The nice thing about +1 per point over 15 is that it rewards exceptional scores but can be completely ignored for everything else.

Normally I'm a hard core every point should count psycho but this is D&D we're talking about.  The second version of Dark Passages used a scale that mapped to 3e-5e but split the to hit and damage bonus (or whatever) so you got something for every point.  It worked okay but tended to be too complex for what was originally intended as a dead simple game.

I'm playing around with +1 per point over 10 and -1 per point under 10 and +1 per level on skills on a current project but I think it'll wind up requiring a second d20 roll to work well past 5th level, and the PCs start as 10th level amnesiacs.

Aren't some OSR games more streamlined ruleswise than oldskool games ever were?

I mean there was a lot of clunkyness in in the earlier D&D versions. Some OSR games are nostalgic to the old days, but seem to me like modern games with it's streamlined design.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;827134Aren't some OSR games more streamlined ruleswise than oldskool games ever were?

I mean there was a lot of clunkyness in in the earlier D&D versions. Some OSR games are nostalgic to the old days, but seem to me like modern games with it's streamlined design.

Yes, many are written with a particular intent in mind, and pare away or revise the stuff that doesn't fit. Most of the older games were a grab-bag of all sorts of rules, which were often ignored or forgotten, and so there's an editorial decision right there as to what you include. As an example, look at all the rules around overland travel, weather and so on in the Moldvay Expert Set.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;827134Aren't some OSR games more streamlined ruleswise than oldskool games ever were?

I mean there was a lot of clunkyness in in the earlier D&D versions. Some OSR games are nostalgic to the old days, but seem to me like modern games with it's streamlined design.

Osr games (assuming: OGL-based d&d clones, basically) are all over the place but I think you're right in this sense: bitd, designers and groups didn't shy away from borrowing or devising new custom mechanics. E.g. early editions of D&D either included whole separate sections on mass combat, sea combat, and aerial combat, or invited players to grab them from wargames. AD&D had separate subsystems for dealing with encounters and evasion during overland travel. I think it's much more likely these days for designers to look for ways to universalize existing mechanics.

I doubt that the tendency toward the B/X spread is due to some kind of dislike of AD&D; there's a lot of OSR people who are big fans of AD&D.  I just think that the other spread is more 'classic', with the modifiers people tend to think of in the game.

Quote from: estar;826886The resurgence of interest in the oldest edition of D&D, the rise of games like Fate, and the general interest in RPGs with simpler mechanics taught people that you don't need formal rules to cover everything. That sometimes less is better. That much of what we think we need rules for can be handled by just writing it down in natural language and roleplaying accordingly.

Quote from: estar;826886That sometimes less is better. That much of what we think we need rules for can be handled by just writing it down in natural language and roleplaying accordingly.

Quote from: estar;826886That much of what we think we need rules for can be handled by just writing it down in natural language and roleplaying accordingly.

Yes. Yes it can.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;944835Yes. Yes it can.

My preference is for something a little more concrete than AD&D style secondary skills. But not that much more.

Earthdawn uses the 3-18* scale to render a "Step", which is added to a talent/skill rank to figure the dice pool to roll. The basic math is Attribute Step = 1 + Attribute Value/3 (round all fractions up).

I like having 3e-style d20+bonus vs DC mechanics. But not having any fixed list of skills.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;944835Yes. Yes it can.

Sweet Crom's hairy NUTSACK, yes.

If you're a Hero, you can do anything it's reasonable for a Hero to do.  If you're a Theurigst, you can do anything that's reasonable for a 4th level magic user to do.

In case of question, talk to the damn referee like a grownup.  FKR forever!!

The B/X version is easier to remember, and gives bonuses for scores of 13 or better. AD&D stats are harder to remember and mostly don't give bonuses for stats lower than 15. For example, a fighter with a STR of 14 in B/X gets +1 to hit and damage. That same fighter would need a 17 in AD&D to get those pluses.

Quote from: JeremyR;826739The OSR is a lot like Puritianism.

The original game is the one true game, anything else is heretical. Especially AD&D. 4d6 drop 1? How dare people want high ability scores They should be burned at the stake.

Though of course, not as bad as the Thief class. Apparently that's when the game went downhill...

But of course, there are lots of different groups that have different interpretations of how the one true game should be really be implemented, so you see a lot of variants. But they do have a lot in common.

Quote from: Premier;826865Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit. If you had said "Certain grognard circles, such as the ones associated with forum or product X., Y. or Z. are a lot like Puritanism...", I would have concurred. That would have been true.

You mean this site?

Quote from: Arminius;826877Then there's the silly rationale, "goes to 11"--it's just nicer to have double-digit scores even if the net effect is no different.

That's why I scribble in big "0" in front of my (more often than not) single digit attribute scores. It makes me feel better.

Quote from: estar;944844My preference is for something a little more concrete than AD&D style secondary skills. But not that much more.

Have you given HackMaster a look?

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;945770Have you given HackMaster a look?

4th or  5th edition? They are very different sets of rules.

But yes I have both.

Fourth Edition
It is a monstrosity and the ultimate AD&D wet dream. People consider it a parody and while there definitely parody elements in that especially in the commentary and flavor text it is AD&D on steroids. Lots and lots of steroids. My friends and I tried and realized that much detail wasn't our cup of tea anymore. If that hit in the late 80s then it would have been a different story.

Fifth Edition
A very nice RPG with a unique method of handling time in combat. Basically there are no combat round and every action takes so many seconds.  I have to say while Harnmaster has the best injury system in my opinion, Hackmaster 5th however has one of the best ways of organizing combat time. Very free form with combatants not locked into a you go, I go order.

The only problem I have is grasping what happens in the seconds after you swing a sword (or any other action). If you have a speed factor of 5 and swing on second 6, you can't swing again until second 11. I don't get what the character can do in between if anything. The rules to me are not clear on that point.

As for the system overall it has some D&Dism not as close as DCC RPG but not as different as Palladium Fantasy.

As for classic D&D, I published my take as the Majestic Wilderlands supplement.