Hi all,
We are here to show an app we are creating in order to improve online RPG gaming! :D
Our app consists in a tabletop integrated in Hangouts where you can play any RPG game while talking with your friends. Including dice rolls, character sheets, music and maps.
We would be pleased to know about what do you like about this app, if you would use it or if we should change something (or many) of it.
Here's some pics explaining how it works:
http://imgur.com/a/PPS5K
Thanks in advance!
How is it going to be better than Roll20?
Hi estar,
The first thing is that this app is very GM-friendly. You only have the options you really need, and the ones you might not are in the right-click menu. You can even remove the map and character sheet part and stick to the sidebar for rolls and music.
Another thing is that since it is integrated with Hangouts you have access to its plugins, like Hangout Toolbox which is pretty handy. I must say Roll20 has a Hangouts integration, too, but I think you'll need a quite large screen for it.
Other thing is that you can create you own character sheets. Roll20 does in fact have the feature but it's only for paid users. We believe that would be taking too much away from GM's since there are tons of systems and it's not that uncommon to come up with its own.
If you think that's not enough, we seriously consider suggestions, if you feel there is a lack of something that is!
Quote from: OnRol;885231We would be pleased to know about what do you like about this app, if you would use it or if we should change something (or many) of it.
1st of all, I like the app. Looks quite promising, simple, yet with quite a bunch of useful options. Good job!
Things that come to mind:
- The UI could use a bit polishing. I'm not saying "go Material Design", but so far it resembles those old Windows 3.11 applications :D
- What about libraries of files? I mean images/music/sounds? Is it possible to upload stuff directly from the PC/tablet, or does it rely on "paste link to stuff stored elsewhere in the Internet" approach?
- While at that, does it allow to store/save some projects (like maps) for later usage?
- How many layers are are allowed in that map editor? I take it, there are at least 2: the background and foreground, correct?
Hi JesterRaiin,
Thanks! We got whatever we felt what was most needed for current systems and worked to maximize visibility.
- We had a good laugh there with the Windows 3.11 design :P. Yes, we need to work more on the UI. So far we are not worried about it since this is an early prototype to check if it would work.
- This is only working on music right now, but yes. Offering a link is possible too now. Offering space to store resources is vital.
- Only maps and character sheets (on the same game) for now. It's only possible to have 1 game now so that's some thing to work on.
- Yes. We're also thinking if an invisible layer for GM's would be needed too.
Feel free to ask if you think there is more to improve on. If you'd like we can also pass a in-dev version when it's ready!
Quote from: OnRol;885374Feel free to ask if you think there is more to improve on. If you'd like we can also pass a in-dev version when it's ready!
My pleasure. I'd suggest:
- Adding the support for some online storage spaces. Google Drive, One Drive - pretty much everyone uses it, even if it's rotten down to the core, loathsome and vile corporate solution. Still, it could serve well for online libraries of stuff used in RPG sessions.
- I'm thinking about multifloor maps. While it's not always the case, it's also far from uncommon to join a battle taking place on more than one floor. You know, people climb stairs, attempt to shoot the enemy hovering above their heads, stuff light that.
- Invisible layer is useful. In fact two would be ok - one for general purpose, and second for the GM only.
That'd be it, so far. I'd have to put the software into use, to judge what's missing. ;)
Quite impressive so far. Looks quick to learn and use. I'm guessing role-play and gaming is not put on hold all that much because there is less data entry to upkeep.
I refuse to use Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 because they are counter-roleplay to gaming. They suck players into boardgaming instead. Some players like to boardgame their D&D. But that is not role-playing. And it's not even gaming. It's just networked geek time with overly complicated chat apps.
Your GUI looks good enough to jump into for first time G+ Hangout role-players who want/need to use more of their computer as a game management tool during a session.
I like what I see so far.
To be good for TFT & GURPS, it would want a hex grid mode, and an indicator for which direction each figure is facing, and what their body position is (standing, crouching, kneeling, sitting, lying, crawling) and perhaps other labels the GM can apply (e.g. "on fire").
Actually, for GURPS you also need the ability to have people fall down and occupy two hexes.
Also it could be really cool would be if you had line-of-sight and facing limiting what of the map is revealed, as well as control over how wide a character's field of view is. Then players could automatically be limited to only seeing what their characters see - then your app would actually be adding something cool to gameplay.
I'd also want a desktop tool to be able to enter in lots of content for use during play, and to be able to run from computer as well as phone. I think using a ful computer would be preferred, especially for the GM, and I don't think I'd use it as a GM at all if I had to enter everything on a mobile device.
Here is a good visual example of showing facing (the red arrow in the hex) and limited line of sight. However it does not limit field of view to which direction the player character is facing.
Note that this version remembers what you saw but can't currently see, which should not update, and ideally should be optional whether it appears or not.
https://youtu.be/f7gknTJSmsc
Quote from: Skarg;885437Here is a good visual example of showing facing (the red arrow in the hex) and limited line of sight. However it does not limit field of view to which direction the player character is facing.
Note that this version remembers what you saw but can't currently see, which should not update, and ideally should be optional whether it appears or not.
https://youtu.be/f7gknTJSmsc
That's how a human fills in for a computer server that should be running the game. Why anyone would want to run a video game manually for other players is beyond me.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;885449That's how a human fills in for a computer server that should be running the game. Why anyone would want to run a video game manually for other players is beyond me.
Computers are poor at improvisation and that's why craploads of houses in local villages are [CLOSED], NPCs repeat [NICE TO MEET YOU (name), WOULD YOU LIKE TO PERUSE MY WARES] all the time, and you can't for the love of God simply do whatever you think would be nice at the moment, because game's engine doesn't allow it.
Now, imagine a game, even a simple one, where instead of a computer, you have a real guy and all his creativity, improvisation skills, attention and much more at your (player's) disposal.
Wouldn't that be cool? :)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;885377My pleasure. I'd suggest:
- Adding the support for some online storage spaces. Google Drive, One Drive - pretty much everyone uses it, even if it's rotten down to the core, loathsome and vile corporate solution. Still, it could serve well for online libraries of stuff used in RPG sessions.
- I'm thinking about multifloor maps. While it's not always the case, it's also far from uncommon to join a battle taking place on more than one floor. You know, people climb stairs, attempt to shoot the enemy hovering above their heads, stuff light that.
- Invisible layer is useful. In fact two would be ok - one for general purpose, and second for the GM only.
That'd be it, so far. I'd have to put the software into use, to judge what's missing. ;)
Seems about right. We'll think about the Dropbox/Drive/... integration, I know the asset uploading pains... The other suggestions are noted too. It's like you play and notice the fault but when working on it just cannot see the solution :).
About the two invisible layers, what would you use the general one for?
Quote from: Shawn DriscollQuite impressive so far. Looks quick to learn and use. I'm guessing role-play and gaming is not put on hold all that much because there is less data entry to upkeep.
I refuse to use Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 because they are counter-roleplay to gaming. They suck players into boardgaming instead. Some players like to boardgame their D&D. But that is not role-playing. And it's not even gaming. It's just networked geek time with overly complicated chat apps.
Your GUI looks good enough to jump into for first time G+ Hangout role-players who want/need to use more of their computer as a game management tool during a session.
I like what I see so far.
Thanks. We wanted an app where you could focus on the game itself. Little tinkering is required. Still, maybe some room for helping the GM improvise would be nice.
Quote from: SkargHere is a good visual example of showing facing (the red arrow in the hex) and limited line of sight. However it does not limit field of view to which direction the player character is facing.
Note that this version remembers what you saw but can't currently see, which should not update, and ideally should be optional whether it appears or not.
https://youtu.be/f7gknTJSmsc
The hex-grid is required, yes. The Field of View is more of an adder than something really necessary but will be important in the future. Also, the idea of preparing the game from a computer seems not critical but nice, will think about it. But I'd like to know why is it important to run a game on the phone.
About video game GMing, I must admit I did try Pokémon Tabletop United. was quite cool. The thing is the world instantly gains more life, although extra setting work is needed!
What platforms is this app going to?
Quote from: OnRol;885236Other thing is that you can create you own character sheets. Roll20 does in fact have the feature but it's only for paid users. We believe that would be taking too much away from GM's since there are tons of systems and it's not that uncommon to come up with its own.
What the general idea for making character sheets?
With Roll20 it is HTML5 with a style sheet. With Fantasy Ground it is a custom XML formatted file. If I had to guess from the images you posted it looks like entry fields on top of an image of a character sheet.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;885427I refuse to use Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 because they are counter-roleplay to gaming. They suck players into boardgaming instead. Some players like to boardgame their D&D. But that is not role-playing. And it's not even gaming. It's just networked geek time with overly complicated chat apps.
God forbid that you refrain using the whiteboard. The whole program will just collapse if you never draw on that white space and just stick to using the dice roller and voice/chat.
Some referees use miniatures and referee don't use miniatures. Obviously you are on the of not using miniatures and rely on Theater of the Mind. Doesn't make your style the one true way nor does it forces you to use features designed to support the referee who do use miniatures in their games. Any VTT that is going to be successfully has to support both styles and others as well.
Quote from: OnRol;885572About the two invisible layers, what would you use the general one for?
Sorry, I didn't explain it properly.
My idea is that one layer would be available for the GM only, and one in case he wants to pass some information only for certain player(s).
As in:
- Select GENERAL layer
- Assign each and every player who is supposed to see it
- Optionally: select whether underlying layers are visible to selected players too
- Add elements, objects, enemies, traps, write notes - they are now visible ONLY for player who were selected to see this layer
Imagine a scenario where only one (or more) PC is allowed to see more than the rest of the group. For example, only he passed a listening check and now knows that there's someone behind locked door. Yet, its only his choice whether he wants to warn others about what he knows.
Or, a guy, who now uses different field of vision - he doesn't see metal enemies, walls, but "feels" body heat.
Things like that - a layer that'd work for all those guys with alternative perception.
Don't get me wrong, it's just an idea. :)
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;885427I refuse to use (...)
Blessed are those who have a choice. ;)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;885587Sorry, I didn't explain it properly.
My idea is that one layer would be available for the GM only, and one in case he wants to pass some information only for certain player(s).
But why a layer on the whiteboard? Why not just have notes with graphics that are only shared with certain players?
With Roll20 I can see that working with their their maps to account for players having characters that see things differently when you setup up battlemap. They kind of do that with dynamic lighting but that is more involved setup than making a layer visible to certain people.
Quote from: estar;885605But why a layer on the whiteboard? Why not just have notes with graphics that are only shared with certain players?
Same functionality might be achieved on many different ways. Which one is the best, and whether it's an idea worth pursuing is up to the devs. ;)
Quote from: OnRol;885572...
The hex-grid is required, yes. The Field of View is more of an adder than something really necessary but will be important in the future. Also, the idea of preparing the game from a computer seems not critical but nice, will think about it. But I'd like to know why is it important to run a game on the phone.
To me, mobile devices are incredibly fiddly to use for things like data entry. Having a full mouse, keyboard, and generous screen space make a massive difference to how easy it is to do things, especially something like text entry or laying out and manipulating maps. Laying out a dungeon, town, tavern or battlefield can involve a lot of detail. So I would not even try to run an RPG on a mobile device unless I had no other choice. With computers you can do other cross-application things easily, too, such as have a bunch of prepared text descriptions or pictures to quickly cut & paste to players. Maybe some people are UI wizards with their tablets, but I'm certainly not. And I was running RPGs on BBS's and chat systems back in 1990, so it's not like I'm squeamish... except when it comes to tiny devices, when I could use a computer. I'd rather set up my materials on a full computer using whatever, and then SMS/email stuff out to players on phones using non-gaming apps, than try to prepare game content using a game app on a mobile device.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;885449That's how a human fills in for a computer server that should be running the game. Why anyone would want to run a video game manually for other players is beyond me.
If I could lay out a location, and then have the computer automatically show players what their characters can see from where they're standing, that sounds like a pretty cool thing to me.
In fact, before I had ever heard of role-playing games (and when Pong and Space Battle were the only video games I'd seen, before the Atari 2600 came out), when I was maybe 8 years old, I invented a graph paper maze exploring game, which worked like shown above - the player chooses where to move, and I'd trace their field of view and draw out what they could see from there based on my pre-designed maps. So, for me this seems like an extra-cool thing, since that was my original inspiration to play these sorts of games.
Quote from: Skarg;885753If I could lay out a location, and then have the computer automatically show players what their characters can see from where they're standing, that sounds like a pretty cool thing to me.
It does sounds cool and Neverwinter Nights (the BIOS version) did just that. But the problem is the 3D, it like problem with using Dwarven Forge terrain only way more limiting however visually spectacular. It just not practical to do 3D during a session unless you are doing what is a diorama of a specific location. A tile based Dwarven Forge layout (3D or face to face) is practical limit in my experience and still have the flexibility of the players go anywhere they logically can in a session.
The reason is because it is time-consuming, very time-consuming. For software you have to learn what a artist does in 3D Modeling. In contrast 2d imagery is far more abundant and much of it adaptable in that a person can use paint to alter enough of the image to get exactly what they want.
Again, I understand where you are coming from but with the fact I am programmer of 30 years who works in 3D Modeling (HVAC Duct System) I couldn't make it to work on an ongoing basis.
Oh I agree there. I'm a programmer too, and I've also tried to make some settings in the original Neverwinter Nights... I did some stuff and discovered some tricks, but it was very time consuming and fiddly and limited in annoying ways, and then the D&D-ness showed me I couldn't relate to D&D enough to make anything that would play out in a way I liked anyway, so I quit.
But for the 2D tiles this app already shows, it would be possible to do basic 2D LOS and facing, limiting what tiles are shown to the players, and if it had a hex grid and could do facing and fallen bodies and equipment and I could write status notes, then I might actually really want to run it, because the computerized automatic field of view could actually add something cool to tactical combat resolution in GURPS.
First, sorry for the delay!
Quote from: Snowman0147What platforms is this app going to?
For now we're going with a Hangouts app, so it's anything with a web browser that is not a mobile device. We're trying to know if other platforms would be vital.
Quote from: estarWhat the general idea for making character sheets?
With Roll20 it is HTML5 with a style sheet. With Fantasy Ground it is a custom XML formatted file. If I had to guess from the images you posted it looks like entry fields on top of an image of a character sheet.
At this time of writing we're designing it. We think it's possible to avoid code at all with a drap-and-drop-like custom editor.
Quote from: JesterRaiinSorry, I didn't explain it properly.
My idea is that one layer would be available for the GM only, and one in case he wants to pass some information only for certain player(s).
As in:
Select GENERAL layer
Assign each and every player who is supposed to see it
Optionally: select whether underlying layers are visible to selected players too
Add elements, objects, enemies, traps, write notes - they are now visible ONLY for player who were selected to see this layer
Imagine a scenario where only one (or more) PC is allowed to see more than the rest of the group. For example, only he passed a listening check and now knows that there's someone behind locked door. Yet, its only his choice whether he wants to warn others about what he knows.
Or, a guy, who now uses different field of vision - he doesn't see metal enemies, walls, but "feels" body heat.
Things like that - a layer that'd work for all those guys with alternative perception.
Don't get me wrong, it's just an idea.
Thanks for the explanation :)
Quote from: SkargTo me, mobile devices are incredibly fiddly to use for things like data entry. Having a full mouse, keyboard, and generous screen space make a massive difference to how easy it is to do things, especially something like text entry or laying out and manipulating maps. Laying out a dungeon, town, tavern or battlefield can involve a lot of detail. So I would not even try to run an RPG on a mobile device unless I had no other choice. With computers you can do other cross-application things easily, too, such as have a bunch of prepared text descriptions or pictures to quickly cut & paste to players. Maybe some people are UI wizards with their tablets, but I'm certainly not. And I was running RPGs on BBS's and chat systems back in 1990, so it's not like I'm squeamish... except when it comes to tiny devices, when I could use a computer. I'd rather set up my materials on a full computer using whatever, and then SMS/email stuff out to players on phones using non-gaming apps, than try to prepare game content using a game app on a mobile device.
Maybe a tablet would be nicer... only if it would have a keyboard plugged in! Do you see players playing your runned game from their phones?
We're staying with the LOS but it's something not to do on the first prototype ^^'
Personally, I'd want to run from a computer rather than a tablet. Though yeah you can attach a keyboard and mouse (much better for text selection cut & paste than any touch UI I've ever seen) to a tablet, but a small laptop is just as light and the keyboard is better attached and the laptop is more capable. If there were an app I loved that (probably due to mobile API restrictions) only ran on a tablet, it's possible I might buy a tablet for it to run on. I'd still prefer to develop most of my content on a full computer.
As for running a game with players using their mobile devices, yes I can see that being useful, and doing that, at least sometimes.
1. Players who weren't physically there (snack run or couldn't make it, or guest players, etc) could participate in stuff they otherwise couldn't, or not so well.
1b. It would also enable sessions running when no one can show up in person, or even running campaigns with no local players, or with no particular start/end times because you just keep it running, kind of like PBEM, but aided with this system.
2. Passing of notes could be done better than via paper notes, paper notebooks, or non-game-oriented chat/IM/text systems, if well-designed for RPGs.
3. Notes and other data could be stored automatically (e.g. combat replays?, keeping track of where loot ends up?), saving time taking notes, and increasing what can be saved/stored in case it comes up later, or just for fun and interest's sake.
4. The virtual map which can store pre-made location maps and at least some sort of ability to limit what the players are shown of them, could be really useful if it's good enough.
5. If there were good location editors or even generators (e.g. random outdoor location generator with parameters and editor), it would multiply the usefulness of 4).
So yeah, I could see using that. For in-person games, though, it'd be a trade-off wanting to show locations on devices versus laying out a physical battle map scene. Physical still has a lot of advantages. And I could see wanting to use a large screen or projector (cough - from a computer, probably) to show the map to everyone not on a fiddly phone. The ideal setup might be a tabletop monitor, though that's getting more like certain technology trade shows I've worked on, so seems pretty excessive for what most people have. There would still need to be a private GM computer to control stuff the players aren't supposed to see.