Are you a #ttrpg game designer looking for more opportunities to get recognized? Join the Game Jam and produce a supplement for a known #OSR product!
Also, check out my book of extraplanar adventure scenarios!
#dnd
I'm a little confused about the sponsorship issue. If a company sponsors people submitting supplements for their games, are they "claiming" those supplements as their own, or that they're official? Or is it simply a legal thing? In the latter case, what about brands that already have established third-party product identity licenses, like Basic Fantasy or OSE? Do they still need to sponsor the jam?
I'd love to join the game jam but I don't actually write adventures for an OSR system! Maybe I could whip something up, though. Does Castles & Crusades count?
Last time I looked into itch.io, there were some questionable intellectual property issues I noticed. Things like whatever is posted becomes partially owned by itch.io and can be monetized by the site. Can we get some clarification on IP rights of OSR products created by third parties before jumping in on this?
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 26, 2022, 08:59:19 PM
Last time I looked into itch.io, there were some questionable intellectual property issues I noticed. Things like whatever is posted becomes partially owned by itch.io and can be monetized by the site. Can we get some clarification on IP rights of OSR products created by third parties before jumping in on this?
Is it this paragraph? (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Quote
To the Company, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the content in connection with the Service, including without limitation for promoting, redistributing in any and all media formats. If you choose to remove your content from the Service, this license shall terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove your content from the Service.
That's... pretty broad. It's not an assertion of ownership, but basically they get to do what they want with your stuff.
Granted that they need some rights to host the content in the first place, the "sublicensable and transferable" and "prepare derivative works" parts seem unusual.
Of course, the more of your work that's Open Game Content, the less of an issue this is.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 26, 2022, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 26, 2022, 08:59:19 PM
Last time I looked into itch.io, there were some questionable intellectual property issues I noticed. Things like whatever is posted becomes partially owned by itch.io and can be monetized by the site. Can we get some clarification on IP rights of OSR products created by third parties before jumping in on this?
Is it this paragraph? (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Quote
To the Company, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the content in connection with the Service, including without limitation for promoting, redistributing in any and all media formats. If you choose to remove your content from the Service, this license shall terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove your content from the Service.
That's... pretty broad. It's not an assertion of ownership, but basically they get to do what they want with your stuff.
Granted that they need some rights to host the content in the first place, the "sublicensable and transferable" and "prepare derivative works" parts seem unusual.
Of course, the more of your work that's Open Game Content, the less of an issue this is.
That's the one.
It just looks fishy because it is so broad in its scope.
Oh, and on the new RPGPundit Presents... is there a particular reason that the mirror is malfunctioning for Laetitia? Afraid the players will realize no good can come of a magical portal labeled "Joy"?
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 26, 2022, 05:29:18 PM
I'm a little confused about the sponsorship issue. If a company sponsors people submitting supplements for their games, are they "claiming" those supplements as their own, or that they're official? Or is it simply a legal thing? In the latter case, what about brands that already have established third-party product identity licenses, like Basic Fantasy or OSE? Do they still need to sponsor the jam?
It means that they explicitly allow people in the Jam to make products directly based on their IP for the Jam. They are not 'claiming' these supplements, have no ownership of them, nor would they necessarily even be "official products". It's just to say "I created this RPG, and I encourage people in the Game Jam to make supplements for it".
I believe that any product with a third-party identity would be something that doesn't need official endorsement, but it would be nice if they did. The goal of all this is to promote the jam and encourage new designers to try it out.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 26, 2022, 10:30:55 PM
Oh, and on the new RPGPundit Presents... is there a particular reason that the mirror is malfunctioning for Laetitia? Afraid the players will realize no good can come of a magical portal labeled "Joy"?
The reason was actually to try to have the opposite effect; make it seem ominous. But your reason is a good one too.
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I signed up for this to ask if they would accept a submission for Swords & Six-Siders. Here's hoping.
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
I'm not a fan for the paragraph in question, but I don't see how it makes the game jam spec work. I assume the participants in the jam all get to set their own prices and so they can all make money; that's speculative only in that they risk nobody buying it.
ETA: My understanding is spec work means, "Hey, everybody, why don't you do some work for us for free and we might pay one or two of you!" while this is "Hey, here's a platform for selling your stuff, but we reserve the right to screw you over if we decide to."
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Yeah, I don't know. It's mostly used by lefty-indie people, but does anyone know of any case where someone has actually had their product abused in any way by the company itself? Is anyone complaining about anything that the company has done using that statement as justification? Or is this just badly-written legalese?
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 28, 2022, 07:17:38 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Yeah, I don't know. It's mostly used by lefty-indie people, but does anyone know of any case where someone has actually had their product abused in any way by the company itself? Is anyone complaining about anything that the company has done using that statement as justification? Or is this just badly-written legalese?
No, but itch.io hasn't been around for long either.
Maybe I'm just leery after seeing the WotC DnD 4E GSL crap and the Mongoose Publishing Traveller TAS fiasco.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 28, 2022, 07:17:38 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
Yeah, I don't know. It's mostly used by lefty-indie people, but does anyone know of any case where someone has actually had their product abused in any way by the company itself? Is anyone complaining about anything that the company has done using that statement as justification? Or is this just badly-written legalese?
I'd say it's reasonable to assume any loophole that can be exploited eventually will be. That said, you have ask what the real risk here is for most users. I wouldn't want to try to make a living off selling stuff on itch.io, but as a way to host stuff you make primarily for fun and maybe make a little money on the side, it doesn't seem that bad.
Yes. And for the opportunity to produce a relatively small product that may not make you much money, but is likely to improve your recognition within the OSR.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
That is far as I can tell the platform's boilerplate. But the contests.
A-lot of sharing platforms have that now. BGG and Deviant Art are two that I know if, Even HeroForge has it, only moreso. And Palladoum was and likely still is, the worst with a "you post it online. We own it" boilerplate way back.
The big question is. For this contest are the publishers getting the material at the end or laying any claim to the works? If yes and the designers aren't getting paid then its spec work. If its just a "for fun help promote these publishers" sort of contest its walking the fine line. And it its "just for fun anything goes and we aren't claiming any of this" then it should be fine.
Years of seeing BGG swing between rabid nuttery attacks on - and fawning support on contests has left me with the general healthy urge to check first before either making accusations or giving something a pass.
Im fairly sure Pundit just used whats become a red flag, "exposure", without knowing it.
Quote from: Omega on March 01, 2022, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 27, 2022, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 27, 2022, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 27, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Over on BGG and RPGG they would be screeching about "spec work".
And while they go way overboard over there. It is something to watch out for that writers arent being essentially used this way. So far doesnt look it. But whenever someone uses the word "exposure" it throws up the red flags.
I'm pretty sure that the Game Jam makes money. Since it's itch.io it's probably small amounts of money, but anyways, it's not spec work.
This paragraph makes your statement questionable. (https://itch.io/docs/legal/terms#4-publisher-content)
That is far as I can tell the platform's boilerplate. But the contests.
A-lot of sharing platforms have that now. BGG and Deviant Art are two that I know if, Even HeroForge has it, only moreso. And Palladoum was and likely still is, the worst with a "you post it online. We own it" boilerplate way back.
The big question is. For this contest are the publishers getting the material at the end or laying any claim to the works? If yes and the designers aren't getting paid then its spec work. If its just a "for fun help promote these publishers" sort of contest its walking the fine line. And it its "just for fun anything goes and we aren't claiming any of this" then it should be fine.
Years of seeing BGG swing between rabid nuttery attacks on - and fawning support on contests has left me with the general healthy urge to check first before either making accusations or giving something a pass.
Im fairly sure Pundit just used whats become a red flag, "exposure", without knowing it.
No. The creators own their work, and as far as I know any profits they get from sales on Itch.io go to the writers alone. The publishers of the games the works are based on do not get any profit from that work, only good publicity. Of course, some publisher might be really impressed with someone's work and offer them the chance to publish it on DTRPG or elsewhere as an official supplement.