Depends on what kind of setting, player expectations, GM experience. Some things can be improvised right at the moment. Don't tell a player they can't peek out the window because they lack whatever attributes. For as long as there's a world out there, something will always be on the other side. It's up to the GM to elaborate what's on the other side.

Is lazy RPing wrong in general?  No, do what's fun for you.  But if you're at my table interfering with my fun, then it's very, very wrong.

I greatly prefer having a sandbox to start out in.  Then, maybe the players start down a path I envisioned; or, maybe they ask, provoke, or instigate something that will inspire me to DM in a new direction.  I'm more interested in a sandbox, than a railroad; by a large margin.

What happens with these disengaged players when their PC is splattered?

Or when they fail and the bad guys win?

Quote from: Opaopajr;1144527That said, it is not easy and seems to be epidemic to this new crop of gamers. Daring, resilience, purpose, attention span... it feels like starting behind even elemetary basics, more like trying to find a will to be alive. Kinda spooky honestly.

More than kinda spooky. That's creepy as fuck.

Unfortunately, I hear from employers that this zero-initiative behavior is common at work as well.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146042What happens with these disengaged players when their PC is splattered?

Probably they roll up a new PC.

Quote from: Shasarak;1146044Probably they roll up a new PC.

Exactly. Disengaged from the roleplay/plot/story/tabletalk/whatever doesn't mean they don't love character creation. I've known a few players that seemed to enjoy making characters more than actually playing the game. It was frustrating as hell for some of the rest of us at the table.

Do these disengaged players learn from why their last PC got splattered?

Or are their PCs meaningless and interchangeable to them?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146090Do these disengaged players learn from why their last PC got splattered?

Or are their PCs meaningless and interchangeable to them?

Greetings!

*Laughing* I can just hear some of my buddies baying at such players;
"You better wake the fuck up, son!"
While another, lighting up a smoke, "My man, you better light a fire under it. Fuck up like you did with that character again, and we'll just leave your dumb ass back in the marsh!"
"What the fuck is wrong with you? You need to get motivated, real fast, or ship the fuck out."
"His character did what???! Hey, buddy. Have cupcake there jump into the alligators and roll up a new character that has their shit together. Unmotivated, whiny bitches are dead weight to the team, and get left the fuck behind."
*Laughing* The laughing, mockery, and chewing would be relentless. Such unmotivated, disengaged players would definitely not last long!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK;1146094Greetings!

*Laughing* I can just hear some of my buddies baying at such players;
"You better wake the fuck up, son!"
While another, lighting up a smoke, "My man, you better light a fire under it. Fuck up like you did with that character again, and we'll just leave your dumb ass back in the marsh!"
"What the fuck is wrong with you? You need to get motivated, real fast, or ship the fuck out."
"His character did what???! Hey, buddy. Have cupcake there jump into the alligators and roll up a new character that has their shit together. Unmotivated, whiny bitches are dead weight to the team, and get left the fuck behind."
*Laughing* The laughing, mockery, and chewing would be relentless. Such unmotivated, disengaged players would definitely not last long!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Your crew sounds like a lot of fun.  (That's an actual opinion, not sarcasm - thought I'd better specify since it's sometimes hard to tell on forums) Dunno if you remember, but when we were both on ENWorld and I mentioned I was living in L.A. you invited me to come play, but my schedule didn't allow it.  Now I wish I had made the time.

Quote from: Mishihari;1146096Your crew sounds like a lot of fun.  (That's an actual opinion, not sarcasm - thought I'd better specify since it's sometimes hard to tell on forums) Dunno if you remember, but when we were both on ENWorld and I mentioned I was living in L.A. you invited me to come play, but my schedule didn't allow it.  Now I wish I had made the time.

Greetings!

Thank you, sir! Yes, I always have awesome players! All these disengaged, problem players wouldn't make the grade, you know? Over the years, I have ran into a few, but they have never lasted long, and get pruned the fuck out. Besides the crew not putting up with them, I don't have a lot of tolerance or patience for snowflakes and cupcakes.

Damn, Mishihari! You would have been welcome! Definitely a great time gaming!

PM me, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146090Do these disengaged players learn from why their last PC got splattered?

Or are their PCs meaningless and interchangeable to them?

You can be fully engaged and still die quite easily in some games. Sometimes the only thing to learn is that random shit happens randomly. No level of engagement alters that.

It's good for players to learn that random shit can happen randomly, but for the most part, PCs die because of bad player choices, usually a cascade of bad choices. It's those bad choices that engaged players can learn to avoid in the future. I don't have experience with disengaged players so I don't know if they learn from making bad choices.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1146209It's good for players to learn that random shit can happen randomly, but for the most part, PCs die because of bad player choices, usually a cascade of bad choices. It's those bad choices that engaged players can learn to avoid in the future. I don't have experience with disengaged players so I don't know if they learn from making bad choices.

Sometimes the two (random shit and bad choices) merge...like the player making the bad choice to play Rolemaster and then having the character destroyed by any random goon that tops out a roll a few times. Played in a 2-year long Rolemaster fantasy game, and character deaths were extremely common with a PC death averaging every 2-3 sessions from the 5 players (everyone was on their 2nd+ character, many on 3rd or 4th by the end of the game.). The game only ended when a TPK occurred and everyone finally looked at the GM and just said "enough, we're done."

I admit I don't like my PCs dying. I prefer games that give lots of room to avoid death, or even make it a player choice. These days character development and change (sometimes in unforeseen ways) is one of the most fun things in RPGs for me.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1146210Played in a 2-year long Rolemaster fantasy game, and character deaths were extremely common with a PC death averaging every 2-3 sessions from the 5 players (everyone was on their 2nd+ character, many on 3rd or 4th by the end of the game.).

That describes most of my campaigns, but I mostly run Horror/Fantasy, Post-Apoc or Space/Horror as my default genres. My default is "high risk, high reward, fast leveling" so my players know what to expect.