic254 on March 11, 2023, 10:18:19 AM
You can run a few more levels beyond S-0 (first to third, or at most fifth?) if you set up a digital tip jar as a means to rate the session. You'd get the point of the game and your own skills across better and see who wants to stick around for more serious commitment. It's also easier to know who to prioritize slots for in subsequent trial games like that if they have a history of tipping you can refer to and it's a lower barrier to entry.
If pGMing is going to be a thing, it needs to take a very long, healthy step away from being operated entirely as a hobby-for-fun. It will have many of the elements of gig work, and as such the pGM should view themselves not only as a GM, but as a contractor.
When you're getting your feet wet, yeah, I can see being more lenient or pliable with your fees. However, the industry seems to be settling into a certain going rate, and whatever rate you feel comfortable with needs to be consistently applied -
especially in public games. The phrase "start as you mean to go on" applies well here, and if you don't at the onset establish the equitable exchange - your services for their dosh - then gradually working it in isn't likely to cut it. Once the sessions start in earnest, cash and dice hit the table at the same time. If you're going to do a job, any job, being shy about the payment structure isn't going to work.
I'm not jumping on your neck here, I get what you meant and where you were coming from, but I really believe that pGMing needs to be approached like any other paying gig.
There are a
lot of prospective paying players. StartPlaying is just one platform that emphasizes this. Paying for a pGM might seem like anathema to a lot of people here, but there's a demand out there and it's growing. I believe that worry about finding serious, invested, paying players is misplaced.
Quote
If you have the knack for it (and the inclination) live streaming your games would be a great next step that you could set-up a Patreon for, though that is definitely not for everybody.
I'd probably reserve this for your private gaming group, but I think that goes without saying. It takes significant effort and time to build a following, but there
is the demographic out there that cut their gaming teeth on the likes of Critical Role, and if you manage to tap into that, it'd likely turn a tidy profit on the social media side.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D--VueSckOc/TeHHNm0KdoI/AAAAAAAAMKU/bMvr6Fvd5m8/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/the-toy-movie-poster-1982-1020235505.jpg)
If people can grift 25 bucks per head for an hour then good for them (but I wouldn't do it myself unless it was for a charity). If you pay to play you are pretty silly considering you can get it for free.
Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 11, 2023, 11:50:07 AM
If pGMing is going to be a thing, it needs to take a very long, healthy step away from being operated entirely as a hobby-for-fun. It will have many of the elements of gig work, and as such the pGM should view themselves not only as a GM, but as a contractor.
When you're getting your feet wet, yeah, I can see being more lenient or pliable with your fees. However, the industry seems to be settling into a certain going rate, and whatever rate you feel comfortable with needs to be consistently applied - especially in public games. The phrase "start as you mean to go on" applies well here, and if you don't at the onset establish the equitable exchange - your services for their dosh - then gradually working it in isn't likely to cut it. Once the sessions start in earnest, cash and dice hit the table at the same time. If you're going to do a job, any job, being shy about the payment structure isn't going to work.
I can see where that's going: Mass table quit when you raise your fees and then you start over again. Trying to build something like Critical Role from the bottom up from scratch will be absolutely impossible and will require some other backing, and that's the kind of dotted line you put your soul on. Maybe a vigorous leap backwards is in order.
Quote from: Zalman on March 11, 2023, 08:48:06 AM
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on March 10, 2023, 10:55:01 PM
A friend/former coworker is paying me to DM for his son and two other kids.
Yeah, that's the thing: it's not necessarily the players who are paying the DM.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 11, 2023, 12:01:13 AM
Like most of my hobbies, I'd hate to turn it into a job.
Yes, but ... I've managed a few times to turn my job into a hobby, by selling RPG time to my employers as a team-building and creative thinking exercise. We played weekly sessions on company time.
Sure. If someone else has the mental bandwith, more power to 'em. It's just not an idea that appeals to me, personally.
I think it's strange but I get it. Maybe they want to play with their friends but don't have a willing DM. Maybe the DM would rather get paid than put in all the effort for free. Given that there are way more players than DMs, it makes sense.
I'll also speculate a bit- a lot of the stuff I've seen is 5ed players looking for a DM. Maybe there's a reason why that system in particular has such a skewed ratio? It only takes a brief glance at reddit to see some players who get real mad if the DM "bans" the splatbook nonsense. Sure, some people will defend a DM doing that, but others will be on the attack, and honestly, the position some few of them have is totally indefensible. I'd probably have to be pulling a paycheck to run a game for some of their bullshit, is all I'm sayin.
I can see the market, especially among older professionals who value time over money. I certainly know people who would happily pay a great GM to run a monthly kickass session with all the bells & whistles and $100 for 4 friends for 4 hours of gaming would be nothing for them. But the GM would have to be impressive.
And when you break down $25 per player per session, assuming 4 hour game, that's $12.50 for 2 hours - aka a movie ticket. So if you and your 3 buddies went to 2 movies, that's $100 and I'd certainly rather 4 hours of a great game vs. 2 Hollyweird wokecrap movies.
I doubt many can pay their rent via GMing, but some might make some extra beer money doing what they enjoy which is fine.
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
So this is a serious thing and you can find paid GMs all over
https://startplaying.games/
i.e.
https://startplaying.games/game/welcome-to-drakkenheim-an-introduction-to-a-new-dd-setting
10-20 years ago it was largely urban legend and considered a joke. On The Big Purple, I remember a post around that time about a corporate trainer who did D&D all day as a job, seriously, to build team cohesion.
People posting about being paid for it were generally laughed at. It seems especially with COVID and all the online options now, it's much more of a thing.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 12, 2023, 05:20:19 AM
I can see the market, especially among older professionals who value time over money. I certainly know people who would happily pay a great GM to run a monthly kickass session with all the bells & whistles and $100 for 4 friends for 4 hours of gaming would be nothing for them. But the GM would have to be impressive.
And when you break down $25 per player per session, assuming 4 hour game, that's $12.50 for 2 hours - aka a movie ticket. So if you and your 3 buddies went to 2 movies, that's $100 and I'd certainly rather 4 hours of a great game vs. 2 Hollyweird wokecrap movies.
I doubt many can pay their rent via GMing, but some might make some extra beer money doing what they enjoy which is fine.
It's not for everyone, but it's certainly a viable side gig if you're retired, disabled, or otherwise have stable income. Like, I'm a disabled veteran and money isn't a problem, so if I were to go on StartPlaying and schedule a 4-hour recurrent gig for every day of the weekday, I'd be pretty stoked because it would be something I legitimately enjoy *and* feel validated because I was paid a cash value for it - because people were
willing to pay for it.
I'd start with one session a week at first. I'd focus on learning exactly what kind of prep would be necessary for the kind of campaign I'd be running. Once I had the workflow down and a few sessions under my belt, I'd open up slots for additional days until I hit a comfortable peak workload.
An extra $3-400 a week wouldn't be bad, and I'd be doing what I love anyway.
Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 12, 2023, 02:10:04 PMAn extra $3-400 a week wouldn't be bad, and I'd be doing what I love anyway.
Once you're doing it for pay, you work for the players. You'll find yourself running things differently to how you would for fun, maybe putting up with shit at the table you normally wouldn't. Sure you can pick and choose clients, but then the jobs will dry up.
Mostly when I see paid GM's it's connected to Millennial weirdos with poor people skills, and a lot of expectations. A lot of them essentially want a trained monkey.
The Grognards paying for a kickass GM is like finding a unicorn, not the standard. The standard is running a bland adventure with silly voices, for a bunch of snowflakes running homebrew animal-kin.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 12, 2023, 05:20:19 AM
I can see the market, especially among older professionals who value time over money. I certainly know people who would happily pay a great GM to run a monthly kickass session with all the bells & whistles and $100 for 4 friends for 4 hours of gaming would be nothing for them. But the GM would have to be impressive.
And when you break down $25 per player per session, assuming 4 hour game, that's $12.50 for 2 hours - aka a movie ticket. So if you and your 3 buddies went to 2 movies, that's $100 and I'd certainly rather 4 hours of a great game vs. 2 Hollyweird wokecrap movies.
I doubt many can pay their rent via GMing, but some might make some extra beer money doing what they enjoy which is fine.
Greetings!
I saw some hottie chick online that farted in jars and sold them for $30 per jar. She made--according to the commentator who did the video about her, $50K in her first month *alone*
There was some other Thottie that sold her *BATHWATER* for $29.99 per bottle. She made hundreds of thousands of dollars, *snap* like that! Fucking mind-boggling incredible.
I'd wager those women made far more than "Beer Money"!!! *Laughing* Insane, I know, brother!
I agree though. Let someone try and make a buck from being a Paid DM.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Grognard GM on March 12, 2023, 06:53:42 PM
Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 12, 2023, 02:10:04 PMAn extra $3-400 a week wouldn't be bad, and I'd be doing what I love anyway.
Once you're doing it for pay, you work for the players. You'll find yourself running things differently to how you would for fun, maybe putting up with shit at the table you normally wouldn't. Sure you can pick and choose clients, but then the jobs will dry up.
Mostly when I see paid GM's it's connected to Millennial weirdos with poor people skills, and a lot of expectations. A lot of them essentially want a trained monkey.
The Grognards paying for a kickass GM is like finding a unicorn, not the standard. The standard is running a bland adventure with silly voices, for a bunch of snowflakes running homebrew animal-kin.
I'm not arguing with you, but I personally do not have any experience one way or the other with the pGM community as a whole - on either side of the screen. Everything I'm putting forward is currently conjecture.
It'd be great if I was able to interview some pGMs that interact regularly with the community to see what trends and what the typical paying player is looking for.
I'm being paid to GM a game of Old School Essentials for a group of 8 10-16 year olds. It's actually really fun. And they're a great group. At the end of the day there are always going to be people who bitch and moan it's not worth it. But I don't actually have enough income to justify the work and time I normally put into being a DM for free. GMing can be fun. But it is work. And it's thankless. You got to be a designer, performer, therapist, social worker, and judge all in one. For people who aren't always great at interpersonal relationships. I can justify putting a lot more work into what I'm doing if I'm getting paid for my time. I also really enjoy it.
Quote from: Grognard GM on March 12, 2023, 06:53:42 PM
Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 12, 2023, 02:10:04 PMAn extra $3-400 a week wouldn't be bad, and I'd be doing what I love anyway.
Once you're doing it for pay, you work for the players. You'll find yourself running things differently to how you would for fun, maybe putting up with shit at the table you normally wouldn't. Sure you can pick and choose clients, but then the jobs will dry up.
Mostly when I see paid GM's it's connected to Millennial weirdos with poor people skills, and a lot of expectations. A lot of them essentially want a trained monkey.
The Grognards paying for a kickass GM is like finding a unicorn, not the standard. The standard is running a bland adventure with silly voices, for a bunch of snowflakes running homebrew animal-kin.
Nope my group are kids and I'm still basically running what I'd normally run. In fact the kids constantly demand I make things harder and have more death. They are very bloodthirsty and crave more grognard stuff. Which is nice. And I've been recommended to an older group looking to run OSRIC. So I'm the unicorn. I think I'm really starting to get people out of the 5E rut which is just magical for me. At the end of the day as a paid GM you set your expectations for the group and communicate the kinds of games you want to run. If there's a market and you have a good rep, you will find games. And people will be happy to pay.
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
Paying for a DM is money wasted.
Quote from: King Tyranno on March 12, 2023, 10:44:35 PM
GMing can be fun. But it is work. And it's thankless. You got to be a designer, performer, therapist, social worker, and judge all in one. For people who aren't always great at interpersonal relationships. I can justify putting a lot more work into what I'm doing if I'm getting paid for my time.
You're not GMing though. That's the problem.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on March 12, 2023, 11:54:15 PM
Quote from: King Tyranno on March 12, 2023, 10:44:35 PM
GMing can be fun. But it is work. And it's thankless. You got to be a designer, performer, therapist, social worker, and judge all in one. For people who aren't always great at interpersonal relationships. I can justify putting a lot more work into what I'm doing if I'm getting paid for my time.
You're not GMing though. That's the problem.
If you're going to say that it would help if you defined what GMing is in your mind. I didn't realize running games for people somehow wasn't GMing but I'm sure you'll set me right.
Quote from: Iron_Rain on March 12, 2023, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
So this is a serious thing and you can find paid GMs all over
https://startplaying.games/
i.e.
https://startplaying.games/game/welcome-to-drakkenheim-an-introduction-to-a-new-dd-setting
10-20 years ago it was largely urban legend and considered a joke. On The Big Purple, I remember a post around that time about a corporate trainer who did D&D all day as a job, seriously, to build team cohesion.
People posting about being paid for it were generally laughed at. It seems especially with COVID and all the online options now, it's much more of a thing.
I also noticed that on Roll20: The number of paid GMs has increased enormously. I can only hope that GMing doesn't become an officially recognized profession in the EU, so that you need a certificate to run a game. (Still a joke now, but the EU is known for doing pretty crazy things).
Paying for a GM sounds a lot like paying for porn. It's free if you know where to look, but for some reason people still dole out the money. I understand having the market for younger players just getting into the hobby (where the parents who can't be bothered just hire someone instead), but for older kids and *gasp* adults, it boggles my mind. If you can flesh out a character and give it depth and nuance, you can be a GM. It's essentially the same thing, just applied on a macro scale.
But I disgress. Hey, if you make a gig out of it and get paid $25 buck per head per session, good on you. It seems there's no lack of simps out there willing to buy your bathwater and jarred farts. I'm just not one of them.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 11, 2023, 12:01:13 AM
Quote from: Ravenshire on March 10, 2023, 10:01:40 PM
So I've noticed a bunch of posts on several of the big Facebook rpg groups of DMs running ads for their games, usually like $25 a session. What is everyone's thoughts on paid DMing?
Like most of my hobbies, I'd hate to turn it into a job.
this. personally, i'd never do anything i really like for a living (provided there were other options).
This is a topic I personally I have though over the years and here are my two cents:
1) There is a market for it. If there were not, there would be no professional GM´s around.
There are likely ton of people who would want to play but don´t have a group to play with. Either because having moved to a place where they
don´t know "anyone" who plays. Some might have a group but they are not satisfied with it due to the chosen game, GM, players or what-not.
And as mentioned before, people who have the cash might not have the time/energy to read the material and do the prepping.
Lastly, a pro is a pro, people like to buy quality, no matter the cost.
2) GM Burnout.
I am sure some will never experience it, though gamemastering well, like any creative process takes an effort and can be exhausting in a long run, especially with tight frequency and if the game is more than just dungeon delving which can be done with little to no prep involved. In the end, the basic rules of business are that when the supply and demand meet, that´s the sweet spot. What this will likely mean is that you will end up making compromises to cater to the tastes of your clientele and it might not be enjoyable for extended periods of time. What I would do is that in the "sales pitch" on the freelancer site, I would describe what kind of game/characters/campaigns/adventures I want to run so that I would not end up running something
I dislike.
3) Asshole customers.
If the freelance site you are using has a rating system, you will encounter some interesting situations when the customers are not satisfied with either you or what you have to offer. This in turn will affect your future prospects as a pro GM. Some might not leave a shitty remark of you, some surely will, it´s inevitable. To minimize this, I would vet the player group to make sure whom I am playing with. You are free to choose your customers after all.
4) Customer retention
To make money on a regular basis, you likely need as many repeat customers as possible to handle. What I would do is that I would come up with some kind of program to incentivize "buying from you". Every 10th time free of charge or what not. That is just an example and a simplistic one at that, but there sure are million ways to do it.
These are just my thoughts, you are not me and I am not you. Some of these you might encounter, some you might not, though before you jump on it, coming up with a business plan of sorts might help you in a long run and lessens nasty surprises. You also might want to make an exit plan if/when you start disliking what you are doing.
All the best and my respects if you decide to go for it!
Quote from: Rhymer88 on March 13, 2023, 02:25:26 AM
I also noticed that on Roll20: The number of paid GMs has increased enormously. I can only hope that GMing doesn't become an officially recognized profession in the EU, so that you need a certificate to run a game. (Still a joke now, but the EU is known for doing pretty crazy things).
I am wondering if the market is going to get so flooded with PaidGM's that people will start not being able to make a living because there will be so many options and players will go for the cheaper option.
I DM/GM For free and would never do it for play. I have been gaming for a long time and that's never been what this hobby is about.
Quote from: GhostNinja on March 13, 2023, 11:01:50 AM
I am wondering if the market is going to get so flooded with PaidGM's that people will start not being able to make a living because there will be so many options and players will go for the cheaper option.
Horray for the free market!
I had typed out a long, very vitriolic post. Deleted it. Don't need that much hatred. So I'll give my toned down, abridged thoughts.
But I do hate this. It's not what the hobby is about - and it's a hobby, to me. Something I do with friends, or to meet friends. I'll never pay for a GM, I'll never accept payment to GM. On either side of the screen, that would ruin the social dynamic of the situation for me. Completely ruin it. I'd stop gaming before then.
About the farthest I'll stretch is small thing, like tables that have a "GM doesn't pay for their pizza" rule. I don't even do that - hell, as GM, I tend to be the one providing food, I love to cook and I use my players as an outlet for my chef-y aspiration. Or "table dues", where everyone contributes a couple bucks a week to a pool that is then used to buy sodas and snacks. Again, that's fine. But only small, basically communal/social expenses. Although given the current economy I suppose we'd have to up that to a fiver, but still. Not an actual fee for the gaming.
The one bit of vitriol I'll actually let slip is that I detest the "time is money" mindset. I understand the thinking, but I disagree with the over-application of it. I don't expect Games Workshop to pay me to play Warhammer, or some divinity to pay me for going camping, or something. If you want to turn roleplaying into a career, fine, I suppose, but I don't. Then I'd have to find a different hobby. And then I'd just have to figure out how to monetize that, I suppose, so it would be a never-ending loop.
Quote from: Effete on March 13, 2023, 11:15:28 AM
Horray for the free market!
I already see on that paid GM site someone posted more than a few games with no takers so I am sure there will be some people who will take up the offer by people who are in an area where they don't where to find gamers or sadly smaller areas where there aren't any gamers.
Otherwise I am sure the majority of people will go with the free options.
I have a feeling people have already made their minds up on this subject but I'm going to talk about my experiences as a paid GM.
I've been playing PnP games on and off for over 15 years and met all kinds of gamers. I like being a paid GM. Others may not find it to their taste but I think being a paid GM actually has several advantages over what I was doing before. Also let me preface this by saying I don't use the websites for finding paid games. I find them a bit suspect. Every paid game I've done has been through word of mouth after my first game with my group of kids. They are all IRL games too.
1. You can actually have a particular type of game: Players aren't looking for you to run generic fantasy murderhobo stuff they don't actually care about. You actually have to have your own style that people are looking for. And also be good enough at being a GM that people want to keep coming. Generally either you communicate what you're running, they like it and pay you. Or they don't and move on. Or they're specifically paying you for something they want. No confusion, no quibbling over rules, or interpretations of errata and house rules by reality shows pretending to be DnD. They paid money FOR YOU. and everyone understands what they want out of the game and you as the GM. You could say this can happen even without getting paid. But it's been my experience that this is rarely the case. People are less invested, care less, and make stupid demands that ruin games. This leads to point number 2
2. Having a financial stake in a campaign retards retardation. Players are way less likely to derail or otherwise troll the game when they know they're going to waste money doing so. If they're paying you it's because they WANT you to GM and they WANT you to give them a good experience. Players are polite, engaged and respectful.
3. The GM is actually trusted to run a good game. If they weren't they wouldn't be getting paid.
4. I can justify getting more expensive books, materials and effects for my games. I ran a CoC game for people with lights, smoke effects, audio and more. I wouldn't have been able to justify spending the money on that with my current income if I did those games for free. But having the supplemental income actually made my games better, which in turn leads to more players. And I now do a fortnightly CoC game with ARG elements.
5. Most importantly I can justify putting time and effort into GMing that due to my work schedule and need for income I would not have been able to.
I love GMing, making new words, characters, scenarios, dungeons and all that stuff. And seeing how players react to it and overcome what I've designed. That's always been very rewarding. But if I have to chose between the thing that pays bills and the hobby I have to be responsible and choose the thing that pays the bills. Others have the luxury of being able to devote significant amount of free time to their hobbies due to their livelyhoods. Well done. I can't take that from you. If you don't like or want paid GMs that's fine. But if there wasn't a market for it I wouldn't get paid. And if I wasn't very good at it I wouldn't have gotten busy with it like I have. I'm actually having to turn people away now because I have three full groups of between 6-8 people. Two over 16 groups and 1 group of kids. And we all have fun.
tl:dr
I like getting paid for work
It's an academic question for me. I've been down the road before of turning a hobby into a paying gig, and every time it worked out the same way: It ruined the hobby for me. That's because the whole "being professional" about paying gigs is something I take seriously, and my hobbies are there in part to give me a break from that dynamic.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy my day job, and I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it at all. However, it's a different kind of enjoyment than hobbies give me.
So I can see how the thing would be different for other people. Some people are just "driven" to do X. If you are that way, you might as well get paid for it, if you can. I go to work to work and when I play, I play. I'm not usually driven to do anything, and I've got a wide variety of interests. That's an attitude that doesn't really map to being paid to do a hobby, because when someone is paying you, they are calling at least some of the shots.
Quote from: King Tyranno on March 13, 2023, 12:03:54 PM
2. Having a financial stake in a campaign retards retardation. Players are way less likely to derail or otherwise troll the game when they know they're going to waste money doing so. If they're paying you it's because they WANT you to GM and they WANT you to give them a good experience. Players are polite, engaged and respectful.
Just don't play with assholes. You don't have to pay money to not be an asshole.
Quote from: King Tyranno on March 13, 2023, 12:03:54 PM3. The GM is actually trusted to run a good game. If they weren't they wouldn't be getting paid.
... Implying you've never paid money and not felt you got your money's worth?
Quote from: King Tyranno on March 13, 2023, 12:03:54 PM4. I can justify getting more expensive books, materials and effects for my games. I ran a CoC game for people with lights, smoke effects, audio and more. I wouldn't have been able to justify spending the money on that with my current income if I did those games for free. But having the supplemental income actually made my games better, which in turn leads to more players. And I now do a fortnightly CoC game with ARG elements.
Shit, I don't even
want shit like that. If the GM needs a smoke machine and a strobe light to immerse me in the game,
I'm not immersed in the game. If I am, it's just an annoying distraction.