QuoteThe Pathfinder Wokeness is *Vastly* Overstated. Yes, it's there.... but it's easily ignorable. Wizard's of the Coast has seemed like they were specifically going out of their way to OUT woke Pathfinder.

I don't think so. Official HASBRO productions are not even close in woke, progressive content compared to Golarion. Difference is that PAIZO were simply progressive from the start, just getting more bold - so it does not stick as sore thumb. Even reading older Pathfinder material it's quite close. And yeah that's also in classic fantasy paradigm.

WOTC sticks as fake and ghey way more even though they made less clearly woke material, because they are obviously fake corporate hacks to the bone. There is not one honest bone in their whole creative crew.

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 18, 2023, 04:12:51 PM

QuoteThe Pathfinder Wokeness is *Vastly* Overstated. Yes, it's there.... but it's easily ignorable. Wizard's of the Coast has seemed like they were specifically going out of their way to OUT woke Pathfinder.

I don't think so. Official HASBRO productions are not even close in woke, progressive content compared to Golarion. Difference is that PAIZO were simply progressive from the start, just getting more bold - so it does not stick as sore thumb. Even reading older Pathfinder material it's quite close. And yeah that's also in classic fantasy paradigm.

WOTC sticks as fake and ghey way more even though they made less clearly woke material, because they are obviously fake corporate hacks to the bone. There is not one honest bone in their whole creative crew.

Tales of the Radian Citadel, CruxHaven, The Changes to SpellJammer, going back to Rewokify Curse of Strahd, and the optional rules in Tasha's Caludron now being the main rules (no mechanical differences between the races at all) and the removal of inherently evil races is what puts Wizard's of the Coast over Golarion.

Pathfinder is getting rid of Alignment too (Because of Legal reasons) but they still have inherently evil beings, as they've replaced it with the "Holy" and "Unholy" traits... and it's specifically stated in the remaster "Holy" is what we would call 'good' while "Unholy" is evil.

Demons and Devils aren't inherently evil anymore in WotC's D&D, but they're still inherently Unholy in Pathfinder.

1. Game mechanics can absolutely be patented, if they pass muster. Legal requirements are set by the patent office. Nothing in D&D ever was, but the "tapping" card mechanic for Magic: the Gathering was.

2. The text of game mechanics can be copyrighted, and all work you produce in the US is by default unless you release it into the public domain or under some other license. (Insert various thorny legal issues here.) Exception for descriptions of mechanics that are so simple, basic, and clear that it is effectively impossible to describe the mechanic any other way.

3. Names can be trademarked. This doesn't really relate to game mechanics, most of the time. Game systems yes, individual mechanics not usually.

This is correct information but IANAL and this is not legal advice.

Quote from: Orphan81 on November 18, 2023, 04:33:18 PM

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 18, 2023, 04:12:51 PM

QuoteThe Pathfinder Wokeness is *Vastly* Overstated. Yes, it's there.... but it's easily ignorable. Wizard's of the Coast has seemed like they were specifically going out of their way to OUT woke Pathfinder.

I don't think so. Official HASBRO productions are not even close in woke, progressive content compared to Golarion. Difference is that PAIZO were simply progressive from the start, just getting more bold - so it does not stick as sore thumb. Even reading older Pathfinder material it's quite close. And yeah that's also in classic fantasy paradigm.

WOTC sticks as fake and ghey way more even though they made less clearly woke material, because they are obviously fake corporate hacks to the bone. There is not one honest bone in their whole creative crew.

Tales of the Radian Citadel, CruxHaven, The Changes to SpellJammer, going back to Rewokify Curse of Strahd, and the optional rules in Tasha's Caludron now being the main rules (no mechanical differences between the races at all) and the removal of inherently evil races is what puts Wizard's of the Coast over Golarion.

Pathfinder is getting rid of Alignment too (Because of Legal reasons) but they still have inherently evil beings, as they've replaced it with the "Holy" and "Unholy" traits... and it's specifically stated in the remaster "Holy" is what we would call 'good' while "Unholy" is evil.

Demons and Devils aren't inherently evil anymore in WotC's D&D, but they're still inherently Unholy in Pathfinder.

Correct. The Remaster is jettisoning a LOT of the last remnants of 3E/PF1E that were clinging to PF2E. But there are still heroes and villains.

Meanwhile, WotC's busy scrubbing all their source material for 'sensitivity'.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on November 16, 2023, 08:25:38 PM
I knew ORC was a lie from the outset.

And honestly it is unneeded unless you honestly plan on making supplements for games under, which that seems to be bunk as well.

Creative Commons is for based people.

Yesss!!! I personally like CC BY-SA. But I see the argument for Attribution only. Of course, there is the profit motive question. Chris Gonnerman jokes that he started Basic Fantasy so he could get people to write adventures for him for free. I do think there is some money to be made in open culture gaming, though.

I haven't watched the video in full, but I did read the blog post.

It seems to me that the dev team for Pathfinder Infinite already had plans for how they wanted to license their game out, and that included flavor railings to keep low-effort kitbashing with other games away from Pathfinder Infinite, and that doesn't fit into the ORC License. These products and the rough sketch for how their licenses would work were probably sketched out long before the OGL nonsense and Paizo even started writing up the ORC.

I don't think this is a big issue, but it does raise an eyebrow that Paizo can spend all this effort and PR to promote ORC but didn't even consult their own employees about what they needed for their projects so they could standardize licenses.

Quote from: Corolinth on November 17, 2023, 06:49:20 PM

Quote from: nielspeterdejong on November 17, 2023, 07:39:30 AM
I just hope that they didn't add too much woke BS. I am currently playing Giantslayer with my group, which was from 2015, and aside from the lesbian dwarf/orc relationship (degeneracy on two accounts!) and the occasional female leader, it seems pretty non-woke to me. We have a fat overweight and ugly hill giant woman who keeps proposing to this giant king, and was rejected and now cries about it in her diary we just found, and we have giants literally killing people and a bunch of orcs pitting a captured dwarf ranger (equipped with only a mithryl frying pan) against several bears (the dwarf being our companion, who was able to score a critical hit with his frying pan against one of the charging bears, to the point that one of the other bears got tamed by him and his skill rolls, which was awesome!), so plenty of animal cruelty and making fun of fat women, so not that much woke stuff so far aside from the occasional hot lesbian couple.

I just hope that it stays that way, and that not too many of my books (up until 2017-2018 I believe) have that nonsense put into them.

Paizo is about five years ahead of WotC for woke. Pathfinder products steadily ramp up the rainbow mafia token inclusion, because James Jacobs has to have a character in each book who is trans, so that his fellow Seattle residents can tell him what a good ally he is for queer inclusion.

I haven't read Giantslayer, but I'm betting that either the dwarf or the orc was born a man, but then found a girdle of opposite gender that turned him into the lesbian he always was deep down inside. You see, while it isn't something the PCs will ever have any reason to learn about a random NPC, it's totally something that has to be written into the books so that the reader can know there's representation happening in Paizo products.

Also it's kind of impossible to ignore how many of the major world leaders in Golarion are women. This actually gets started as early as 2008. The Paizo staff have been very concerned with making sure that Golarion isn't perpetuating patriarchy. They become increasingly concerned about male gaze as time goes by, too.

By 2015, Pathfinder has become woke as shit, it just doesn't seem that way now because they've been steadily turning up the dial.

Yeah, I noticed that all the leaders were female for some reason as well, or there was a female paladin in Giantslayer. A female half orc leader of the human village, a lesbian dwarf/half-orc couple, a female orc captain on the ship, a female hill giant leader... Honestly, it is a bit glaring, but I'm at least willing to overlook that somewhat since most of them are attractive (aside from the fat ugly hill giant leader, who is mocked for being fat). So while that was in it, it wasn't as bad as it currently is fortunately.

Honestly, I noticed that while most of the Pathfinder 1E fans were old school 3.5 D&D guy friends, who don't care much about woke stuff, some of them have turned into woke and linger around on reddit forums and discord channels. Had a discussion just with one who unironically believed in "the patriarchy" and how we should add in "inclusivity" while, of course, his entire friend group was white old men XD These people only believe in a diverse society while their own neighborhood is still completely white. If that changes even slightly, like in New York where they finally start feeling the pain of unlimited immigration just a little bit, they very quickly change their tune.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 19, 2023, 04:24:03 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on November 18, 2023, 04:33:18 PM

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 18, 2023, 04:12:51 PM

QuoteThe Pathfinder Wokeness is *Vastly* Overstated. Yes, it's there.... but it's easily ignorable. Wizard's of the Coast has seemed like they were specifically going out of their way to OUT woke Pathfinder.

I don't think so. Official HASBRO productions are not even close in woke, progressive content compared to Golarion. Difference is that PAIZO were simply progressive from the start, just getting more bold - so it does not stick as sore thumb. Even reading older Pathfinder material it's quite close. And yeah that's also in classic fantasy paradigm.

WOTC sticks as fake and ghey way more even though they made less clearly woke material, because they are obviously fake corporate hacks to the bone. There is not one honest bone in their whole creative crew.

Tales of the Radian Citadel, CruxHaven, The Changes to SpellJammer, going back to Rewokify Curse of Strahd, and the optional rules in Tasha's Caludron now being the main rules (no mechanical differences between the races at all) and the removal of inherently evil races is what puts Wizard's of the Coast over Golarion.

Pathfinder is getting rid of Alignment too (Because of Legal reasons) but they still have inherently evil beings, as they've replaced it with the "Holy" and "Unholy" traits... and it's specifically stated in the remaster "Holy" is what we would call 'good' while "Unholy" is evil.

Demons and Devils aren't inherently evil anymore in WotC's D&D, but they're still inherently Unholy in Pathfinder.

Correct. The Remaster is jettisoning a LOT of the last remnants of 3E/PF1E that were clinging to PF2E. But there are still heroes and villains.

Meanwhile, WotC's busy scrubbing all their source material for 'sensitivity'.

Yeah, and those last remnants of 3E/PF1E are what made Paizo and the hobby great in the first place. Now it is just boring and everything is pretty much the same! I mean, I like options, but the core classes need to be unique and have their own feel. Now a wizard and a fighter can both do area of effect damage (the wizard slightly more, but still...) and they feel too much like the same. Spellcasters in PF2E can only just cast a few spells per day, and then spam cantrips.

I mean, I like scaling cantrips, which is why I added them as an optional rule for my Pathfinder 1st edition homebrew and guide 8-page PDF:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XNgxsZwfWU4QQHTSIA9UInIaSkgb7uiI/view

But I still kept it limited as the idea was still that spells are valuable and that if you want to have a good prolonged combat fighter then the martial classes are your thing. And if you still feel like the martial classes underperform compared to spellcasters as the mid and higher levels, you can just use the awesome Path of War 3rd party books (But only their archetypes for the main core classes like rogue and fighter, and the Martial Training and Advanced Study feats, for the sake of balance, see also the guide). But overall 3E/PF1E was great from a combat perspective due to how realistic it felt and how the positioning and location on the board had such a big impact. These days people want to make things "simpler" and more "streamlined", and while I understand the appeal it just isn't the same thing.

So yeah, for Pathfinder 1E at least, it seems like the woke stuff are few and far in between, and if you can ignore them (or if your DM leaves them out) you will have a great time with those books still. As it was still somewhat old school and respectful to the old legends. Pathfinder after 2015/2018 however, not so much. Thanks to Paizo, 3.5 not only survived it even thrived for a while, but those days are over. It is best to drop Paizo at this point, and only use the PF1E books, and not be sad that it is over but instead be happy that it happened.

"Banned" implies an active choice. The ORC simply isn't compatible with the arrangement that is currently in place for their Community Content programs. They are still OGL-based, for good and ill.

The Remastered rulebooks are in fact just chock full of open content. You can publish your own Pathfinder 2, right now.