Orcs have always been pig faced humanoids in my campaigns. Goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are all related but orcs are distinctly different.

Orks are their own race, descended from the Jötnar (like Men, Elves, Dwarves, Ogres and Changelings). More specifically, the Orkneas are as most (but not all) Orks are actually 'zombies' (aka Ork Spawn) raised from the dead corpses of victims of a special ritual. There are 'lesser Ork Spawn' who are called Dreg Orks that are raised from the corpses of dead domesticated animals. Orks and Dreg Orks can 'evolve' after creating a 'Hive'. Dreg Orks, Ork Spawn and Orks (biologically born) can become Ork Champions by fighting amongst each other (often in a brutal free for all where only the strongest survive).

Smarter Orks can evolve to be  Ork Shamans, Ork Witch Doctors or Ork Warlocks.

Finally, Ork Champions and Ork Shamans can evolve to be an Ork Lord, the one who leads a Hive.

Dreg Orks are the most likely to murder each other and the most feral. They are sterile and have base animal intelligence.

Female Orks do exist and can give birth to Ork children (male and female) and Half-Orks (though most Half-Orks result from rape of females of other humans like Men and Elves, though not Dwarves or Changelings).

Orkneas numbers are very low and are very long-lived (like Dwarves and Elves). They are the only ones who know the ritual to create more Ork Spawn. They are less likely to murder each other and rarely even control the Hives of Ork Spawn they create. They are basically solitary creatures and only come to together infrequently to procreate to have more of their own kind.

Goblins and Hobgoblins, on the other hand, are evil Faeries that have become corrupted. Otherwise, they pretty much are your bog-standard D&D-style Goblin: a pint-sized, pointy-eared, green-skinned murder machine. Hobgoblins are the stronger and smarter ones who grow to be much larger than Goblins (who are generally the same size as Hauflins & Gnomes). They reproduce normally.

Kobolds are evil Gnomes who fell into corruption and became twisted. They are more like Spriggans and less like D&D mini-doggo dragons.

Greetings!

Yeah, I voted with Orcs and Goblins being separate, distinct races of creatures.

In my world of Thandor, Orcs are a brutal humanoid race, alongside Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and son on. A mortal race, firmly of the earth and the mortal world. Goblins are a somewhat civilized mortal race as well, with their own society, culture, city-states, and so on. Then, I have Gremlins, which are more Faerie-based Goblin-like creatures, with magical powers and such. Hobgoblins are a mortal race, like Orcs and Goblins, though they also have their own distinct society and culture.

I like having different races, with their own distinct cultures, societies, and religions.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The one time I tried to make custom orcs they wound being standard pig face orcs who were the result of centuries of degenerated humans mating with a physical manifestation of Orcus...on the isle of orkney. yeah. just like that.

Quote from: Slipshot762 on March 26, 2024, 08:13:52 PM
The one time I tried to make custom orcs they wound being standard pig face orcs who were the result of centuries of degenerated humans mating with a physical manifestation of Orcus...on the isle of orkney. yeah. just like that.

That's as bad a pun as Games Workshop having The Isle Of Wights off the coast of Albion.

I approve.

Piggy faces!  In my campaign, Orcs are a separate race.  Goblins and Hobgoblins are related, and much like in LOTR, Hobgoblins (Uruks) dominate goblins when interacting.

Quote from: David Johansen on March 24, 2024, 11:56:43 PM
I'm afraid it just depends on the game.  I lean towards tribes and cultures having different names.  So they call them orc over here and goblins over there.  Sometimes different variations will exist.  Still, I generally associate goblins with faerie and I don't associate orcs with that.  But if I'm running Middle Earth the goblins are just smaller orcs and if I'm runnning Yrth they're totally unrealted species.

Agreed. Depends on the setting, so I can't really vote.

Orcs are pig faced and fully material, goblins are fey creatures which are more material than other fey, but still a lot less material than regular creatures.

Material is probably the wrong way to describe that, but I can't think of somethign better, hopefully yall get what I'm saying.

I've never had orcs and goblins related in any way.  Until Warhammer 40k decided to have only one "essence" to explain their greenskins (that's more realistic for a science fiction campaign), I'd never heard of anyone making them the same things at all.  I'd argue that anyone doing that has derived it from WH40k.

I will point out that orc-goblin crossbreeds are referenced in AD&D, but I'm not sure that they are statted out anywhere.  In any event, they are clearly a crossbreed in the same vein of the familiar half-orc in human territories.

Of course they're different, and hobgoblins are different from goblins, at least in the MM and whatnot.

Quote from: Venka on March 27, 2024, 11:56:26 AM
I've never had orcs and goblins related in any way.  Until Warhammer 40k decided to have only one "essence" to explain their greenskins (that's more realistic for a science fiction campaign), I'd never heard of anyone making them the same things at all.  I'd argue that anyone doing that has derived it from WH40k.

Tolkien's orcs were also called goblins.

Quote from: J.R.R. Tolkien, Preface to The HobbitOrc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places [in The Hobbit] but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds).

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 27, 2024, 12:42:43 PM
Tolkien's orcs were also called goblins.

Quote from: J.R.R. Tolkien, Preface to The HobbitOrc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places [in The Hobbit] but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds).

Great find, I had no idea. In that conception, they are literally the same creature with different names (not like WH40K, which has them sorted by sizes and roles but with the same fungal origin).

The first orc I saw is green and not pig-faced, so that may have influenced my image of an orc.

They look more like alligators, right? (The picture is from the D&D cartoon.)

Quote from: SHARK on March 26, 2024, 08:22:03 AM
I like having different races, with their own distinct cultures, societies, and religions.

I guess that's the question. How do you make the culture distinct. I can handle the religious part but culture m, well the orcs are fighting and dead before I can get any cultural details out.

Quote from: Ruprecht on March 27, 2024, 03:58:58 PM

Quote from: SHARK on March 26, 2024, 08:22:03 AM
I like having different races, with their own distinct cultures, societies, and religions.

I guess that's the question. How do you make the culture distinct. I can handle the religious part but culture m, well the orcs are fighting and dead before I can get any cultural details out.

Greetings!

Yes, Ruprecht! Making cultures distinct and interesting can be a challenge. Doing so also requires some good amount of planning, thought, and work. So, for example, I have in my Thandor world, a culture of Orcs known as the Khordron Horde. The Khordron Horde Orcs are savage and brutal, though they have also embraced advanced forms of technology, knowledge, organization, and culture. These developments, in turn, have cascade effects which have combined to make the Khordron Horde Orcs, as a nation, a kingdom, and a culture, very distinct from other Orc cultures. The Khordron Orcs have embraced advanced, industrial-scale agriculture, Institutional Slavery, organized technology, and an organized, hierarchical religion. Along with these changes, the Khordron Horde Orcs have also developed a more advanced and organized system of government and laws. Having a huge, unified, powerful Orc kingdom that is more or less High-Medieval makes for a very different kind of "Orc." Blend all of that with customs of eating humans, mass slavery, ritual sacrifice, gladiator arenas, and a society that glorifies the military, and martial, masculine values at every step, and that creates a radically different kind of Orc culture. Players encountering such NPC Khordron characters, or visiting a Khordron Orc city, are in store for a very different kind of experience.

I have another Orc culture, that is more rural based, not quite as sophisticated, that is more based upon Nordic cultures, themes, and values. Of course, these Orcs are also less organized, somewhat more tribal, and yet also highly skilled as seafarers and ship-builders. They live mostly in fortified villages and towns, as opposed to cities. They have agriculture, but it is more diffused, and not as organized. However, they are much more focused on seafaring, river trade, river travel, and fishing, than other kinds of Orcs.

A third prominent Orc culture in Thandor is a culture of Orcs that primarily live in subterranean realms, living in fortified villages and towns, though which are dug and formed from tunnels, caverns, dungeons, and chambers. These subterranean Orcs are also interbred and mixed with humanoid insects, which provides some insect-like features, insect-like mutations, and a culture which is insect-themed as a whole.

Each different culture worships a common religion, composed of a large pantheon of deities. However, each culture embraces some particular favourite deities and their corresponding cults, and emphasize them to different degrees wwithin their individual culture.

These three different Orc cultures embrace some similarities, for sure. However, there are numerous distinctions and differences, from religious spirituality, to social customs, breeding, mating rituals, government and social organization, that serves to make them considerably different from each other.

Does that help, Ruprecht?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK