Re: Planescape - I know someone who ran a very successful Planescape campaign using, I shit you not, a mildly retooled version of the oWoD Mage system.

It worked because Mage factions and Planescape factions are basically built on the same idea: they're "philosophers with clubs" who try to impose their own way of looking at things on the universe.

(This, incidentally, is why I always thought it odd that Planescape was tied so closely to the AD&D alignment system. I mean, I know the historical reasons why that was the case. But doesn't that arrangement imply the existence of a very powerful faction who view the cosmos as being arranged on the two-axis setup? Where's the scope for factions who flat out don't believe in Law and Chaos or Good and Evil but believe reality should be arranged along entirely different lines?)

Good points, Warthur.

Indeed, Mage seems a nice fit for Planescape because of the shared "Philosophers with clubs" theme.

About the cosmology, I also agree. Even if the setting does present different takes on the Law vs Chaos/Great Wheel (Ex: chinese culture and gods see it as a single infinite plane) its not really plausible for the more cosmopolitan city in the multiverse to have only one dominant cosmology model. There should even exist whole factions that reject the model.

Another thing I think the setting lacks is actual religions. I know the Factions are religions in a way, but I would like to see more dogmas, rituals and particular myths of theirs. Factol Manifesto introduces some of these points, but the thing looks kind of sketchy there. Besides it, I would like to see new and bizarre religions, beliefs and cultures that spawned in the planes, but sadly the line focus more on "what monsters you will find in xth layer of that plane" than that.

I think I would like to see a kind of "Tekumelized/Gloranthized" Planescape. Not to the point of turning it in a anthropological masturbation like what happened to Gltha some time ago, but just enough to realize its inate potential for gonzo mindfucking fantasy roleplaying.

P.S:The Torment game for PC is a nice example of what Im talking. They managed to introduce a lot of colour of their own creation, that enrich this social-cultural-religious tapestry greatly (in fact, I think the setting as portrayed in the PC game is even better than the original setting itself ).

Quote from: RPGPundit;631875It seems silly to me to think that Planescape needs to be run with some kind of (usually pretentious) system to be "right", when the very core of the setting is inextricably tied to the cosmology that D&D created for itself, that only makes sense in the context of D&D.

RPGPundit

Only the setting, not the system.

Quote from: TristramEvans;632653Only the setting, not the system.

Sure.. but the system is D&D.

Do you see what I mean? Any other system won't capture the feel of playing on the D&D planes.

RPGPundit

1. Greyhawk
A. Darlene's Map
B. Lots of modules tied specifically into setting locations and deities, not just "dropped in anywhere" stuff.
C. Isle of the Ape.  Oonga was an engine of player destruction.

2. Forgotten Realms
A. Greybox
B. The North
C. All those maps in the supplements.

3. Known World
A. Gazetteers for damn near everything.
B. Some of the coolest sandbox setting modules.
C. Guess what, maps of the whole damn thing, frickin awesome.

Quote from: RPGPundit;632870Sure.. but the system is D&D.

Do you see what I mean? Any other system won't capture the feel of playing on the D&D planes.

No, I don't see your reasoning there at all. The setting isn't informed by the rules-set (if its an RPG and not a game that tries to railroad a certain style of play), the rules are simply there to figure out the consequences of actions. The setting itself and the gaming group "capture the feel", as it were.

Quote from: RPGPundit;632870Sure.. but the system is D&D.

Do you see what I mean? Any other system won't capture the feel of playing on the D&D planes.

On the other hand, the core assumptions of the setting itself doesn't really support the classic D&D planes model - like I said earlier, you should really expect the planes to utterly rearrange themselves whenever a Faction that teaches against the Law/Chaos Good/Evil breakdown manages to get the upper hand.

Quote from: Warthur;632945On the other hand, the core assumptions of the setting itself doesn't really support the classic D&D planes model - like I said earlier, you should really expect the planes to utterly rearrange themselves whenever a Faction that teaches against the Law/Chaos Good/Evil breakdown manages to get the upper hand.

Yeah, well, entering the purely speculative; I'd say that if you wanted to effectively make a new "planescape" game that had a non-D&D system and also divorced itself from the D&D concept, you'd have to keep Sigil and the factions (and stuff like the art style and the stupid lingo), and change all of the outer planes and great-wheel cosmology.

In other words, get rid of everything that's actually D&D and just keep the stuff that sucked.

But I guess that's the secret of the rabid planescape-specific fans (as opposed to overall fans of the D&D outer planes); they don't really like D&D at all, and would probably rather that Planescape had been a White Wolf game with no D&D content, as that's what it was clearly influenced by at the time (what with TSR being intellectually bankrupt of any originality of their own by then).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;633323Yeah, well, entering the purely speculative; I'd say that if you wanted to effectively make a new "planescape" game that had a non-D&D system and also divorced itself from the D&D concept, you'd have to keep Sigil and the factions (and stuff like the art style and the stupid lingo), and change all of the outer planes and great-wheel cosmology.

Or you could keep the outer planes and great wheel cosmology as it is and simply use another system.

QuoteBut I guess that's the secret of the rabid planescape-specific fans (as opposed to overall fans of the D&D outer planes); they don't really like D&D at all, and would probably rather that Planescape had been a White Wolf game with no D&D content, as that's what it was clearly influenced by at the time (what with TSR being intellectually bankrupt of any originality of their own by then).

lol, so liking a D&D setting you didn't like is obviously another "conspiracy" for people who hate D&D. It's really hard to take you seriously sometimes.

Quote from: Piestrio;632579

Anyone who thinks Planescape has anything to do with philosophy has obviously no knowledge of philosophy.

Quote from: TristramEvans;633583Anyone who thinks Planescape has anything to do with philosophy has obviously no knowledge of philosophy.

That aptly describes both most Planescape fans and undergrad philosophy majors.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;634001That aptly describes both most Planescape fans and undergrad philosophy majors.

You've had very different experiences than I. every Planescape fan I've encountered  are just classic old school D&Ders with no interest in conflating academic subjects with gaming.

Quote from: TristramEvans;634351You've had very different experiences than I. every Planescape fan I've encountered  are just classic old school D&Ders with no interest in conflating academic subjects with gaming.

Same here. Classic Pundejo strawman, I don't even bother anymore. Though to be fair Piestrio did bring it up first.