Here is one example from Old School Feats: B&W art, simple layout, but easy to read. Reminiscent of OSE since this is meant to be OSE-compatible.

I use art mostly to illustrate ideas or to improve organization (i.e., I prefer no art on a page if this allows a section to fit a single page instead of splitting it).

I usually do not like to leave that amount of empty space. In fact, I dislike ANY empty space, but an artist friend of mine insisted that this is part of the design.

But, of course, it isn't particularly flashy (although I really like this Halfling!).

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 01:39:57 PM
Here is one example from Old School Feats: B&W art, simple layout, but easy to read. Reminiscent of OSE since this is meant to be OSE-compatible.

I use art mostly to illustrate ideas or to improve organization (i.e., I prefer no art on a page if this allows a section to fit a single page instead of splitting it).

I usually do not like to leave that amount of empty space. In fact, I dislike ANY empty space, but an artist friend of mine insisted that this is part of the design.

But, of course, it isn't particularly flashy (although I really like this Halfling!).

So, would you rather have the paragraphs cut out to the next column/page or have a bit of blank space?

Yeah, I prefer keeping the blank space but also leaving each header separate, without column or page breaks.

I think I'll almost always choose organization over looks.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2023, 03:24:24 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 01:39:57 PM
Here is one example from Old School Feats: B&W art, simple layout, but easy to read. Reminiscent of OSE since this is meant to be OSE-compatible.

I use art mostly to illustrate ideas or to improve organization (i.e., I prefer no art on a page if this allows a section to fit a single page instead of splitting it).

I usually do not like to leave that amount of empty space. In fact, I dislike ANY empty space, but an artist friend of mine insisted that this is part of the design.

But, of course, it isn't particularly flashy (although I really like this Halfling!).

So, would you rather have the paragraphs cut out to the next column/page or have a bit of blank space?

I think ideally the layout starts first, with blank space for ease of reading, and then art is chosen to fit the blank space.

Quote from: migo on April 22, 2023, 03:41:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2023, 03:24:24 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 01:39:57 PM
Here is one example from Old School Feats: B&W art, simple layout, but easy to read. Reminiscent of OSE since this is meant to be OSE-compatible.

I use art mostly to illustrate ideas or to improve organization (i.e., I prefer no art on a page if this allows a section to fit a single page instead of splitting it).

I usually do not like to leave that amount of empty space. In fact, I dislike ANY empty space, but an artist friend of mine insisted that this is part of the design.

But, of course, it isn't particularly flashy (although I really like this Halfling!).

So, would you rather have the paragraphs cut out to the next column/page or have a bit of blank space?

I think ideally the layout starts first, with blank space for ease of reading, and then art is chosen to fit the blank space.

You have no idea how many professionally made books do not follow that rule.

Quote from: migo on April 22, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
So, would you rather have the paragraphs cut out to the next column/page or have a bit of blank space?

I think ideally the layout starts first, with blank space for ease of reading, and then art is chosen to fit the blank space.
[/quote]

Personally on that one I would have bumped the part that says halfling down to the bottom and added another small piece of art.

I'd also have centered the guy with the crossbow a little more so there wasn't so much dead space above his head.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2023, 03:58:13 PM


You have no idea how many professionally made books do not follow that rule.

In terms of exact number? I'm sure I don't. But I'm well aware that plenty don't. Nonetheless, more ought to.

Yeah, I'm often appalled how professional designers (like WotC) miss some obvious stuff, especially organization.

My example above is certainly not the best example, as I specifically like this drawing and it stands side by side with an elf in a two-page spread, which limited the size of the Halfling... I'll try to post later. Not that I'm any kind of artist either.

But I posted as an example of simple B&W design - in opposition to the more colorful/digital 5e stuff, some of which I enjoy, and also the more "avant garde" stuff with ten font sizes in the same page and three or four bright colors as background that seems to be popular.

Sometimes I feel that rules that are not particularly good get popularized quickly due to style. And, fair enough, I enjoy great art too - I choose my PDFs for substance, but I often prefer print books that look good, even tough content comes first IMO.

Could it be that production values is what the OSR is missing? Or does the old school illustrations enhance the old school flavor?

Here is one example of one of my books, the only one I did with an actual artist:



Still simple as far as decoration goes (and I avoided the "fake parchment" look on purpose), but more impressive than my other books, and looks great in print.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 06:06:55 PM
Here is one example of one of my books, the only one I did with an actual artist:



Still simple as far as decoration goes (and I avoided the "fake parchment" look on purpose), but more impressive than my other books, and looks great in print.

Looks great! Why are you asking us for advice? LOL

Thank you!

As I've said, this one was done by a pro (both the art and layout), but I'm trying to learn something myself. Most my books I do alone, with the occasional help and advice from friends.

I rarely get the opportunity to commission art, so I was wondering which kind of art to use, etc.

Also, guess I like to talk about this stuff... good feedback is hard to find!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2023, 03:58:13 PM

Quote from: migo on April 22, 2023, 03:41:57 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 22, 2023, 03:24:24 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 01:39:57 PM
Here is one example from Old School Feats: B&W art, simple layout, but easy to read. Reminiscent of OSE since this is meant to be OSE-compatible.

I use art mostly to illustrate ideas or to improve organization (i.e., I prefer no art on a page if this allows a section to fit a single page instead of splitting it).

I usually do not like to leave that amount of empty space. In fact, I dislike ANY empty space, but an artist friend of mine insisted that this is part of the design.

But, of course, it isn't particularly flashy (although I really like this Halfling!).

So, would you rather have the paragraphs cut out to the next column/page or have a bit of blank space?

I think ideally the layout starts first, with blank space for ease of reading, and then art is chosen to fit the blank space.

You have no idea how many professionally made books do not follow that rule.

I could care less if art is b&w or color. I do care about white space. The example I've quoted \ has uneven columns and art that doesn't really fit well. It feels as if the columns were designed to accommodate the art and not the opposite. It would be better to move the halflings entry to the left column and create even columns and have a wider but shorter bit of art fill the bottom of the page. Even empty space beneath even columns works if there isn't too much white space.

The aberrations example on this page is perfect, by the way.

White space is important. I've heard people brag about the usefulness of using the back of the cover for info (price lists in LoTFP) as great design but its not really, its crowded and leaves no time for the eyes/brain to breathe.You don't truly use price lists that often so cramming it in where every other book in the world chooses white space comes off as ugly and forced (especially when you print it in red).

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 22, 2023, 09:59:19 PM
Thank you!

As I've said, this one was done by a pro (both the art and layout), but I'm trying to learn something myself. Most my books I do alone, with the occasional help and advice from friends.

I rarely get the opportunity to commission art, so I was wondering which kind of art to use, etc.

Also, guess I like to talk about this stuff... good feedback is hard to find!

If you have a reasonably modern computer with a moderately decent GPU you can run stable diffusion and I can send you a link to some models that are very good for RPG art.

Way I look at it is this: Professional art is better than AI art is better than clip art.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on April 21, 2023, 10:08:24 PMHow important are production values to you? Art? Index? Page decoration? Organization?

Or do you ALWAYS value content over looks?

Also, if you don't have professional art, you'd rather have stock art, AI art, PD art, or something else?

Content paramount. I would rather have good content with hand drawn maps photocopied at the back of a Word doc and no art than crap content paired with great production values. As for art, I'd rather have one solid cover piece of any sort that inspires me to explore and no art inside than a whole bunch of shit generic crap padding the page count and cluttering up the layout.