I had my players pitch in on a book purchase once when I was around 20 and low on cash. They did it happily, but I never asked again. It made me feel like I was doing this as a job to entertain them rather than us all just being a bunch of friends hanging out. It wasn't what I wanted my gaming time friends to feel like.

I don't have any issue with other people charging though. If they are asking and people are willing to pay, then that's all that matters.

Quote from: kosmos1214;967830Now this is a little diferent here you have players kicking in some money so he can literally afford to DM that's a little different then saying you wana play my game you need to pony up the dosh.

I dunno'.  I'll agree that "pay me or you don't get to play in my game" types go nowhere quick, but I'm sure there are people out there who have a hard time finding a reliable, good GM and -are- be willing to pay for the service.  I forget the guy's name, but there's at least one guy pulling ~$30k doing it full time.  He doesn't get benefits, and it's a pretty crummy sounding career for my tastes, but he's having fun and helping people meet like minded gamers (i.e. folks who can't find groups else wise).  Also, there's all those folks charging $XXXX to play a campaign with developers/writers/etc. as part of a Kickstarter reward tier (like... say... Exalted).

I mean, people -do- pay for GMing now, and it's not inherently assholish on the part of the GM.

(and now this whole thing reminds me of arguments about legalized prostitution.  But without the VD element I hope)

Quote from: S'mon;967687How much time was he spending GMing?! I occasionally get up around 15 hours/week when classes aren't running, but that's across several campaigns. A single campaign is about 5 hours tops (my Sunday players will start arriving ca 1pm today and leaving ca 6pm). Was he spending tons of time on prep work?

Yeah, he was that type of GM.  He ran a World in Motion sandbox where you could head anywhere and feel like the place was fully detailed.  It's why people decided it was better to have him GM than not.  We usually played on the weekend, at least 6-8 hours.

Quote from: kosmos1214;967830Like for real? The hell I mean there A difference to players kicking in for supplements or covering the cost of snakes if the DM pickes them up / brings them is one thing but actully trying to make money on the players at your table sounds and feels douchey as hell.

Now this is a little diferent here you have players kicking in some money so he can literally afford to DM that's a little different then saying you wana play my game you need to pony up the dosh.

Yeah, I know it's not quite the same thing.  Some people play with friends, others game with people that they don't hang with anywhere else, others have open tables at FLGS where people show up to play.  If a GM runs a successful table every week for whoever shows up, and everyone likes it, charging an entrance fee is a little different than expecting your friends to pay your rent through GMing or something.

In the end though, for services like that Caveat Emptor.  If a GM was good enough, I might Patreon them.

Back in the day. When I was first starting in gaming. The only place to play the RPGs I wanted to play charged game groups for being there. It was a $1 collection from every player for the heating/cooling, and the lights. Wasn't any more than that. The GM was exempt from paying. Because they hosted the game. And we all pitched in a little for communal snacks from the local grocery.

That's a far cry from a GM actually charging admission. And I believe that once it is brought to that level. It stops being a hobby. And the GM is trying to turn it into a profession.

GMing as a profession I find completely distasteful. I think it lessens the hobby's accessibility. And takes RPGs away from being a casual social hobby.

Quote from: san dee jota;967833I dunno'.  I'll agree that "pay me or you don't get to play in my game" types go nowhere quick, but I'm sure there are people out there who have a hard time finding a reliable, good GM and -are- be willing to pay for the service.  I forget the guy's name, but there's at least one guy pulling ~$30k doing it full time.  He doesn't get benefits, and it's a pretty crummy sounding career for my tastes, but he's having fun and helping people meet like minded gamers (i.e. folks who can't find groups else wise).  Also, there's all those folks charging $XXXX to play a campaign with developers/writers/etc. as part of a Kickstarter reward tier (like... say... Exalted).

I mean, people -do- pay for GMing now, and it's not inherently assholish on the part of the GM.

(and now this whole thing reminds me of arguments about legalized prostitution.  But without the VD element I hope)

Again both of those are A little different.

Yeah, this compulsory payment I'm required to make to play games has ruined the hobby. Oh wait, I can play for free anytime I want. What a problem.

Quote from: CRKrueger;967848Yeah, he was that type of GM.  He ran a World in Motion sandbox where you could head anywhere and feel like the place was fully detailed.  It's why people decided it was better to have him GM than not.  

I do that too with my Wilderlands Ghinarian Hills campaign (using the 3e box set), but I mostly GM that online text-chat which I guess makes it easier to roll stuff up during play. Still, a few rolls on donjon.net random generator gives me tons of material to work with, along with the published hexcrawl setting. I'm guessing he created his own sandbox setting, made his own dungeons? I do a lot of plug & play with published minimally keyed dungeons scattered around. I've noticed that trying to sandbox-GM unkeyed settings like Karameikos & Hollow World without tons of prep is much more challenging.

Quote from: kosmos1214;967830covering the cost of snakes if the DM pickes them up / brings them is one thing

I've never been in a game where a snake budget was required, but I think I might want to be.

Quote from: CRKrueger;967671People pay lots of money on $5-$10 dollar subscriptions/month here and there they don't even use that often.  They pay $5 for a Starbucks and $10-$20 on a movie ticket.

When I was back in college, there was a GM who was going to school full-time and working two jobs to pay for it, he literally could not afford to both sleep and GM.  He offered to reduce his hours at his lower paying job and use that to run stuff and get ready, if players were willing to step up and pay a few bucks per session to cover his time.  He's still take a hit, but it wouldn't be economic suicide.  For a while, everyone looked at him like he was crazy, so he stopped GMing at went to work and school and didn't really have any leisure time.  Eventually, people decided to have the group pitch in 5 or 10 bucks a session and cover the drinks and snacks.  He started the campaign up again, we all had fun and no one felt ripped off.

There's a certain... I don't even know what to call it... acceptable level of bending the norms during that whole college part of your life where those with $ occasionally supplement those without simply because they want their company. You'd worry about what it encourages, except you all know that it's not going to continue. My current gaming group has one 20 y.o. right now who works part time as a cable installer or something while the rest of us are all 40 y.o.+and at various levels of tech- and healthcare- industry professionals. It's an unstated norm that this guy doesn't contribute to the snacks and usually gets a ride, simply because otherwise he wouldn't be there. If this were the case in five years time, the same guy would be a mooch and the supplementing simply wouldn't happen.

I don't know exactly what I'm saying, except maybe that I don't think one can extrapolate too much from that scenario to a more broad pay-to-play scenario.

Its gets better. I use the word better here as an anagram for worse... Over ob BGG we have some designers bitching about wanting to be payed just for submitting a game to a published. Theres a whole "spec work" thread about how a publisher holding a contest is "spec work" and we keep pointing out that unless the publisher has a "you submit it - we own it" clause then No. It is not spec work you morons. Its no different from doing a game for a non-publisher contest, scouts, or whatever. Read the damn fine print.

Quote from: Omega;967935I use the word better here as an anagram for worse...

You're in luck, there are four: resow, serow, sower, and swore.

Quote from: HappyDaze;967932I've never been in a game where a snake budget was required, but I think I might want to be.

"Lets see...dice, note paper, dry wash board, chips, vipers, drinks... yep looks like I'm all set for tonight's game."

Quote from: Nexus;967956"Lets see...dice, note paper, dry wash board, chips, vipers, drinks... yep looks like I'm all set for tonight's game."

"Loser.  Everybody knows the only real version of the game uses cobras.  Vipers are just some nonsense that got thrown in to appeal to the faction of players who haven't discovered soap yet.  They're almost as bad as those Boa School Revival idiots."

Totally off topic. But was DMing once and had the disconcerting experience of a spider rappelling off my eyebrow...

Quote from: Krimson;967558Don't even start. People are already doing pay to play.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;967590Dang! That's what I've been doing wrong, for all these years -letting people pay for free! I can fix that; should I charge by the hour of game time, or a flat-rate per player per game session?

Back in the day, I ran a weekly game Monday nights at a local game store. I was paid $20 an evening ($5/hr, 4 hrs. Min wage at the time.) Lasted for about 3 months; it was a good gig at the time.

Originally, the owner paid me to run the game, and then made me turn it over to an enthusiastic player. He killed it that night- sent everyone to Ravenloft. I had 12 people showing up every week, and it never recovered. Some people came back and asked for me, and the owner said that he wouldn't subsidize it anymore. I said that if they covered what I would have made, I would do it. They did. The table ranged from 3-7, and lasted for about three months after that.