Quote from: Krazz on September 01, 2024, 02:01:20 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PM...

2.

Quote1950s and 60s "Golden Age of Capitalism"

: I have never heard of this period referred to in such a way by any historian, or in any historical context. In regards to the 20th century, you can break things down into pre-ww2 and post-ww2 eras, which there are distinct differences when analyzed. the 50s and 60s are definitely post-ww2. The details of which can be easily researched and can quite easily debunked the juvenile, simplistic, and Marxist historical view the author holds.

Late stage capitalism was initially defined to begin immediately after WWI, so technically all of those periods are late stage capitalism. But like all groups that declare the end of the world is coming, socialists have to keep moving up the dates when it frustratingly fails to happen.

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PM...
EDIT: I'm not even going to go into the "fascist" statement. That's just a childish view of the world. Period.

The guy who came up with this idea of stages of capitalism, including late stage capitalism, (Werner Sombart) was a Nazi sympathiser.

Can they go on the Consumer's Guide to TTRPGs as red with a note that they use Nazi terminology, I wonder?

Which confirms even more that the author of the game is not only a Marxist boob, but an idiotic Marxist boob.

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 07:47:07 PM

Quote from: Krazz on September 01, 2024, 02:01:20 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PM...

2.

Quote1950s and 60s "Golden Age of Capitalism"

: I have never heard of this period referred to in such a way by any historian, or in any historical context. In regards to the 20th century, you can break things down into pre-ww2 and post-ww2 eras, which there are distinct differences when analyzed. the 50s and 60s are definitely post-ww2. The details of which can be easily researched and can quite easily debunked the juvenile, simplistic, and Marxist historical view the author holds.

Late stage capitalism was initially defined to begin immediately after WWI, so technically all of those periods are late stage capitalism. But like all groups that declare the end of the world is coming, socialists have to keep moving up the dates when it frustratingly fails to happen.

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PM...
EDIT: I'm not even going to go into the "fascist" statement. That's just a childish view of the world. Period.

The guy who came up with this idea of stages of capitalism, including late stage capitalism, (Werner Sombart) was a Nazi sympathiser.

Can they go on the Consumer's Guide to TTRPGs as red with a note that they use Nazi terminology, I wonder?

Which confirms even more that the author of the game is not only a Marxist boob, but an idiotic Marxist boob.

Is there any other kind?

It's always amusing to see someone so wrong in calling someone else wrong? I mean, I'm disappointed in the game's extremity, but as much as my friend-group liked Cowboy Bebop in the late 90s when we ran out of Babylon 5 to watch, I don't think I'm in the target market. Still, facts and history matter:

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PMWow. How to break down how incredibly WRONG the author of this game is, in regards to history:
...
but to get into the stupidly categorized bits...

2.

Quote1950s and 60s "Golden Age of Capitalism"

: I have never heard of this period referred to in such a way by any historian, or in any historical context. In regards to the 20th century, you can break things down into pre-ww2 and post-ww2 eras, which there are distinct differences when analyzed. the 50s and 60s are definitely post-ww2. The details of which can be easily researched and can quite easily debunked the juvenile, simplistic, and Marxist historical view the author holds.

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_economic_expansion: "The post–World War II economic expansion, also known as the postwar economic boom or the Golden Age of Capitalism" - with citations to historians from 1992.

Quote3.

Quotethe early 90s and the closing of the "Decade of Greed," when the glossy paintwork of late-stage capitalism began to chip away.

: even more so than the previous statement I covered, this is just pure fiction. Nobody but a leftist boob would call this decade the "Decade of Greed". What a preposterous statement. So to a Marxist, the decades following the post-cold war era, where the obvious failed utopias of Marxist-Leninist-Moaist ideology crumbled to dust, which led to one of the greatest economic booms of the 20th century since the end of both world wars, is a decade of greed. If that's the case, then we need to shut down every McDonald's, Starbucks, and any other Western company east of the Volga. I'm sure folks in Poland and Romania are pining for the glory days of standing in line for toilet paper and bread. Right...

Try "Farber, David (2019). Crack: Rock Cocaine, Street Capitalism, and the Decade of Greed. Cambridge University Press." Or any of the other many hits for this phrase that Google will happily provide for you if you type "define decade of greed" into your favourite search box. If you want someone who's not "lefty Marxist" try the National Review in 2004: "The 1980s were a "Decade of Greed." There were, no doubt, individual incidents of conspicuous consumption and selfish disregard for the welfare of others."

The quotes the OP calls out suggests that this game is probably too slanted for me to be comfortable reworking it for my table. I didn't buy Salvage Union for that reason. And I'm avoiding D&D 6e for the same reason from the opposite side, even though it might be reworkable. But "Hurr Durr Marxist" isn't a critique of game quality OR of politics.

I appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

Regarding the cop jab in the feat description. I remember back when all the ACAB stuff really started taking off for the first time, around the death of saint Floyd, I went to several BLM related websites because I wanted to know what their alternatives to policing were. Their articles and FAQs were heavy with progressive and marxist pseudo-intellectual babble, but if you can discern meaning from it, you find out that they still want policing, just police that are trained to enforce laws through a marxist political lens. They don't call it policing though of course. Some of the more radical ones wanted race based policing, "marginalized communities" could only be policed by someone from the same community. So the next time you hear any anti-cop rhetoric from a marxist, remember that they aren't upset at police corruption and brutality, they're upset the cops aren't marxist commissars instead.

Also sorry I can't provide any specific examples, it was years ago and I didn't think to save a link at that time. Some of the organizations are probably defunct by now I think.

"Decade of Greed" is used for the nasty Reaganite 1980s not the lovely fluffy Bill Clinton 1990s.

Virtue signaling 101.

"from faded 1950s and 60s "Golden
Age of Capitalism" looks to the landscapes of the early 90s
and the closing of the "Decade of Greed," when the glossy
paintwork of late-stage capitalism began to chip away."

Late-stage capitalism? So are we having a communist revolution right now?

Quote from: S'mon on September 02, 2024, 04:44:16 AM"Decade of Greed" is used for the nasty Reaganite 1980s not the lovely fluffy Bill Clinton 1990s.

Yes that's how I understand it too. BTW I'm pretty sure if you ask people like this, they will not say Bill Clinton was lovely. More like Clinton = misguided, Reagan = EVIL.

The strangest contradiction in woke TTRPGs is the idea of telling players how they are suppose to RP.  The real beauty of RP in my mind is the way players take on both individual challenges and the setting as a whole.  Also, it completely legitimate to explore a setting to play as various strata of a culture. 

The only thing I can think is that they are trying to force a type of thinking as a form of indoctrination.  Their handbook for how to form a perfect society clearly outlines mass murder and genocide as a required step.  Fuck them.

Quote from: Trond on September 02, 2024, 08:21:03 AM"from faded 1950s and 60s "Golden
Age of Capitalism" looks to the landscapes of the early 90s
and the closing of the "Decade of Greed," when the glossy
paintwork of late-stage capitalism began to chip away."

Late-stage capitalism? So are we having a communist revolution right now?

Yes, we are seeing the beginning efforts of the revolution in the US right now.  That's what BLM and AntiFa is part of.

Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMthis isn't Twitter.

Here's why dice ladders are good:
1. BtN is made for sandboxing, tools like the dice ladder help you give bonus/penalty to all kinds of things in a regular way, from armor values to poison potency.
2. Gives GM and player a way to quickly eyeball damage/armor values. If you are facing a guy with a gun 4 steps above your armor, you know it's a dangerous fight.

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 01, 2024, 10:11:07 AMSo its "Soyboy Bebop" then.

Close the thread boys, no one's topping this one.

Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMI appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

Sure!

I first encountered dice ladders with Alternity. In the rules, dice ladders look like a novel way to use all of the dice in your collection in game. In actual play, I found them to be time consuming and cumbersome because you end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll and it just doubles when you have opposing rolls. It is the antithesis of a system designed for fast cinematic action or definitive results IMHO.

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PM

Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMI appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

Sure!

I first encountered dice ladders with Alternity. In the rules, dice ladders look like a novel way to use all of the dice in your collection in game. In actual play, I found them to be time consuming and cumbersome because you end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll and it just doubles when you have opposing rolls. It is the antithesis of a system designed for fast cinematic action or definitive results IMHO.

Question: Would you call Savage Worlds a dice ladder system? I generally do, because you improve your stats by upgrading the die type rolled, but it sounds like you're using it specifically for games where the die type you roll changes based on in-game circumstance.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 01, 2024, 09:28:52 AMThe first part wasn't bad (subject matter and the like; I no longer consider that "woke" because there's a lot of weirdos playing RPGs now) but the next part was 100% virtue signaling woke crap, and the last solidified it as being an agenda.

 Never heard of this and it seems that was for the best.

That part was very woke.

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 02, 2024, 02:02:08 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PM

Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMI appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

Sure!

I first encountered dice ladders with Alternity. In the rules, dice ladders look like a novel way to use all of the dice in your collection in game. In actual play, I found them to be time consuming and cumbersome because you end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll and it just doubles when you have opposing rolls. It is the antithesis of a system designed for fast cinematic action or definitive results IMHO.

Question: Would you call Savage Worlds a dice ladder system? I generally do, because you improve your stats by upgrading the die type rolled, but it sounds like you're using it specifically for games where the die type you roll changes based on in-game circumstance.

On opposed rolls, yes. Normally you are trying to roll against a target number though, IIRC. I'm only very familiar with the Deadlands proto-Savage Worlds where you had to have what I consider a lot of extraneous crap just to play (like a deck of cards).