As the OGL 1.1 issue has been developing over the last few days, I've become more and more of a doomer about it. Looking at the future of the hobby, there are a lot of ways this could go, but let's assume the worst. i.e, that the OGL 1.0(a) will be legally revoked, and that any of the OSR games previously published under it might be about to end sale of their products. If that happens, I thought it might be useful to start a list here of which games are likely to survive and keep creating.
Therefore, a list of companies producing OSR (or close to it) games that either are already free of the old OGL., or have announced their intention to re-tool their games to be free of it:
Here's a few that I know of.
Sine Nomine Publishing Stars/Worlds without number. Everyone has already mentioned this, but apparently their games have never used the OGL, and are therefore not subject to Wizards' changes.
RPG Pundit Based on his video at least, the Pundit seems to be confident he can strip the OGL off those of his products that use it, with minimal losses.
The Arcane Library They've announced their intention to re-write their upcoming "Shadowdark" RPG and scrub out anything that would require the OGL before publication, as well as writing their own OGL.
Runehammer Games Index Card RPG, Viking Death Squad and EZd6. As far as I know, none of their games include the OGL.
This is just what happens to be on my radar at the moment. Others will likely know of other examples. If you think this is a useful topic, please feel free to add them.
ACKS II will be OGL/SRD free
The Basic Expert will also pull his stuff and republish it free of the OGL/SRD.
Dungeons and Delvers Red Book is OGL, but Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool version, which is the version I like, has never been an OGL. It was unique from day one. I would say the dice from Savage Worlds, the skills and attributes from D6 Star Wars, with a system of D&D classes. Sold on an online store created in response to woke censorship on Drivethru. Site made by the guys at Bigus Geekus podcast. Big Geek Emporium.
https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/ (https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/)
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not OGL. It's big thing is character progression. Every level from 1-10 (the max level is 10) is a bonus from your race, your first profession, your 2nd middle profession, or your 3rd master profession. You also don't roll any bonuses. If two players pick identical choices, their characters will numerically be identical. But with dozens of options, it's not likely two characters will be the same.
Dragon Warriors is not OGL. It uses the D20, but is a roll under system. Also, weapons do a fixed damage, but have a variable armor penetration dice used to beat armor. Armor has a single digit target number called Armor Bypass. Magic spells use magic points.
Overall Dragon Warriors is almost an OSR, but they've modified each part of the game to be it's own thing. But they're simple things, so it's easy to pick up.
Those are the three games I'm interested in right now that are classically similar to D&D, but altered enough to be standalone and not use the OGL
I just saw a statement from Basic Fantasy RPG that they also intend to "excise" the OGL from their books, and move to the Creative Commons Share-a-Like license.
https://www.basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4596
Necrotic Gnome has also stated they are "making contingency plans", though it is still unclear what that will mean.
https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news/ogl-v1-1
All OSR games will be OGL free in short order. Huzzah!
I doubt any notable changes will be needed. At best, maybe some text rewriting if the authors did cut & paste from the SRD.
Pretty much every spell, every magic item, and probably a lot of each class, at least the flavor text.
And all the monster descriptions.
And then remove all the monsters that are overly D&D-ish, Or from the Tome of Horror
So a lot of work, actually.
I think games set in different genres than D&D 'dungeon fantasy' are in a pretty good position to strip out SRD material and go non-OGL. I think ACKS can be a sword & sorcery game that uses only non-protected general ideas & mechanics from D&D.
I worry about the retro-clones though. Trying to make eg BFRPG or S&W non-OGL seems quite a tall order to me.
Quote from: S'mon on January 10, 2023, 03:46:14 AM
I think games set in different genres than D&D 'dungeon fantasy' are in a pretty good position to strip out SRD material and go non-OGL. I think ACKS can be a sword & sorcery game that uses only non-protected general ideas & mechanics from D&D.
I worry about the retro-clones though. Trying to make eg BFRPG or S&W non-OGL seems quite a tall order to me.
BFRPG is already well on it's way there.
They're combing ALL of the core rules text comparing it against the SRD and changing shit around, they already did the classes, racers, are currently on the spells and monsters.
The new edition will be released either under CC By SA or a custom open license, whosoever finish first has done a lot of the work for others.
What about some of my other faves like Dungeon Crawl Classics and Hyperborea?
Quote from: Batjon on January 10, 2023, 05:15:24 AM
What about some of my other faves like Dungeon Crawl Classics and Hyperborea?
On the
Hyperborea fora Jeff stated a few days ago that he had no response/reaction at this time. That was before the OGL 1.1 dropped.
Quote from: Batjon on January 10, 2023, 05:15:24 AM
What about some of my other faves like Dungeon Crawl Classics and Hyperborea?
DCC should be easy to scrub, I think.
ACKS is definitely going non-OGL for future publications.
Quote from: JeremyR on January 10, 2023, 02:48:16 AM
Pretty much every spell, every magic item, and probably a lot of each class, at least the flavor text.
And all the monster descriptions.
And then remove all the monsters that are overly D&D-ish, Or from the Tome of Horror
So a lot of work, actually.
Wrong. If it's in the SRD, then you can't use specific IP names. "Dwarf", "Elf", "Fireball", etc. are NOT SRD or IP specific, because they're common vernacular used withing TTRPG and PC/Console games.
So you can't use Mind Flayer. We all know this. You call it "Mind Slayer".
Magic Missile? Not in the SRD. But if you REALLY wanted to change the name, call it Arcane Missile or Mystic Bolt or something.
It's not that bad.
I was browsing through Facebook and the internet and seeing the reactions from various 3rd party publishers in the OSR and other 3rd party publishers:
-it seems that
LL 2nd ed may be on hold or may not see the light of day.
-
OSRIC is holding fast to OGL 1.0a. Thus giving the WoTC Nazis the middle finger.
-
OSE's publisher is as of right now reevaluating things. Kind of a "wait and see" stance. they say they may have to redo their release schedule because of this.
-With
Pathfinder, there's an open discussion on their forums right now. Not sure of Paizo's official stance though.
-Goodman Games, publisher of
Dungeon Crawl Classics and Mutant Crawl Classics is quiet about this for now. Forums are pretty silent there.
that's all for now...
Posted this is the other thread...no the OTHER one. Pundit needs to get on the ball and consolidate all this!
From troll Lord Games regarding the Hasbro/Wotc OGL 1.1.
TLG has been a longtime supporter of WoTC and Dungeons and Dragons. We started playing D&D in 1976. The news about the OGL 1.0 (a), if it is true, and it is important to note that as of this moment nothing official has been released, is rather disappointing. Supporting the new OGL, in the form it appeared in the leaked commentary, is not an option for us at TLG. If it manifests in this speculated form, it is an unnecessarily harsh treatment of the entire TTRPG family, those who played, play, and who publish. It is basically an admission of distrust in the people who play their game, the very ones who bring it to ever greater heights of expression. TLG does not share that philosophy. The only thing that maintains our stance in this ttrpg family is the family itself, creators, publishers, players, game masters, their own families, and friends who cheer them on from the sidelines. TLG will not sign this leaked OGL, nor participate in it in any way. Castles & Crusades and all the Siege Engine games are powered by the Siege Engine Attribute Check Mechanic, which is owned entirely by our parent company Chenault & Gray Publishing. What little pieces of the SRD leaked its way into our game over the years, we'll quietly remove, and carry on making and publishing games for us all to play.
Quote from: amacris on January 09, 2023, 09:35:10 PM
ACKS II will be OGL/SRD free
I've heard talk that you're planning on having some sort of "Open License" in forthcoming products for others to use, have you any details worked out yet?
Looks like Frog God and Kobold Press have announcements in the works as well.
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 10, 2023, 12:25:18 PM
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Of course they will, either due to the woketard backlash (the part about them being pussies isn't in question, they are)
Or because that was their plan all along, "leak" something so outrageous it will draw the ire from everybody. Then come with the real deal and the stuff they planed to use all along and say: "See? We listen to the fans!"
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 10, 2023, 12:25:18 PM
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Of course they will, either due to the woketard backlash (the part about them being pussies isn't in question, they are)
Or because that was their plan all along, "leak" something so outrageous it will draw the ire from everybody. Then come with the real deal and the stuff they planed to use all along and say: "See? We listen to the fans!"
Yeah, that sounds about right... We call it 'flying the kite'. Usually referring to when politicians are trying to gauge a reaction to a new policy possibly coming down the line. So they can roll back if it proves too unpopular.
Ha$bro scum, either way.
Quote from: Spinachcat on January 09, 2023, 11:59:18 PM
All OSR games will be OGL free in short order. Huzzah!
I doubt any notable changes will be needed. At best, maybe some text rewriting if the authors did cut & paste from the SRD.
This really depends on if WOTC goes through with this and how litigious they're feeling if they do go through with it.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 10, 2023, 12:25:18 PM
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Of all the topics to point to wokeism on, this is not one of them. EVERYONE is pissed about this. No matter your politics, EVERYONE is united in calling WOTC assholes right now. They're getting shots fired from pretty much every front. I seriously doubt any one is more important than the other when they're facing a hail of bullets.
I mean, the anti-woke guy who started that open letter is getting his letter signed by transgendered storygamers at this point. That's how united the opposition is right now. I have not seen worse PR and a more united RPG community pretty much ever. If they woke-sters could recruit JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle to speak out against WOTC right now, they probably would.
Quote from: Mistwell on January 10, 2023, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 10, 2023, 12:25:18 PM
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Of all the topics to point to wokeism on, this is not one of them. EVERYONE is pissed about this. No matter your politics, EVERYONE is united in calling WOTC assholes right now. They're getting shots fired from pretty much every front. I seriously doubt any one is more important than the other when they're facing a hail of bullets.
I mean, the anti-woke guy who started that open letter is getting his letter signed by transgendered storygamers at this point. That's how united the opposition is right now. I have not seen worse PR and a more united RPG community pretty much ever. If they woke-sters could recruit JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle to speak out against WOTC right now, they probably would.
Well... Duh. Everyone knows that 'everyone' is against it.
My point is that Has$bro will only really listen to the wokeshpere and not the OSR. They are only looking to capture the 5e fans and shit on their big competitors. And squeeze out money from the likes of Mercer, etc.
Quote from: Rod's Duo Narcotics on January 10, 2023, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: amacris on January 09, 2023, 09:35:10 PM
ACKS II will be OGL/SRD free
I've heard talk that you're planning on having some sort of "Open License" in forthcoming products for others to use, have you any details worked out yet?
They're being worked on. I'm working out whether one of the Creative Commons licenses might be suitable, or whether a more specific license that focused on games would be better. One of the things that irks me about the OGL is that it purports to license you stuff that WOTC doesn't have a copyright in -- such as underlying game mechanics.
dp
Quote from: amacris on January 10, 2023, 01:48:00 PM
They're being worked on. I'm working out whether one of the Creative Commons licenses might be suitable, or whether a more specific license that focused on games would be better. One of the things that irks me about the OGL is that it purports to license you stuff that WOTC doesn't have a copyright in -- such as underlying game mechanics.
The one thing I would hate to see is a surge of competing, similar-but-not-identical licenses. I have to deal with this almost daily as part of my work - A project might entail dozens of resources under almost as many different versions of licenses, all of which have slight differences in what you are allowed to do, what you are required to do, and so on.
Granted, with RPGs, it won't be quite as much of an issue, since you're not really generally using a resource directly, like using a texture in a render, but still.
Quote from: Mistwell on January 10, 2023, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 10, 2023, 12:25:18 PM
I have a funny feeling that Wotc will back down to some degree due to the Wokesphere backlash because they are pussies.
Of all the topics to point to wokeism on, this is not one of them. EVERYONE is pissed about this. No matter your politics, EVERYONE is united in calling WOTC assholes right now. They're getting shots fired from pretty much every front. I seriously doubt any one is more important than the other when they're facing a hail of bullets.
I mean, the anti-woke guy who started that open letter is getting his letter signed by transgendered storygamers at this point. That's how united the opposition is right now. I have not seen worse PR and a more united RPG community pretty much ever. If they woke-sters could recruit JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle to speak out against WOTC right now, they probably would.
I wonder how RPG.net is doing right now. Do they think Cynthia Williams is in league with Pundit & Zak Sabbath to destroy the gaming industry? ;D
ENW seems to be doing well on the united front, apart from a few SJW digs by Ruin Explorer calling criticism of Cynthia Williams sexist, and Umbran telling me off for using Hitler & Putin analogies. ;D
Quote from: Bruwulf on January 10, 2023, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: amacris on January 10, 2023, 01:48:00 PM
They're being worked on. I'm working out whether one of the Creative Commons licenses might be suitable, or whether a more specific license that focused on games would be better. One of the things that irks me about the OGL is that it purports to license you stuff that WOTC doesn't have a copyright in -- such as underlying game mechanics.
The one thing I would hate to see is a surge of competing, similar-but-not-identical licenses. I have to deal with this almost daily as part of my work - A project might entail dozens of resources under almost as many different versions of licenses, all of which have slight differences in what you are allowed to do, what you are required to do, and so on.
Granted, with RPGs, it won't be quite as much of an issue, since you're not really generally using a resource directly, like using a texture in a render, but still.
Yeah. It would be really good if the biggest RPG company/companies would work on a license to save the smaller players problems with this. They can fund any lawyers to make it really watertight.
Oh, that's why we're in the current predicament!
I get what you're wanting and why you want it, but its sort of ironic that this situation has occurred when (I think) the OGL was developed to avoid it!
Quote from: Bruwulf on January 10, 2023, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: amacris on January 10, 2023, 01:48:00 PM
They're being worked on. I'm working out whether one of the Creative Commons licenses might be suitable, or whether a more specific license that focused on games would be better. One of the things that irks me about the OGL is that it purports to license you stuff that WOTC doesn't have a copyright in -- such as underlying game mechanics.
The one thing I would hate to see is a surge of competing, similar-but-not-identical licenses. I have to deal with this almost daily as part of my work - A project might entail dozens of resources under almost as many different versions of licenses, all of which have slight differences in what you are allowed to do, what you are required to do, and so on.
Granted, with RPGs, it won't be quite as much of an issue, since you're not really generally using a resource directly, like using a texture in a render, but still.
Not a lawyer but IMHO the CC By SA international 4.0 seems like a good fit, you can even declare what stuff isn't put under it like the art, name of the game, brands, etc.
Quote from: ponta1010 on January 10, 2023, 03:15:42 PM
I get what you're wanting and why you want it, but its sort of ironic that this situation has occurred when (I think) the OGL was developed to avoid it!
That was
never the point of the OGL.
An observation - while doing a BraveSearch on OGL1.1, forum entries for D&DBeyond popped up. So naturally my curiosity made me look.
While there are a few diehard defenders (who based on the different color for their names might even be staff), by and large WotC is even getting hammered for the OGL1.1 on their own forums with members saying they'll be canceling their D&DBeyond subscriptions if the OGL1.1 is instituted (talk's cheap, but the raw bulk of it adds up).
This is beyond "rolled a natural 1" territory for rollouts, this is "spilled chocolate sauce on the open face of the GM's favorite book because you were doing something stupid at the table" level horrible.
Funny thing, this.
I had someone say to me today that the OGL change would be a good thing because it's designed to reduce the amount of racist, homophobic, and transphobic content. I asked them to point out the statement of intent in that, and where it's lacking in the original OGL. It's not there. It never was. Just some mamby pamby standards of decency thing that does not spell those specific reasons she named out. Wishful thinking.
But everything I mentioned that is a warning sign of monopolistic greed is there in the leaked OGL, and this individual still stuck by their guns that what they say is the true intent of the new OGL.
Quote from: amacris on January 09, 2023, 09:35:10 PM
ACKS II will be OGL/SRD free
Will this also include fixing the Thief/Rogue equivalent class?
Quote from: Brad on January 10, 2023, 08:36:22 AM
Posted this is the other thread...no the OTHER one. Pundit needs to get on the ball and consolidate all this!
From troll Lord Games regarding the Hasbro/Wotc OGL 1.1.
TLG has been a longtime supporter of WoTC and Dungeons and Dragons. We started playing D&D in 1976. The news about the OGL 1.0 (a), if it is true, and it is important to note that as of this moment nothing official has been released, is rather disappointing. Supporting the new OGL, in the form it appeared in the leaked commentary, is not an option for us at TLG. If it manifests in this speculated form, it is an unnecessarily harsh treatment of the entire TTRPG family, those who played, play, and who publish. It is basically an admission of distrust in the people who play their game, the very ones who bring it to ever greater heights of expression. TLG does not share that philosophy. The only thing that maintains our stance in this ttrpg family is the family itself, creators, publishers, players, game masters, their own families, and friends who cheer them on from the sidelines. TLG will not sign this leaked OGL, nor participate in it in any way. Castles & Crusades and all the Siege Engine games are powered by the Siege Engine Attribute Check Mechanic, which is owned entirely by our parent company Chenault & Gray Publishing. What little pieces of the SRD leaked its way into our game over the years, we'll quietly remove, and carry on making and publishing games for us all to play.
The base system is safe, but I think a lot of the fluff (monsters, spells) is SRD. I'm curious if they could actually release another version of it without SRD content that isn't a second edition. It might actually be a good thing - if they're forced to do a second edition anyway, they can also clean up a few of the rough bits that have stuck with C&C for so long because they didn't want to do a new edition.
Kobold Press announces their plan to make their own RPG set of rules. It's called Project Black Flag.
https://koboldpress.com/raising-our-flag/ (https://koboldpress.com/raising-our-flag/)
Greetings!
Yeah, let WOTC burn. They are a garbage company, swimming in a Marxist, woke, corporatist sewer. Let them gargle with napalm.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on January 11, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Marxist, woke, corporatist sewer
I'm old enough to remember when "Marxist, corporatist" was a contradiction in terms! ;D It's a strange new world we live in.
Quote from: S'mon on January 11, 2023, 07:10:36 AM
Quote from: SHARK on January 11, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Marxist, woke, corporatist sewer
I'm old enough to remember when "Marxist, corporatist" was a contradiction in terms! ;D It's a strange new world we live in.
Right?!
About five or six years ago, I was arguing with someone on G+ who insisted "cultural Marxism" wasn't a thing because Marxism is economic in nature. So I asked what they call it when the principles of Marxism are applied in a social setting. They said "progressivism."
I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:42:11 AM
Quote from: S'mon on January 11, 2023, 07:10:36 AM
Quote from: SHARK on January 11, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Marxist, woke, corporatist sewer
I'm old enough to remember when "Marxist, corporatist" was a contradiction in terms! ;D It's a strange new world we live in.
Right?!
About five or six years ago, I was arguing with someone on G+ who insisted "cultural Marxism" wasn't a thing because Marxism is economic in nature. So I asked what they call it when the principles of Marxism are applied in a social setting. They said "progressivism."
I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes.
But is "progressivism" truly Marxist? In East Germany, for example, homosexuality was considered an expression of late capitalist degeneracy.
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 11, 2023, 08:51:16 AM
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:42:11 AM
Quote from: S'mon on January 11, 2023, 07:10:36 AM
Quote from: SHARK on January 11, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Marxist, woke, corporatist sewer
I'm old enough to remember when "Marxist, corporatist" was a contradiction in terms! ;D It's a strange new world we live in.
Right?!
About five or six years ago, I was arguing with someone on G+ who insisted "cultural Marxism" wasn't a thing because Marxism is economic in nature. So I asked what they call it when the principles of Marxism are applied in a social setting. They said "progressivism."
I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes.
But is "progressivism" truly Marxist? In East Germany, for example, homosexuality was considered an expression of late capitalist degeneracy.
It's veering close to the topic edge, but the gay agenda was pushed hard by the Marxists in Russia while they were rising to power as an example of capitalist degeneracy that they would then rise up and save the good normal people from with their new order. It's basically the same "government creates a problem and then runs on fixing the problem" tactic common to history.
Hasbro/WotC is fully onboard the cultural Marxist (i.e. CRT) train and has been sliding it into D&D for more than a decade now. The present system must be declared sexist, racist and bigoted so the new "Year Zero" system can replace it.
That's what all their language about canceling the "bigots" in the OGL1.1 is about. It's virtue signaling that past editions and past licenses were problematic and need to wiped away and those who refuse to update are villains who just want to hold onto their bigoted ways.
Huh, that ended up way more on topic than I thought.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 11, 2023, 08:51:16 AM
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:42:11 AM
About five or six years ago, I was arguing with someone on G+ who insisted "cultural Marxism" wasn't a thing because Marxism is economic in nature. So I asked what they call it when the principles of Marxism are applied in a social setting. They said "progressivism."
I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes.
But is "progressivism" truly Marxist? In East Germany, for example, homosexuality was considered an expression of late capitalist degeneracy.
I'm not the one who said it. Why ask me? I just thought it was funny that the person's idea of what "progressivism" was relied on collective bargaining and sharing of resources. Oh, and centralized authority!
Homosexuality, in and of itself, is apolitical. The fact that the East Germans tried to politicize it against the opponents (as leftists do now, but in reverse), is irrelevant, no?
Quote from: phydeaux on January 11, 2023, 08:59:01 AM
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.
Cool. Seriously, at this point about the only potentially OGL-related property we've yet to hear word from is Critical Role.
Regarding them; I know some people think they'll work out a special license, but Matt Mercer has been liking some anti-OGL1.1 tweets lately and has made a point about wanting full creative control of his brand.
A license doesn't get him that. Jumping on the anti-D&D bandwagon now that it's become massively unpopular (just as they flowed to it at the height of its popularity) and offering up their own game system to their own fans though? That absolutely would.
Once Critical Role is gone what WotC releases as OGL1.1 almost doesn't matter. Every content creator they hoped to capture will be gone from their grip and the only things still on the OGL1.0a will be non-commercial archives and already defunct systems.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 11, 2023, 08:51:16 AM
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:42:11 AM
About five or six years ago, I was arguing with someone on G+ who insisted "cultural Marxism" wasn't a thing because Marxism is economic in nature. So I asked what they call it when the principles of Marxism are applied in a social setting. They said "progressivism."
I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes.
But is "progressivism" truly Marxist? In East Germany, for example, homosexuality was considered an expression of late capitalist degeneracy.
I'm not the one who said it. Why ask me? I just thought it was funny that the person's idea of what "progressivism" was relied on collective bargaining and sharing of resources. Oh, and centralized authority!
Homosexuality, in and of itself, is apolitical. The fact that the East Germans tried to politicize it against the opponents (as leftists do now, but in reverse), is irrelevant, no?
It wasn't directed against you personally. Just a general observation on my part.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 09:13:48 AM
Quote from: phydeaux on January 11, 2023, 08:59:01 AM
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.
Cool. Seriously, at this point about the only potentially OGL-related property we've yet to hear word from is Critical Role.
Regarding them; I know some people think they'll work out a special license, but Matt Mercer has been liking some anti-OGL1.1 tweets lately and has made a point about wanting full creative control of his brand.
A license doesn't get him that. Jumping on the anti-D&D bandwagon now that it's become massively unpopular (just as they flowed to it at the height of its popularity) and offering up their own game system to their own fans though? That absolutely would.
Once Critical Role is gone what WotC releases as OGL1.1 almost doesn't matter. Every content creator they hoped to capture will be gone from their grip and the only things still on the OGL1.0a will be non-commercial archives and already defunct systems.
Yeah, Critical Role, more than Kobold Press, is in the best position to deliver a Pathfinder repeat. Not in the sense of a more or less clone system being released, but in the sense of providing serious competition and causing D&D to massively undersell based on expectations.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 11, 2023, 09:53:13 AM
It wasn't directed against you personally. Just a general observation on my part.
Oh, no worries. I can certainly opine on the similarities between Marxism and modern progressivism v classical progressivism, but I don't want to poop up the thread with politics. :)
Quote from: migo on January 11, 2023, 09:59:18 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 09:13:48 AM
Quote from: phydeaux on January 11, 2023, 08:59:01 AM
Kenzer & Co has stated their RPG line is Non-OGL and will not be directly affected. This includes Hackmaster and Aces & Eights.
Cool. Seriously, at this point about the only potentially OGL-related property we've yet to hear word from is Critical Role.
Regarding them; I know some people think they'll work out a special license, but Matt Mercer has been liking some anti-OGL1.1 tweets lately and has made a point about wanting full creative control of his brand.
A license doesn't get him that. Jumping on the anti-D&D bandwagon now that it's become massively unpopular (just as they flowed to it at the height of its popularity) and offering up their own game system to their own fans though? That absolutely would.
Once Critical Role is gone what WotC releases as OGL1.1 almost doesn't matter. Every content creator they hoped to capture will be gone from their grip and the only things still on the OGL1.0a will be non-commercial archives and already defunct systems.
Yeah, Critical Role, more than Kobold Press, is in the best position to deliver a Pathfinder repeat. Not in the sense of a more or less clone system being released, but in the sense of providing serious competition and causing D&D to massively undersell based on expectations.
Wait until season two of Vox Machina on Amazon outperforms Honor Among Thieves in theaters and Hasbro realizing they could have had CR/LoVM as basically free advertising for D&D if they weren't a bunch of greedy first-stage thinkers.
Also, given their "lifestyle brand" push and how WotC handled the Star Wars license, I'm certain the current layout plan for the 6e books is chock full of stills and concept art from the movie. That's gonna be a painful reminder when the movie bombs* and they're stuck with the stink unless they commission a bunch of replacement art.**
* which, again, has almost nothing to do with the OneD&D debacle and everything to do with it being marketed just like an MCU film in an era of MCU fatigue, Chris Pine as Chris Pine, and tightening discretionary budgets that make splurging on anything but the truly special (ex. coming out to see the full-throated pro-America masterfully filmed nostalgia fest of "Top Gun: Maverick"). Honor Among Thieves looks like every other generic Hollywood fx-laden sci-fi/fantasy action-comedy (complete with rock music soundtrack for the trailer full of what you know are the funniest and most action packed parts of the film) that can easily be skipped.
** though if it were me in charge of what is basically the 50th Anniversary edition (and me not needing it to be Year Zero) I'd be using classic full color paintings from D&D's heyday for EVERYTHING. Particularly since they probably retain the rights to most of it.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 09, 2023, 10:21:20 PM
Dungeons and Delvers Red Book is OGL, but Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool version, which is the version I like, has never been an OGL. It was unique from day one. I would say the dice from Savage Worlds, the skills and attributes from D6 Star Wars, with a system of D&D classes. Sold on an online store created in response to woke censorship on Drivethru. Site made by the guys at Bigus Geekus podcast. Big Geek Emporium.
https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/ (https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/)
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not OGL. It's big thing is character progression. Every level from 1-10 (the max level is 10) is a bonus from your race, your first profession, your 2nd middle profession, or your 3rd master profession. You also don't roll any bonuses. If two players pick identical choices, their characters will numerically be identical. But with dozens of options, it's not likely two characters will be the same.
Dragon Warriors is not OGL. It uses the D20, but is a roll under system. Also, weapons do a fixed damage, but have a variable armor penetration dice used to beat armor. Armor has a single digit target number called Armor Bypass. Magic spells use magic points.
Overall Dragon Warriors is almost an OSR, but they've modified each part of the game to be it's own thing. But they're simple things, so it's easy to pick up.
Those are the three games I'm interested in right now that are classically similar to D&D, but altered enough to be standalone and not use the OGL
Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.
Quote from: RebelSky on January 11, 2023, 01:48:46 PM
Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.
I just pulled my hardcopy off the shelf and confirmed this. Oversight or deliberate? There's no mention of OGC or the OGL in the front material, either.
Quote from: RebelSky on January 11, 2023, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 09, 2023, 10:21:20 PM
Dungeons and Delvers Red Book is OGL, but Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool version, which is the version I like, has never been an OGL. It was unique from day one. I would say the dice from Savage Worlds, the skills and attributes from D6 Star Wars, with a system of D&D classes. Sold on an online store created in response to woke censorship on Drivethru. Site made by the guys at Bigus Geekus podcast. Big Geek Emporium.
https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/ (https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/)
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not OGL. It's big thing is character progression. Every level from 1-10 (the max level is 10) is a bonus from your race, your first profession, your 2nd middle profession, or your 3rd master profession. You also don't roll any bonuses. If two players pick identical choices, their characters will numerically be identical. But with dozens of options, it's not likely two characters will be the same.
Dragon Warriors is not OGL. It uses the D20, but is a roll under system. Also, weapons do a fixed damage, but have a variable armor penetration dice used to beat armor. Armor has a single digit target number called Armor Bypass. Magic spells use magic points.
Overall Dragon Warriors is almost an OSR, but they've modified each part of the game to be it's own thing. But they're simple things, so it's easy to pick up.
Those are the three games I'm interested in right now that are classically similar to D&D, but altered enough to be standalone and not use the OGL
Dungeons and Delver's Red Book has no OGL document in the book.
Yeah, but it's based on the earlier Dungeons and Delvers Black Book, just with all the goodies from supplements added in, and the Black Book does have OGL 1.0a in it.
I think Red Book Delvers ought to be fine as is, but David Guyll and I email occasionally about the Dice Pool version. I found typos and errors, so we're working on an updated version of the dice pool game with the fixes, like the filled out example character sheet that was missing the Kobold's racial Talent of Invisibility even after it's mentioned in the text that the Kobold chose that.
I'm not sure I should say anything, but David is well aware his Red Book is very D&D-like. I think it's fine, but he's making contingencies plans if he needs to distance his game from any OGL backlash. I bet he won't need to.