Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 09:13:48 AM

Quote from: phydeaux on January 11, 2023, 08:59:01 AM
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.

Cool. Seriously, at this point about the only potentially OGL-related property we've yet to hear word from is Critical Role.

Regarding them; I know some people think they'll work out a special license, but Matt Mercer has been liking some anti-OGL1.1 tweets lately and has made a point about wanting full creative control of his brand.

A license doesn't get him that. Jumping on the anti-D&D bandwagon now that it's become massively unpopular (just as they flowed to it at the height of its popularity) and offering up their own game system to their own fans though? That absolutely would.

Once Critical Role is gone what WotC releases as OGL1.1 almost doesn't matter. Every content creator they hoped to capture will be gone from their grip and the only things still on the OGL1.0a will be non-commercial archives and already defunct systems.

Yeah, Critical Role, more than Kobold Press, is in the best position to deliver a Pathfinder repeat. Not in the sense of a more or less clone system being released, but in the sense of providing serious competition and causing D&D to massively undersell based on expectations.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 11, 2023, 09:53:13 AM
It wasn't directed against you personally. Just a general observation on my part.

Oh, no worries. I can certainly opine on the similarities between Marxism and modern progressivism v classical progressivism, but I don't want to poop up the thread with politics.

Quote from: migo on January 11, 2023, 09:59:18 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 09:13:48 AM

Quote from: phydeaux on January 11, 2023, 08:59:01 AM
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.

Cool. Seriously, at this point about the only potentially OGL-related property we've yet to hear word from is Critical Role.

Regarding them; I know some people think they'll work out a special license, but Matt Mercer has been liking some anti-OGL1.1 tweets lately and has made a point about wanting full creative control of his brand.

A license doesn't get him that. Jumping on the anti-D&D bandwagon now that it's become massively unpopular (just as they flowed to it at the height of its popularity) and offering up their own game system to their own fans though? That absolutely would.

Once Critical Role is gone what WotC releases as OGL1.1 almost doesn't matter. Every content creator they hoped to capture will be gone from their grip and the only things still on the OGL1.0a will be non-commercial archives and already defunct systems.

Yeah, Critical Role, more than Kobold Press, is in the best position to deliver a Pathfinder repeat. Not in the sense of a more or less clone system being released, but in the sense of providing serious competition and causing D&D to massively undersell based on expectations.

Wait until season two of Vox Machina on Amazon outperforms Honor Among Thieves in theaters and Hasbro realizing they could have had CR/LoVM as basically free advertising for D&D if they weren't a bunch of greedy first-stage thinkers.

Also, given their "lifestyle brand" push and how WotC handled the Star Wars license, I'm certain the current layout plan for the 6e books is chock full of stills and concept art from the movie. That's gonna be a painful reminder when the movie bombs* and they're stuck with the stink unless they commission a bunch of replacement art.**

* which, again, has almost nothing to do with the OneD&D debacle and everything to do with it being marketed just like an MCU film in an era of MCU fatigue, Chris Pine as Chris Pine, and tightening discretionary budgets that make splurging on anything but the truly special (ex. coming out to see the full-throated pro-America masterfully filmed nostalgia fest of "Top Gun: Maverick"). Honor Among Thieves looks like every other generic Hollywood fx-laden sci-fi/fantasy action-comedy (complete with rock music soundtrack for the trailer full of what you know are the funniest and most action packed parts of the film) that can easily be skipped.

** though if it were me in charge of what is basically the 50th Anniversary edition (and me not needing it to be Year Zero) I'd be using classic full color paintings from D&D's heyday for EVERYTHING. Particularly since they probably retain the rights to most of it.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 09, 2023, 10:21:20 PM
Dungeons and Delvers Red Book is OGL, but Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool version, which is the version I like, has never been an OGL.  It was unique from day one.  I would say the dice from Savage Worlds, the skills and attributes from D6 Star Wars, with a system of D&D classes.  Sold on an online store created in response to woke censorship on Drivethru.  Site made by the guys at Bigus Geekus podcast.  Big Geek Emporium.

https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/

Shadow of the Demon Lord is not OGL.  It's big thing is character progression.  Every level from 1-10 (the max level is 10) is a bonus from your race, your first profession, your 2nd middle profession, or your 3rd master profession.  You also don't roll any bonuses.  If two players pick identical choices, their characters will numerically be identical.  But with dozens of options, it's not likely two characters will be the same. 

Dragon Warriors is not OGL.  It uses the D20, but is a roll under system.  Also, weapons do a fixed damage, but have a variable armor penetration dice used to beat armor.  Armor has a single digit target number called Armor Bypass.  Magic spells use magic points. 

Overall Dragon Warriors is almost an OSR, but they've modified each part of the game to be it's own thing. But they're simple things, so it's easy to pick up. 

Those are the three games I'm interested in right now that are classically similar to D&D, but altered enough to be standalone and not use the OGL

Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.

Quote from: RebelSky on January 11, 2023, 01:48:46 PM
Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.

   I just pulled my hardcopy off the shelf and confirmed this. Oversight or deliberate? There's no mention of OGC or the OGL in the front material, either.

Quote from: RebelSky on January 11, 2023, 01:48:46 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 09, 2023, 10:21:20 PM
Dungeons and Delvers Red Book is OGL, but Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool version, which is the version I like, has never been an OGL.  It was unique from day one.  I would say the dice from Savage Worlds, the skills and attributes from D6 Star Wars, with a system of D&D classes.  Sold on an online store created in response to woke censorship on Drivethru.  Site made by the guys at Bigus Geekus podcast.  Big Geek Emporium.

https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/

Shadow of the Demon Lord is not OGL.  It's big thing is character progression.  Every level from 1-10 (the max level is 10) is a bonus from your race, your first profession, your 2nd middle profession, or your 3rd master profession.  You also don't roll any bonuses.  If two players pick identical choices, their characters will numerically be identical.  But with dozens of options, it's not likely two characters will be the same. 

Dragon Warriors is not OGL.  It uses the D20, but is a roll under system.  Also, weapons do a fixed damage, but have a variable armor penetration dice used to beat armor.  Armor has a single digit target number called Armor Bypass.  Magic spells use magic points. 

Overall Dragon Warriors is almost an OSR, but they've modified each part of the game to be it's own thing. But they're simple things, so it's easy to pick up. 

Those are the three games I'm interested in right now that are classically similar to D&D, but altered enough to be standalone and not use the OGL

Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.

Yeah, but it's based on the earlier Dungeons and Delvers Black Book, just with all the goodies from supplements added in, and the Black Book does have OGL 1.0a in it. 

I think Red Book Delvers ought to be fine as is, but David Guyll and I email occasionally about the Dice Pool version.  I found typos and errors, so we're working on an updated version of the dice pool game with the fixes, like the filled out example character sheet that was missing the Kobold's racial Talent of Invisibility even after it's mentioned in the text that the Kobold chose that. 

I'm not sure I should say anything, but David is well aware his Red Book is very D&D-like.  I think it's fine, but he's making contingencies plans if he needs to distance his game from any OGL backlash.  I bet he won't need to.