Orbital Blues seems pretty woke

Hixanthrope · September 02, 2024, 02:56:36 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PMyou end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll

GM skill issue, Bound to None says not to do that. You have a base damage value for example 2d6 SMG. You put a mod on it that gives it +1 DL. It's now 2d8. You then do a flanking maneuver, and the GM gives you +1 DL for positioning. It's now 2d10. Instead of a flat +/-, you change you die roll. This only happens when it's either explicitly stated by a power/mod or given as a GM call per situation. The GM who would do caculation on the Dice Ladder would do the same with a flat bonus, going over the chart of +/- in game instead of just making a call.

jeff37923 · September 02, 2024, 03:06:55 PM

Quote from: Hixanthrope on September 02, 2024, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PMyou end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll
GM skill issue, Bound to None says not to do that. You have a base damage value for example 2d6 SMG. You put a mod on it that gives it +1 DL. It's now 2d8. You then do a flanking maneuver, and the GM gives you +1 DL for positioning. It's now 2d10. Instead of a flat +/-, you change you die roll. This only happens when it's either explicitly stated by a power/mod or given as a GM call per situation. The GM who would do caculation on the Dice Ladder would do the same with a flat bonus, going over the chart of +/- in game instead of just making a call.

Obviously, our preferences in game mechanics differ.

EDIT: You didn't by any chance write Bound to None, did you?

GeekyBugle · September 02, 2024, 03:30:38 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: Hixanthrope on September 02, 2024, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PMyou end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll
GM skill issue, Bound to None says not to do that. You have a base damage value for example 2d6 SMG. You put a mod on it that gives it +1 DL. It's now 2d8. You then do a flanking maneuver, and the GM gives you +1 DL for positioning. It's now 2d10. Instead of a flat +/-, you change you die roll. This only happens when it's either explicitly stated by a power/mod or given as a GM call per situation. The GM who would do caculation on the Dice Ladder would do the same with a flat bonus, going over the chart of +/- in game instead of just making a call.

Obviously, our preferences in game mechanics differ.

EDIT: You didn't by any chance write Bound to None, did you?

In my Pulp game (and the games compatible with it I'm developing) I use a dice ladder, you get (or not) an extra die to roll with your d20 for certain tasks related with your attribute (it depends on what score you have on it) I shamelessly stole it from Flying Swords.

IF your attribute score increases then you might get an increase in said extra die (depends on what your new attribute score is).

It works sorta like advantage and feats combined.

It's very simple to grok since you ALWAYS roll the same extra die unless your attribute has increased enough to increase the die size, which goes from d2 to d12.

I think this helps simulate the Pulp protagonists AND main villains.

jeff37923 · September 02, 2024, 03:39:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 02, 2024, 03:30:38 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: Hixanthrope on September 02, 2024, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PMyou end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll
GM skill issue, Bound to None says not to do that. You have a base damage value for example 2d6 SMG. You put a mod on it that gives it +1 DL. It's now 2d8. You then do a flanking maneuver, and the GM gives you +1 DL for positioning. It's now 2d10. Instead of a flat +/-, you change you die roll. This only happens when it's either explicitly stated by a power/mod or given as a GM call per situation. The GM who would do caculation on the Dice Ladder would do the same with a flat bonus, going over the chart of +/- in game instead of just making a call.

Obviously, our preferences in game mechanics differ.

EDIT: You didn't by any chance write Bound to None, did you?

In my Pulp game (and the games compatible with it I'm developing) I use a dice ladder, you get (or not) an extra die to roll with your d20 for certain tasks related with your attribute (it depends on what score you have on it) I shamelessly stole it from Flying Swords.

IF your attribute score increases then you might get an increase in said extra die (depends on what your new attribute score is).

It works sorta like advantage and feats combined.

It's very simple to grok since you ALWAYS roll the same extra die unless your attribute has increased enough to increase the die size, which goes from d2 to d12.

I think this helps simulate the Pulp protagonists AND main villains.

Since I'm neither a fan of Pulp or dice ladders, I'm probably not your target audience for those games. My personal preferences differ. Best of luck, though.

GeekyBugle · September 02, 2024, 03:42:32 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 02, 2024, 03:30:38 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: Hixanthrope on September 02, 2024, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PMyou end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll
GM skill issue, Bound to None says not to do that. You have a base damage value for example 2d6 SMG. You put a mod on it that gives it +1 DL. It's now 2d8. You then do a flanking maneuver, and the GM gives you +1 DL for positioning. It's now 2d10. Instead of a flat +/-, you change you die roll. This only happens when it's either explicitly stated by a power/mod or given as a GM call per situation. The GM who would do caculation on the Dice Ladder would do the same with a flat bonus, going over the chart of +/- in game instead of just making a call.

Obviously, our preferences in game mechanics differ.

EDIT: You didn't by any chance write Bound to None, did you?

In my Pulp game (and the games compatible with it I'm developing) I use a dice ladder, you get (or not) an extra die to roll with your d20 for certain tasks related with your attribute (it depends on what score you have on it) I shamelessly stole it from Flying Swords.

IF your attribute score increases then you might get an increase in said extra die (depends on what your new attribute score is).

It works sorta like advantage and feats combined.

It's very simple to grok since you ALWAYS roll the same extra die unless your attribute has increased enough to increase the die size, which goes from d2 to d12.

I think this helps simulate the Pulp protagonists AND main villains.

Since I'm neither a fan of Pulp or dice ladders, I'm probably not your target audience for those games. My personal preferences differ. Best of luck, though.

A shame since (not to tout my own horn) I think I'm doing a great job in modelling the characters, world, gadgets, monsters and villains.

Ratman_tf · September 02, 2024, 05:20:03 PM

Did a politics derail just get derailed by a game mechanics tangent?

I love this place.

ForgottenF · September 02, 2024, 05:52:42 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 02:32:34 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 02, 2024, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 02, 2024, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMI appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

Sure!

I first encountered dice ladders with Alternity. In the rules, dice ladders look like a novel way to use all of the dice in your collection in game. In actual play, I found them to be time consuming and cumbersome because you end up spending a lot of game time trying to figure out how far up or down the dice ladder you must move to find the right spot for a roll and it just doubles when you have opposing rolls. It is the antithesis of a system designed for fast cinematic action or definitive results IMHO.

Question: Would you call Savage Worlds a dice ladder system? I generally do, because you improve your stats by upgrading the die type rolled, but it sounds like you're using it specifically for games where the die type you roll changes based on in-game circumstance.

On opposed rolls, yes. Normally you are trying to roll against a target number though, IIRC. I'm only very familiar with the Deadlands proto-Savage Worlds where you had to have what I consider a lot of extraneous crap just to play (like a deck of cards).

I believe the only thing the cards stuck around for was the initiative system, so that's easy to just ignore and slot in your system of choice. I don't think SWADE has many opposed rolls (I'm sure tenbones can correct me if wrong), but even then it seems like it shouldn't be a problem. If both people know which dice they roll for X skill, seems like it should be the same as just knowing your modifiers. I get what you're saying for something like DCC where a single action type can move up and down the dice chain depending on the situation.

Spinachcat · September 02, 2024, 11:43:28 PM

Thank you for making NOT buying this libtard crapass nonsense in book form a very easy decision.

Shame. I love the source material.

As for dice ladders, they are a perfectly fine mechanic, except as an Alternity & Earthdawn GM, I did NOT enjoy them in actual play. Why? Too fiddly and I didn't see what were gaining at the table.

To me, dice mechanics usually are the least interesting part of RPGs. I'm cool with them in board games or war games, but I really need RPG mechanics to fade into the background during actual play.

Ratman_tf · September 03, 2024, 12:25:31 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on September 02, 2024, 11:43:28 PMAs for dice ladders, they are a perfectly fine mechanic, except as an Alternity & Earthdawn GM, I did NOT enjoy them in actual play. Why? Too fiddly and I didn't see what were gaining at the table.

As an Earthdawn fan and once GM, I love the setting but the dice step system always felt like a mechanic looking for an application.

Batjon · September 03, 2024, 05:56:08 AM

Just have a look at the 'About Us' page for the company who publishes the game, Soulmuppet Publishing.

https://usa.soulmuppet-store.co.uk/pages/about-us

blackstone · September 03, 2024, 07:56:26 AM

Quote from: Naburimannu on September 02, 2024, 03:47:31 AMIt's always amusing to see someone so wrong in calling someone else wrong? I mean, I'm disappointed in the game's extremity, but as much as my friend-group liked Cowboy Bebop in the late 90s when we ran out of Babylon 5 to watch, I don't think I'm in the target market. Still, facts and history matter:

Quote from: blackstone on September 01, 2024, 12:26:04 PMWow. How to break down how incredibly WRONG the author of this game is, in regards to history:
...
but to get into the stupidly categorized bits...

2.
Quote1950s and 60s "Golden Age of Capitalism"
: I have never heard of this period referred to in such a way by any historian, or in any historical context. In regards to the 20th century, you can break things down into pre-ww2 and post-ww2 eras, which there are distinct differences when analyzed. the 50s and 60s are definitely post-ww2. The details of which can be easily researched and can quite easily debunked the juvenile, simplistic, and Marxist historical view the author holds.

Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_economic_expansion: "The post–World War II economic expansion, also known as the postwar economic boom or the Golden Age of Capitalism" - with citations to historians from 1992.

Quote3.
Quotethe early 90s and the closing of the "Decade of Greed," when the glossy paintwork of late-stage capitalism began to chip away.
: even more so than the previous statement I covered, this is just pure fiction. Nobody but a leftist boob would call this decade the "Decade of Greed". What a preposterous statement. So to a Marxist, the decades following the post-cold war era, where the obvious failed utopias of Marxist-Leninist-Moaist ideology crumbled to dust, which led to one of the greatest economic booms of the 20th century since the end of both world wars, is a decade of greed. If that's the case, then we need to shut down every McDonald's, Starbucks, and any other Western company east of the Volga. I'm sure folks in Poland and Romania are pining for the glory days of standing in line for toilet paper and bread. Right...

Try "Farber, David (2019). Crack: Rock Cocaine, Street Capitalism, and the Decade of Greed. Cambridge University Press." Or any of the other many hits for this phrase that Google will happily provide for you if you type "define decade of greed" into your favourite search box. If you want someone who's not "lefty Marxist" try the National Review in 2004: "The 1980s were a "Decade of Greed." There were, no doubt, individual incidents of conspicuous consumption and selfish disregard for the welfare of others."

The quotes the OP calls out suggests that this game is probably too slanted for me to be comfortable reworking it for my table. I didn't buy Salvage Union for that reason. And I'm avoiding D&D 6e for the same reason from the opposite side, even though it might be reworkable. But "Hurr Durr Marxist" isn't a critique of game quality OR of politics.

I appreciate the poster who pointed out that the suggested replacement uses dice ladders, although a little more context would be nice - I don't think I've ever played a game with a dice ladder; the second or third time you post "dice ladders suck" you might want to explain why you think so? FFS this isn't Twitter.

No real historian would use such loaded terms as "Age of Greed" or "Golden Age of Capitalism", which is obvious. It's bias and any good historian worth his degree knows that you must view history from a unbiased stance. The commonly accepted terms are "pre-WWII", "post-WWII", and so on. Your dig at me, though try as you might, falls flat. Because those of us who are actually in the field and studied would know that touting such terms as "Age of Greed" are for one thing only : to sell books.

blackstone · September 03, 2024, 07:57:55 AM

Quote from: S'mon on September 02, 2024, 04:44:16 AM"Decade of Greed" is used for the nasty Reaganite 1980s not the lovely fluffy Bill Clinton 1990s.

Again, it's a biased term and not a matter of fact.

jeff37923 · September 03, 2024, 08:57:03 AM

Quote from: Batjon on September 03, 2024, 05:56:08 AMJust have a look at the 'About Us' page for the company who publishes the game, Soulmuppet Publishing.

https://usa.soulmuppet-store.co.uk/pages/about-us

Welp, that was vomit inducing.

Chris24601 · September 03, 2024, 10:15:52 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 03, 2024, 08:57:03 AM
Quote from: Batjon on September 03, 2024, 05:56:08 AMJust have a look at the 'About Us' page for the company who publishes the game, Soulmuppet Publishing.

https://usa.soulmuppet-store.co.uk/pages/about-us

Welp, that was vomit inducing.

I feel sorry for the cat. It's probably the only sane member of the whole business and it has to deal with... that.

blackstone · September 03, 2024, 11:23:32 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 03, 2024, 10:15:52 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on September 03, 2024, 08:57:03 AM
Quote from: Batjon on September 03, 2024, 05:56:08 AMJust have a look at the 'About Us' page for the company who publishes the game, Soulmuppet Publishing.

https://usa.soulmuppet-store.co.uk/pages/about-us

Welp, that was vomit inducing.
I feel sorry for the cat. It's probably the only sane member of the whole business and it has to deal with... that.

this is why