I've been downloading a lot of PDFs of OSR games lately.  One minor thing I've noticed about them is that a majority of the ones I've looked at use something either identical or much closer to the B/X ability score modifier charts than the AD&D charts.

I just think that's interesting for some reason.  I've always liked the 3/4-5/6-8/9-12/13-15/16-17/18 split better anyway.

It neatly lines up with the bell-curve of probabilities of a 3d6 roll. But then I am a B/X and BECMI/RC fan.

AD&D proposed methods that inflate ability scores, which makes bonuses more common (and penalties less) than is the case when such a distribution is applied to straight 3d6.

From having used the latter in Metamorphosis Alpha, I'll say there's a different psychology. Since only about 1 score in 5 gets a bonus or penalty (9.26% each way) - and mods greater than +/-1 are even more rare - one is far from being "odd man out" if one doesn't get (say) a Strength bonus.  It's remarkable good luck to get one: about 1 in 11 figures, if you're tossing 3d6 each for 6 abilities in order.

With the B/X spread, mods are more common. One thing this means is that bonuses and penalties are more likely to balance out. Then again, having a bonus in one's prime requisite becomes the norm. The BX point trades, like the AD&D boosting and choosing distribution, make it more a matter of bad luck not to get that!

Quote from: Phillip;826696AD&D proposed methods that inflate ability scores, which makes bonuses more common (and penalties less) than is the case when such a distribution is applied to straight 3d6.

From having used the latter in Metamorphosis Alpha, I'll say there's a different psychology. Since only about 1 score in 5 gets a bonus or penalty (9.26% each way) - and mods greater than +/-1 are even more rare - one is far from being "odd man out" if one doesn't get (say) a Strength bonus.  It's remarkable good luck to get one: about 1 in 11 figures, if you're tossing 3d6 each for 6 abilities in order.

With the B/X spread, mods are more common. One thing this means is that bonuses and penalties are more likely to balance out. Then again, having a bonus in one's prime requisite becomes the norm. The BX point trades, like the AD&D boosting and choosing distribution, make it more a matter of bad luck not to get that!

Them's good points.  Also why I do 3d6, none of this drop the lowest die crap.

The OSR is a lot like Puritianism.

The original game is the one true game, anything else is heretical. Especially AD&D. 4d6 drop 1? How dare people want high ability scores They should be burned at the stake.

Though of course, not as bad as the Thief class. Apparently that's when the game went downhill...

But of course, there are lots of different groups that have different interpretations of how the one true game should be really be implemented, so you see a lot of variants. But they do have a lot in common.

Maybe it's just easier if each Ability Score has the same mod ranges – 16 in whatever Ability Score is +2.

AD&D is harder to keep in active memory, e.g. STR bonuses are different from CON bonuses, or for DEX AC modifiers are different from missile mods.

Quote from: JeremyR;826739The OSR is a lot like Puritianism.

The original game is the one true game, anything else is heretical. Especially AD&D. 4d6 drop 1? How dare people want high ability scores They should be burned at the stake.

Though of course, not as bad as the Thief class. Apparently that's when the game went downhill...

But of course, there are lots of different groups that have different interpretations of how the one true game should be really be implemented, so you see a lot of variants. But they do have a lot in common.

What's "Puritianism"? Something for Puritans who wouldn't play without inflated stats?

Quote from: JeremyR;826739The OSR is a lot like Puritianism.

The original game is the one true game, anything else is heretical. Especially AD&D. 4d6 drop 1? How dare people want high ability scores They should be burned at the stake.

Though of course, not as bad as the Thief class. Apparently that's when the game went downhill...

But of course, there are lots of different groups that have different interpretations of how the one true game should be really be implemented, so you see a lot of variants. But they do have a lot in common.

I concur. I've always seen it as Golden Era Longing. The 'perfect' past that is held in the memory is inviolate. It can never tarnish. Especially if one never thinks about it too deeply. I played 1E. A whole lot of it. It was all we had. Games moved past it for a reason.

The B/X ability mods always made more sense to me than the AD&D ones.
True20 making away with the "score gives you a modifier" thing made even more sense.

Quote from: artikid;826848The B/X ability mods always made more sense to me than the AD&D ones.
True20 making away with the "score gives you a modifier" thing made even more sense.

Well, it does if you're using typical skills. Not as much if you're using ability checks.

Quote from: Tetsubo;826841I concur. I've always seen it as Golden Era Longing. The 'perfect' past that is held in the memory is inviolate. It can never tarnish. Especially if one never thinks about it too deeply. I played 1E. A whole lot of it. It was all we had. Games moved past it for a reason.

Yup commercial interests being the main one.

Or wait just maybe it possible to like the original and play it and like other games. Just like people like chess, chess variants, and other similar boardgames without thing that somehow chess is broken or obsolete.

And the fact that this comes up even though OSR publishing is going on in its 8th or 9th year (if you take a 2006-2007 start). So when this stops being an issue. Does it need to make it to 10, 15, or 20 years?

The way it has panned out is that there is a small but sustained interest in older edition. Barring some fad or break-out hit, it is shaping up to be a market about the size of the other third party RPGs out there. Bigger than some, smaller than others. Some companies like Goblinoid Games, Lamentation of the Flame Princess, Sine Nomine, or Frog God Games are bigger and more active other are not like my own Bat in the Attic Games.

If anything the problem is the newer is better mentality that was instilled by Gygax in promoting AD&D 1st edition over OD&D and entrenched with the progression from 2.0 to 3.0 to 3.5 to 4.0.

Now don't get me wrong older editions can be presented better, the original form of OD&D can use a lot of improvement in presentation and many subsystems of AD&D 1st were downright unclear. However as games they run as good today as they did back in the day.

Feel like folks panning Golden Eras just aren't finished with theirs yet.:-)

For me, it's all about simplicity in the system. Players just wanna play, for the most part, and not all of them see long chargen as playing. I don't for one minute think OS systems are perfect. But I find many of the systems honest and charming. I guess then, at my advancing age, charming and honest is more important these days than cool and slick. Me of the past would likely disagree (but me of the past was pretty stupid).:-)

Quote from: JeremyR;826739The OSR is a lot like Puritianism.

The original game is the one true game, anything else is heretical.

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit. If you had said "Certain grognard circles, such as the ones associated with forum or product X., Y. or Z. are a lot like Puritanism...", I would have concurred. That would have been true.

But the OSR is anything but. Most (admittedly not all) of this is OSR. There's such a staggering variety of not only thematic, but also rules-related variations and experiments, that calling the OSR at large puritanical is assinine. In fact, I'd say "D&D at large" has never been as full of variations, changes and (published) houserules as with the OSR today.

Quote from: cranebump;826859Well, it does if you're using typical skills. Not as much if you're using ability checks.

You can have no skills and just ability checks under such a system just as well.

I've been running AD&D with a bunch of newbies recently. Most of them don't know anything except to roll a d20 and add some number on their character sheet then tell me what they got. It takes about 1 second. The notion that having different ability modifiers matter beyond character creation is a bit overblown. D&D, AD&D, B/X, etc...these are all different games. They all play a bit differently. Pick whichever one you like best and use that. Claiming one is better than the other (for ability modifiers for instance) ASSumes homogeneity is good.  Why? Just roll some dice behind your screen and tell the players what happens.