Quote from: Marleycat;758405They're ignoring the bigger picture because it's gotten down to "where was the spot that Bad WotC touched you?".

I think Id need a couple of dolls for that one... :eek:

aheh.

That is part of the problem. WOTC is fully capable of screwing things up on an epic level. And some of the stuff Dance, Mearls and one or two staff from WOTC have stated has not been exactly heartening. But not totally put-off-ish either.

And the OP makes me glad I missed all the OSR crazyness. Reminds me of certain toy or board game collectors who are into making their own versions of said items and then extolling how their vision is so much purer than yours.

Quote from: Marleycat;758426Actually that would be 4 corebooks.

1. Players Handbook
2. Dungeon Master Guide
3. Monster Manual
4. Unearthed Arcana

Every last one is considered core by the overwhelming majority of 1e players let alone 2e players like myself who literally straight ported 1e stuff into our games.

No no no! Its PHB, DMG, MM, and Deities & Demigods! Yeesh, get it right kids!

Quote from: JeremyR;758452He was the guy that had the Grognardia blog. Which I never really read (I only came back to gaming after the 5e announcement, after burning out on 3.x) and is now perhaps best known for the ill-fated Dwimmermount Kickstarter (which is actually almost done, amazingly enough, only 2 years late)

Thanks, now it get the deal about Dwimmermount. And his view. Just to let you know I am probably younger then you despite playing most the same editions.

Quote from: Omega;758457No no no! Its PHB, DMG, MM, and Deities & Demigods! Yeesh, get it right kids!

Dammit!!!:) I totally forgot the 1st print Deities and Demigods. That book is mythical to me and mine. I heard about it but never ACTUALLY saw it.

Quote from: Omega;758456And the OP makes me glad I missed all the OSR crazyness.

I think 'all the OSR crazyness' is kind of overblowing it... nothing like the 'edition wars.' Certain folks did try to surf the wave and puff themselves up over it... claiming vague credentials of having 'been there.'
Kind of like Pundit is doing with his involvement with 5e.

Quote from: Marleycat;758426Actually that would be 4 corebooks.

1. Players Handbook
2. Dungeon Master Guide
3. Monster Manual
4. Unearthed Arcana

Every last one is considered core by the overwhelming majority of 1e players let alone 2e players like myself who literally straight ported 1e stuff into our games.

I have to disagree.  I still play 1e today, and have all these years.  No one I've met considers UA core any more than they consider OA core.  In fact, most 1e players I know spit upon UA

Quote from: Sacrosanct;758468I have to disagree.  I still play 1e today, and have all these years.  No one I've met considers UA core any more than they consider OA core.  In fact, most 1e players I know spit upon UA

well I don't consider MM core.
It's just a catalogue of possible monster types and adds no rules to the game.
If you really want the monster stat details they are at the back of the DMG anyway although I would be more likely to create my own monsters just because its easier and I could find better monster artwork in books or comics 90% of the time.

(shrug)  If Pundit didn't coin it, someone would've.  The capacity of our hobby to label, stigmatize and demonize Those Who Oppose Us is great.  After all, why go to all the trouble of staking out and defending a position when you can just point an accusing finger and shriek "OSR Taliban!  OSR TALIBAN!  OSR TALIBAAAAAN!!!  And hey ... if you need to feel a sense of persecution, it's easy -- just conflate someone's statement of "I like to play games of this style, and games of other styles are boring" with "OMG he thinks that all the other games should be set on fire and the publishers should be castrated!  With mallets!"

(It really does seem, from the shrieking, that all sides in edition wars debates play by such rules.)

Quote from: Marleycat;758426Actually that would be 4 corebooks.

1. Players Handbook
2. Dungeon Master Guide
3. Monster Manual
4. Unearthed Arcana

Every last one is considered core by the overwhelming majority of 1e players let alone 2e players like myself who literally straight ported 1e stuff into our games.

I don't use Unearthed Arcana. There has been some polling on Dragonsfoot which indicates that the majority of DMs there don't use it, and relatively few treat the whole thing as a core book - unsurprising since it is a book of add-ons that mostly appeared as Dragon articles. The majority of 1e DMs generally may use it, I don't know, but I don't think it's considered 'core' by an overwhelming majority. If you'd asked me I'd have said 'core' was PHB-DMG-MM, for 1e, 2e*, and 3e. And presumably 5e. (4e deliberately held back a lot of widely-regarded-as-core stuff from the 4e PHB & 4e MM, it appears in 4e PHB2 and MM2, but core isn't really a clear concept in 4e.)

*Monstrous instead of Monster Manual for 2e.

Quote from: jibbajibba;758477well I don't consider MM core.
It's just a catalogue of possible monster types and adds no rules to the game.
If you really want the monster stat details they are at the back of the DMG anyway although I would be more likely to create my own monsters just because its easier and I could find better monster artwork in books or comics 90% of the time.

Youve obviously never read the MM then. It tends to lay out the abilities of each monster in detail.

The back of the DMG is just stat blocks with no description and some powers not even listed for monsters. Useful for quick reference. Otherwise useless.

Quote from: Omega;758493Youve obviously never read the MM then. It tends to lay out the abilities of each monster in detail.

The back of the DMG is just stat blocks with no description and some powers not even listed for monsters. Useful for quick reference. Otherwise useless.

No I have read it in detail.

I am quite capable of creating a range a of monsters with interesting abilities and feel no need to use the monsters made up by other folks any more than I feel the need to use their NPCs.

I never said that I haven't used MM (or indeed FF and MM2) merely that they are not core as in you don't need to have them to play. You will find it impossible to play D&D without the DMG - for the combat tables and saves (until you memorise them of course) and practically impossible without the PHB for class descriptors and spells and weapons. You could create your own classes and spells of course but i feel that takes you beyond creative tweak and is somewhat more involved that statting up a Boggart as a 1/2 HD creature with a blink ability that likes to play practical jokes and uses minor spell like effects to frustrate and annoy PCs for fun, or deciding how a shadow dragon should work on the fly.

And the Pundit ran berserk among the Men of Straw.  He slew fifty to the left and fifty to the right, and did not think it too many.

Quote from: P&P;758511And the Pundit ran berserk among the Men of Straw.  He slew fifty to the left and fifty to the right, and did not think it too many.

Classic Pundejo. Like I told him in the D&D Basic thread that got this shitstorm started, I don't think anyone holds the position he's railing against.

But then we are talking about someone who believes White Wolf and/or storygamers are plotting the downfall of Western civilization.

Quote from: The Butcher;758513Classic Pundejo. Like I told him in the D&D Basic thread that got this shitstorm started, I don't think anyone holds the position he's railing against.

But then we are talking about someone who believes White Wolf and/or storygamers are plotting the downfall of Western civilization.

I'm sure someone does, but it's a weak man argument; it's not worth spewing the vitriol at a couple of people on the fringe.

On the other hand, if your entire online reputation comes from playing a particular character, you kinda have to run that persona as far and as hard as you can, even if it is right into the ground...

Quote from: The Butcher;758513Classic Pundejo. Like I told him in the D&D Basic thread that got this shitstorm started, I don't think anyone holds the position he's railing against.

But then we are talking about someone who believes White Wolf and/or storygamers are plotting the downfall of Western civilization.

OSR Taliban never that great a term as it applied to maybe 4 people.  JMal for instance wasn't an OSR Taliban, he was more of an OSR Fake Talmudic Scholar.

Remember also the OSR "One True Wayism" really only came about defensively as the new school and cool kids felt it necessary to tear down, denigrate, marginalize, and insult everything that came before as something only the RPG version of Archie Bunker played.

As Ravenswing said, if you look over the last week or so, you'll find OSR Taliban now apparently means "disagree with anything having to do with 5e".  

People went to war this time without even a released game.  I guess the battles over 6th will begin when it's announced.