I'm an experienced gamer looking to explore OSR. I started with AD&D 2E, which I understand is the earliest edition that everyone agrees is not old school. Aside from a very brief dalliance with Fantasy Trip, that is also the oldest system I've played. Can anyone recommend a good starting point system or two?
Basic Fantasy is good and completely free. It is what I prefer, although Swords & Wizardry is good too.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;952004Basic Fantasy is good and completely free. It is what I prefer, although Swords & Wizardry is good too.
Ditto
Thank you.
Can anyone comment on how Dungeon Crawl Classics and Arrows of Indra compare and/or fit in to the ecosystem?
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952012Thank you.
Can anyone comment on how Dungeon Crawl Classics and Arrows of Indra compare and/or fit in to the ecosystem?
DCC is a new system that tries (and by most accounts succeeds quite well) to capture the OSR flavour without directly copying a former edition of D&D. Arrows of Indra is a an adaption of old-school D&D to a setting based on the mythology of India rather than the atypical Western European pseudo medieval setting
BFRPG is a very good pick. Labyrinth Lord also which is mostly the same experiance if one wants something a bit closer to actual B/X, but I'd pick BFRPG anyway.
Swords&Wizardry Complete or Swords&Wizardry White Box. Both also free and Complete got a SRD page.
Why do you feel the need to check out the OSR systems instead of just picking up the original OD&D, B/X or 1e books which are now all available online? If you're familiar with 2e S&W will be super familiar, as it is essentially 1e/2e with some minor 3e tweaks.
If you want a 'modern' OSR system Beyond the Wall, The Black Hack and White Hack are the best by far.
BtW doesn't do anything too radical with its stripped down B/X system but it has excellent chargen and scenario/setting material and its magic system is the best example of real 'low magic' in D&D that I've seen.
TBH and WH are more radical rewrites of the rules but are both very well done, well written, play fast and have that ever elusive design ideal 'elegance.' TBH also has the advantage of being very popular by OSR standards and people are making new material for it all the time.
Kevin Crawford's Godbound is typically great from the most reliably skilled designer in the OSR.
Quote from: Voros;952025Why do you feel the need to check out the OSR systems instead of just picking up the original OD&D, B/X or 1e books which are now all available online?
Mostly curiosity. I have found that what a group of gamers changes (or preserves) in a system can tell me a lot about what they value and how they play. I want to understand the community as well as the systems.
Also, I think I'll have an easier time selling my current gaming group on a system they haven't heard of before than an older edition of D&D. Most of them didn't experience anything TSR produced and have developed some negative associations with the brand. I hope I'll be able to get them to try it eventually, but an intermediate step will make things easier.
What does B/X stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.
IIRC, Basic Fantasy RPG is the third most played fantasy RPG on Roll20, below Dungeons & Dragons 5E and Pathfinder. So it's popular, the PDFs are free, and the physical books are cheap.
B/X stands for the Dungeons & Dragons Basic & Expert Sets, released in 1981 IIRC.
I highly suggest checking out MAZES & MINOTAURS
It's free and has a mountain of supplements!
http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm
M&M is Greek Mythos via Hollywood OD&D - aka Clash of the Titans, 300, Ray Harryhausen goodness.
I've run it many times and it does great with new players.
Basic Fantasy RPG is a great starting point, being printed at-cost. Most of the adventures are good (esp JD Neal's work) and can support years of play. http://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html
I've had a lot of success with ACKS (Adventurer Conquerer King System), as my signature attests. They have a great community and a solid line of products as well. Although I'm shilling for them so much lately I'm considering asking to be on their payroll...
You could try using Swords and Wizardry with my Majestic Wilderlands supplement using the Scourge of the Demon Wolf adventure
http://www.batintheattic.com
Of course that would be sounding my own horn. On a more serious note Swords and Wizardry, Labyninth Lord, OSRIC, Basic Fantasy, ACKS, Loftfp, all work well as a intro to the OSR.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952064Mostly curiosity. I have found that what a group of gamers changes (or preserves) in a system can tell me a lot about what they value and how they play. I want to understand the community as well as the systems.
Also, I think I'll have an easier time selling my current gaming group on a system they haven't heard of before than an older edition of D&D. Most of them didn't experience anything TSR produced and have developed some negative associations with the brand. I hope I'll be able to get them to try it eventually, but an intermediate step will make things easier.
What does B/X stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.
Forget the brand, old school is about more what you as the DM/GM bring to the table. B/X or better yet the Rules Compendium couldn't be a better old school start. The new stuff is just reskinned TSR and someone else's home version of B/X etc.
If the negative association is really with the brand on the box and not the rules, that is some pretty narrow minded thinking, if it is with the rules, well a lot of the OSR doubles down on the mechanics that many were not enchanted with.
You played AD&D 2e, so doing 1e would not be much different and falls in the old school camp. Likewise, you can't get much more old school that The Fantasy Trip and there are "OSR" versions of it. TFT also has a very different vibe than TSR products.
Other old school games outside the TSR orbit are Tunnels & Trolls, and Dragon Warriors. I'd highly recommend looking at Dragon Warriors, great art in the last edition (same rules from yore just put together nicely), a class system but with skill-like flexibility and a better treatment of armor. Lastly Castles & Crusades is OSR I believe, even before OSR became an acronym.
Quote from: Xanther;952115If the negative association is really with the brand on the box and not the rules, that is some pretty narrow minded thinking, if it is with the rules, well a lot of the OSR doubles down on the mechanics that many were not enchanted with.
The association is with "Dungeons and Dragons", as they tried three different editions of it (3, 4, and 5) and had consistently negative experiences. While I know from personal experience that TSR produced a very different game from any that WotC did, after 3 strikes "here's another D&D" isn't likely to get a great response. I'm hoping I can run something successful first, then introduce an older edition as having more in common with the game they just played and liked than the WotC ones they didn't.
Are The Fantasy Trip pdfs available for sale anywhere? I'd love to pick up a set but haven't been able to find them.
Thanks again to everyone who shared recommendations; everything I've looked at so far seems promising.
What did they not like about 3e or 5e? Because if it was excessive crunch I can't see them digging a reskinned 1e which will still have a lot of that crunch.
If that's the case the Rules Cyclopedia, which collects all of the rules from level 1-36 for classic Basic D&D is your best bet. It is also available on Drivethrurpg for $10.
Quote from: Voros;952333What did they not like about 3e or 5e? Because if it was excessive crunch I can't see them digging a reskinned 1e which will still have a lot of that crunch.
Crunch itself isn't a problem (I'm currently running Shadowrun for some of them and Hero for some others). We had some good 3e games, but people got tired of how long character creation took and how dominant offense was over defense at mid to high levels.
4e had some good ideas (faster character creation if nothing else), but inflated hitpoints made combat take too long and missing with daily powers was a recurring source of frustration.
5e got the least exposure. Several of us played a playtest game at a convention, which was terribly run and left a bad taste in everyone's mouths. When the final version came out, no one who read it could give a compelling answer to the question "why should we play this instead of something else?". I know a lot of people are really enthusiastic about 5e, so I'd like to give it another shot (probably with a game shop group), but the scheduling just hasn't worked out yet.
For a dungeon crawling game to succeed with them now, I'd like to see something that plays quickly (both in character creation and in combat) while still having a decent amount of crunch. Support for sandbox-style play is also a plus (though that might just be my personal nostalgia for treasure tables talking).
I like 5e a lot. It is very modular. If you take out feats, which are optional, chargen and play will be quite fast.
Quote from: Voros;952360I like 5e a lot. It is very modular. If you take out feats, which are optional, chargen and play will be quite fast.
True. You stick to the free download, with its pared down race/class choices, it's even faster (and likely the only version of 5E I'll ever run now, if I get back to it).
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952064Mostly curiosity. I have found that what a group of gamers changes (or preserves) in a system can tell me a lot about what they value and how they play. I want to understand the community as well as the systems.
Also, I think I'll have an easier time selling my current gaming group on a system they haven't heard of before than an older edition of D&D. Most of them didn't experience anything TSR produced and have developed some negative associations with the brand. I hope I'll be able to get them to try it eventually, but an intermediate step will make things easier.
What does B/X stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.
If your players problems with D&D are character bloat and excessive combat length, then going back to earlier editions can certainly help. Around the time 3E became to lose its shine in my gaming circles, I broke out B/X for a group of players that started with 3E, and they absolutely loved how fast and easy it was. They also liked the way dungeons adventures worked in a way that they didn't in later editions.
With 3E, a few fights could eat an entire session, which meant exploring even an average dungeon by classic module standards could get tedious. With B/X rules, they were able to get deep into a dungeon in a single session, with the exploration and mapping of the complex being a much larger focus.
Still, I don't know if it is good idea to use an OSR game to try and "trick" your players into trying D&D again. Maybe the title and cover will fool them, but the second you have them roll 3D6 for abilities and pick classes, their D&D alarm is going to go off, and they might recoil from it. If they feel you set them up, it's going to make it harder to sell them on it.
I'd be honest with your group. Talk to them about about how you weren't happy with later editions either and be specific in how you think moving to an older edition or OSR title is going to fix problems your group had with D&D.
If you are insistent on trying to get them into D&D through subterfuge, I'd recommend going with the one of the non-fantasy titles from Sine Nomine that are based on the D&D B/X system.
Stars Without Number is a space opera game that had a free edition. There is also Other Dust, a post-apocalyptic game in the same setting, and Silent Legions, a horror game. The change is obvious setting might be enough to keep them from getting suspicious. Then, if they like the mechanics, you can tell them about this fantasy game that uses the same mechanics, and pull out the Fantasy OSR game of your choice.
Quote from: Voros;952333What did they not like about 3e or 5e? Because if it was excessive crunch I can't see them digging a reskinned 1e which will still have a lot of that crunch.
While 1E had serious organizational issues, I don't think it is nearly as crunchy as 3E, and you get even lighter if go to B/X.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952338For a dungeon crawling game to succeed with them now, I'd like to see something that plays quickly (both in character creation and in combat) while still having a decent amount of crunch. Support for sandbox-style play is also a plus (though that might just be my personal nostalgia for treasure tables talking).
I some how missed this post. If you are looking for sandbox support, then my recommendation for Sine Nomine products is even higher. They are loaded with tables for generating settings and plots. You can download the free version of Stars Without Number (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition?term=stars+witho&test_epoch=0)here to get an idea.
That aside, OSR games are broadly compatible, and there are plenty of sandboxes and sandbox generation tools out there. The D30 Sandbox Companion (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/124392/d30-Sandbox-Companion?term=d30+sa&test_epoch=0) is a great one, although as the name implies, it does require a d30.
Hate the rules bloat of modern RPGs? Dislike 3X and glut of d20 RPGs? Castles & Crusades is the penultimate 'OSR' game, unless you intend to run stock AD&D. In my opinion, it beats out Basic Fantasy & Lamentations of the Flame Princess in its elegance of a unified dice mechanic. Best of all - you can use it to run practically any OSR/AD&D-styled adventure with little to no changes, using on the Castles & Crusades Player's Handbook.
But don't take my word for it; read within to get a detailed breakdown of C&C, illustrating why it is the best OSR product on the market: http://www.rpgmusings.com/2015/03/castles-and-crusades-review/
EDIT
Another fantastic review with its strengths and weaknesses, including comparisons to Basic Fantasy and AD&D 3e: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=91636&products_id=105322
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952285The association is with "Dungeons and Dragons", as they tried three different editions of it (3, 4, and 5) and had consistently negative experiences. While I know from personal experience that TSR produced a very different game from any that WotC did, after 3 strikes "here's another D&D" isn't likely to get a great response. I'm hoping I can run something successful first, then introduce an older edition as having more in common with the game they just played and liked than the WotC ones they didn't.
Are The Fantasy Trip pdfs available for sale anywhere? I'd love to pick up a set but haven't been able to find them.
Thanks again to everyone who shared recommendations; everything I've looked at so far seems promising.
Here's a TFT fan page to start: https://inthelabyrinth.org/rulebooks/
There is also this retroclone Warrior and Wizard by Chris Goodwin (here the first link I found): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bH58K8Lmd3seAErMxCxda1x7roL7YhZqwuF_YqICbN0/edit
There is this clone by Dark City games: http://www.darkcitygames.com/docs/Legends.pdf
Lastly this clone Heroes & Other Worlds: http://heroworlds.blogspot.com/
I don't know much about The Fantasy Trip other than that it was a precursor to GURPS 1E of sorts, but if you're interested in old-school simplified D&D-style OSR gaming, I would like to re-iterate Basic Fantasy as a system.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;952416Hate the rules bloat of modern RPGs? Dislike 3X and glut of d20 RPGs? Castles & Crusades is the penultimate 'OSR' game, unless you intend to run stock AD&D. In my opinion, it beats out Basic Fantasy & Lamentations of the Flame Princess in its elegance of a unified dice mechanic. Best of all - you can use it to run practically any OSR/AD&D-styled adventure with little to no changes, using on the Castles & Crusades Player's Handbook.
But don't take my word for it; read within to get a detailed breakdown of C&C, illustrating why it is the best OSR product on the market: http://www.rpgmusings.com/2015/03/castles-and-crusades-review/
EDIT
Another fantastic review with its strengths and weaknesses, including comparisons to Basic Fantasy and AD&D 3e: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=91636&products_id=105322
And you can get a chance at a cheap copy by backing their 7th printing Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-players-handbook-7 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-players-handbook-7)
Quote from: Doc Sammy;952004Basic Fantasy is good and completely free. It is what I prefer, although Swords & Wizardry is good too.
BFRPG has a lot of nice modules too. I just used Tales from the Laughing Dragon to play(test) the game I've been writing. My players really enjoyed the module.
The question is not so much "what is the best OSR gateway game" as it is "what's drawing you to the OSR."
Curiosity (or actual nostalgia) about how X edition plays? Pick up the actual old edition if possible, or the closest clone (Swords & Wizardry White Box for core OD&D, OSRIC for AD&D1, Labyrinth Lord for B/X, etc.)
The prospect of leaner rulesets? Castles & Crusades and Blood & Treasure both do a fine job of supporting classic D&D play with a TSR/OSR disregard for WotC-era complexity.
The joys of gonzo fantasy and zany randomness? Dungeon Crawl Classics.
Appendix N-centric sword-and-sorcery? Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea.
Elaborate worldbuilding and sandbox play complete with domain management and mass combat? Adventurer Conqueror King System.
I much prefer Swords & Wizardry: White Box to Basic Fantasy, but that's my OD&D preference talking.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;952416But don't take my word for it; read within to get a detailed breakdown of C&C, illustrating why it is the best OSR product on the market: http://www.rpgmusings.com/2015/03/castles-and-crusades-review/
If I had a group that really wanted AD&D or 3e-lite, I'd run Castles & Crusades for them. It is very good and the SIEGE engine - while imperfect - does run quickly and easily at the table. Its what I would have wanted from an AD&D 3e.
For Gold & Glory, the 2e retro-clone, is your answer. 2e is fast chargen, fast combat, everything additional is optional crunch to your salad. Enormous back catalog, settings, and ready to sandbox out of the gate. Toolboxing doesn't get easier or cleaner.
You're welcome.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952064Mostly curiosity. I have found that what a group of gamers changes (or preserves) in a system can tell me a lot about what they value and how they play. I want to understand the community as well as the systems.
Also, I think I'll have an easier time selling my current gaming group on a system they haven't heard of before than an older edition of D&D. Most of them didn't experience anything TSR produced and have developed some negative associations with the brand. I hope I'll be able to get them to try it eventually, but an intermediate step will make things easier.
What does B/X stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.
Maybe DwD Studios BareBones Fantasy? Here's a nice review: http://chaosgrenade.com/2013/05/22/hands-on-review-barebones-fantasy/
This is what I used to introduce a friend to "D&D". It feels OSR to me, without being a D&D retro-clone. Rules are pretty straightforward without a lot of arbitrary limitations.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952064What does B/X stand for? I'm not familiar with that one.
B/X stands for Basic and Expert D&D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set), two sets of Dungeons & Dragons published around the same time AD&D was coming out. B/X is grown from the soil of Original D&D, and thus a separate beast from AD&D.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952064Also, I think I'll have an easier time selling my current gaming group on a system they haven't heard of before than an older edition of D&D. Most of them didn't experience anything TSR produced and have developed some negative associations with the brand. I hope I'll be able to get them to try it eventually, but an intermediate step will make things easier.
With that in mind you might want to check out
Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It is a terrific adaptation of B/X D&D... and significantly it is very different in tone and ambition than previous D&D products.
By that I mean it is not influenced by Tolkien or other high fantasy at all. It bills itself as
Weird Fantasy Roleplaying and its default setting 17th Century Europe. But the rules are pretty much exactly those of B/X D&D, but it's about weirdness and horrors and unique monsters and strange magic.
Most of the "Weird Fantasy" is found in the art in
Rules & Magic Book and a few of the spells, in the
Referee Book (which has no rules but is full of great advice about how to bring out the weird fantasy), and the modules (which I have found to be uniformly terrific. I'm sure there are clunkers. I haven't run into them yet).
(https://talestoastound.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/115059.jpg)
You can get a FREE version of the Rules & Magic PDF here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/115059/LotFP-Rules--Magic-Free-Version?manufacturers_id=2795) (but it contains none of the art).
You can get a FREE version of the Referee Book PDF here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/148012/LotFP-Referee-Book-old-Grindhouse-Edition?manufacturers_id=2795).
Here are adventures available in PDF (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2795/Lamentations-of-the-Flame-Princess?test_epoch=0&page=1&sort=5a).
Here is the LotFP website (http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/).
I've run about six months worth of play with the rules, modules, and adventures of my own design by stitching together the modules into a sprawling campaign (https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/lotfp-fallen-world-campaign/).
The players are having a blast. Their PCs have recently acquired a three masted ship that can travel between alternate worlds and are heading off to a horror fantasy version of southeast Asia (http://www.lotfp.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=169) to get the materials required to stop an invasion of earth from the world of Carcosa (http://www.lotfp.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=carcosa&category_id=0&product_id=145) led by The Yellow King. (I'll add here they've taken this mission upon themselves. I simply provide them with obstacles and opportunities. They go where they want.)
In terms of "brand" it is a completely different kettle of fish. As one of my players said, "I know we're playing D&D. But this isn't like any D&D I've ever played. There's no orcs, no goblins. We seldom go into a dungeon. And when we do its filled with some nightmare none of us have ever encountered before."
Given that you can check out the
Rules & Magic and the
Referee Book for free, it seems like it might be worth at least a look.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;952472And you can get a chance at a cheap copy by backing their 7th printing Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-players-handbook-7 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-players-handbook-7)
Just curious, is there a compelling reason to purchase new printings if you have 4th printing copies?
Lots of good suggestions... OSRIC for 1e AD&D, For Gold & Glory for 2e. Castles & Crusades for a sort-of 3e lite.
I would recommend Fantastic Heroes and Witchery as a very nice compilation of OSR variations.
Dark Dungeons is a great BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia clone.
Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;952769Just curious, is there a compelling reason to purchase new printings if you have 4th printing copies?
I have the 1st printing and I've flipped through the various later printings and I haven't seen any reason to update.
I hear they have a new book coming out with new classes, new spells, new races if you want to give them some cash!
Quote from: Opaopajr;952715For Gold & Glory, the 2e retro-clone, is your answer. 2e is fast chargen, fast combat, everything additional is optional crunch to your salad.
What makes G&G a better clone than the others?
What does it do chargen and combat wise that others don't?
Slightly off-topic, but to the OP, what kind of campaign do you want to run? That may help you determine a good OSR system for you.
As much as I love Basic Fantasy, Delving Deeper, Microlite74, and Swords & Wizardry White Box, I will freely admit that different OSR games fit certain niches better than others. For example, I am planning on running a Sonic The Hedgehog/OD&D crossover campaign (It's an old-school Medieval Fantasy AU) and I really want that old-school OD&D feel. So, in all honesty, my best bet would be Swords & Wizardry White Box or Delving Deeper, though Basic Fantasy and Microlite74 Basic can also work in a pinch depending on how light and easy I want the mechanics to be.
If you're looking for something that has the 2e AD&D feel both thematically and mechanically, I will second the recommendation for Gold & Glory.
Quote from: Spinachcat;952784What makes G&G a better clone than the others?
What does it do chargen and combat wise that others don't?
Because it's a cleaned up editing of 2e, and not much more. Quick and easy 2e initiative, grapple, etc. rules with all the toolbox options you remember, now in a faster reference document, .pdf, with tighter editing. And the DMG & MM is incorporated by now, IIRC (pretty sure MM is).
Barebones 2e core is extremely fast chargen and combat. It's easy to forget how much was truly optional.
Quote from: AmbitiousGM;952012Thank you.
Can anyone comment on how Dungeon Crawl Classics and Arrows of Indra compare and/or fit in to the ecosystem?
Arrows of Indra is D&D remade to fit an Indian setting. Probably not the best place to start if you want something very traditional, but if you want something a little exotic I'm sure you'd like it.
If you want to check out source material, you can head to DriveThru (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=0_0_44828_0_0) and look at the older material. I recommend checking out the B/X rules as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. The Rules Cyclopedia is great because it really has pretty much everything you need. I quite enjoyed the BECMI boxed sets as well.
Labyrinth Lord is probably my favorite OSR. It can work as a stand alone came emulating B/X. There is a supplement for it called the Advanced Edition Companion, which is kind of what AD&D 1e would be like if it was made to be compatible with B/X D&D. I use it with the Rules Cyclopedia because I have no problem more options. I believe you can get the PDFs for free.
Dark Dungeons was mentioned as well as being kind of BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia. It also has some homages to Spelljammer with the serial numbers filed off. I think the PDF for this is also free.
OSRIC is the book I carry when I want to play/DM AD&D but I don't feel like lugging several books across town. It's an AD&D clone and also has a free PDF.
DCC is a really big book and kind of it's own thing but it's well made and the price of the print copy is low. If you happen to be in an FLGS I'd recommend picking it up.
Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerors of Hyperborea is kind of AD&D 1eish. I like to describe it as what Unearthed Arcana could have been if they dispensed with the Tolkienisms. :D
I'd say start with the free stuff, try and read through the originals.
Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;952752You can get a FREE version of the Referee Book PDF here (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/148012/LotFP-Referee-Book-old-Grindhouse-Edition?manufacturers_id=2795).
Huh. I picked up a LotFP Bundle of Holding a while back that included that Characters and Magic book, and I just assumed that was the whole core. I really like the mechanics, but it did seem a little light on the GM end of things. I guess this explains why :)
It never really bothered me, as I was mostly interested in harvesting it for parts to add to B/X. I was a little surprised that, art aside, I wasn't seeing much of the horror tone the game is famous for. I thought maybe it was a case of a game having its tone explained purely through its adventures, which is an entirely viable approach. Having perused the referee book now, this game really does live up to its reputation just in the core.
Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;952769Just curious, is there a compelling reason to purchase new printings if you have 4th printing copies?
I'd say if you have the 4th printing, there's not much of a reason to. For nothing else than the 4th printings are B&W and much easier to read than the color printings.
Quote from: Opaopajr;952844Because it's a cleaned up editing of 2e, and not much more. Quick and easy 2e initiative, grapple, etc. rules with all the toolbox options you remember, now in a faster reference document, .pdf, with tighter editing. And the DMG & MM is incorporated by now, IIRC (pretty sure MM is).
Barebones 2e core is extremely fast chargen and combat. It's easy to forget how much was truly optional.
Another hell yeah for For Gold and Glory. GREAT 2nd edition clone.
I'd recommend BFRPG or Osric. IMO, both are tightly written and better organised than their historical inspirations.
Quote from: Malrex;960373Another hell yeah for For Gold and Glory. GREAT 2nd edition clone.
What's the difference between 2e and a clone of it? All the kits and specialty classes that came on at the end of 2e? Genuinely curious.
Quote from: Voros;952025Why do you feel the need to check out the OSR systems instead of just picking up the original OD&D, B/X or 1e books which are now all available online? If you're familiar with 2e S&W will be super familiar, as it is essentially 1e/2e with some minor 3e tweaks.
This. Most of the older official D&D releases are available! Why bother with someone's amatuer hour work?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;960453This. Most of the older official D&D releases are available! Why bother with someone's amatuer hour work?
I hope to god this is not an honest question. But here you go:
Many are better organised and have made tweaks to the rules. I vastly prefer S&W Whitebox to OD&D for example.
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;960464I hope to god this is not an honest question. But here you go:
Many are better organised and have made tweaks to the rules. I vastly prefer S&W Whitebox to OD&D for example.
Don't let Gronan see this. He'll tell you that you're doing it wrong.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;960403What's the difference between 2e and a clone of it? All the kits and specialty classes that came on at the end of 2e? Genuinely curious.
FG&G doesn't have the kits. It's mainly just a nice compilation of the 3 core books into one well organized text. A supplement that compiles all the kits, or various other optional splat from 2.5, doesn't yet exist. I think it would be cool though.
Quote from: Robyo;960483FG&G doesn't have the kits. It's mainly just a nice compilation of the 3 core books into one well organized text. A supplement that compiles all the kits, or various other optional splat from 2.5, doesn't yet exist. I think it would be cool though.
What about optional material? Does it have Secondary Skills? Non-Weapon Proficiencies?
Quote from: Robyo;960483FG&G doesn't have the kits. It's mainly just a nice compilation of the 3 core books into one well organized text. A supplement that compiles all the kits, or various other optional splat from 2.5, doesn't yet exist. I think it would be cool though.
This. There are also some minor tweaks to some of the rules too.
Also, there are a few working on splat books right now for all the kits. They are discussing it on the FG&G Facebook page. I think they said summer release. They usually discuss projects on the Facebook page so if you feel like weighing in or helping out, join up.
And Willie the Duck--yes, they have non-weapon proficiencies called non-combat skills.
I feel like a commercial, so going to shush up, but if the OP is familiar with 2nd edition, then this would be a easy fit.