:shrug: If it was my campaign and the player was a good roleplayer, I'd allow the use of this character. I would have a small problem with the fact that the player wandered of the reservation in terms of what he/she was supposed to come up with.

Probably have a talk with this player as to how/why this happened. But, if the player is really enthusiatic about the concept and if I can fit it into the campaign, without much trouble, then I'll allow it.

I mean uni students who befriend loner-type dude who happens to be their crazy out there drinking buddy, telling them "you don't know shit about war...protesting motherfuckers...buy me another drink...liberal cunts..here's some weed..." cliche, sure...but I'd work with it.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Consonant DudeBecause of this, I think Jim killed 50% of the fun by asking strictly for students. To me, that's like asking players not to make Wizards for Ars Magica. It's a feature of the game that you can make fucked up, mismatched characters.

Let me guess - you've got the first edition of UA, where they gave the example where the GM has an idea, everyone agrees to it, then some gamer brings along his girlfriend to game for the first time ever, and she says, "hey! We could be a family of inbred mutant cannibals!" and the game book says the GM is stupid if they don't go with that later, crazy idea.

Yeah, they took that out of 2nd edition. For a good reason - it's BOLLOCKS.

The differences between characters make their interactions and adventures interesting, but entirely different and whacked-out characters don't fit together at all. There's a sensible middle ground between "interestingly different," and "whacked-out RIFTS crazy." This character here is more on the WORC side.

Here's the campaign description,

QuoteYou're curious, always have been. You like to go places you're not supposed to. You call it "urban exploration." Drains, steam tunnels, abandoned asylums, old missile silos – you love that shit. There's something you're looking for, you don't know what. You've got an obsession. Problem is, so does someone else. Or so you've heard. Sometimes you're not the only ones in those hidden and forgotten places. But you have to keep looking, you have to find things out. One day you'll find out - there is some shit you don't want to know.

See, that's the schtick of the campaign - normal people discovering abnormal things. Maybe you'll end up masturbating into your own faeces, but you don't begin that way, and more likely during the adventures you'll meet some guys like that, and not like them at all.

As others have said, there's too much undefined shit in there anyway. Compare,

PC Joe and PC Bob were once rivals for the affection of the same woman, NPC Jane. Bob got Jane, Joe didn't - Joe's not really over it, but he's also good friends with Bob, and doesn't want to cause trouble.

PC Joe and PC Bob were once rivals for the affection of the same woman, NPC Jane. She died somehow.

Both leave things hanging, but the first leaves things hanging in a way which leaves future events open, and gives the GM and other PCs something to grab onto; the second leaves things hanging, and gives people nothing to grab onto. The first one is a rope with loose ends to tie up; the second is a tangled mess of rope you've no idea how to untie, and no reason to bother.

His Loner Badarse was full of the second kind of stuff.

Quote from: Consonant DudeYou can have an ex-mathematician turned cook, a cop, a wheelchair-bound elder, a cheerleader and a football fanatic and it's all going to work out somehow.

Maybe, maybe not. The other issue is that many of the players don't know each-other. When players know each-other well, the characters can be whacked-out and different, because the bond between the players will keep the characters together; the players will think of some way to make it all work. When the players don't know each-other, then the characters need to be tied together in some way. At least, you know, a common hobby, like urban exploration.

Mostly, I was just pissed off. He sat there for two hours abusing poor old D&D and talking about how he wanted to focus on "character", and then what does he give me? A Loner Badarse In Sunglasses.

Quote from: JimBobOzYeah, they took that out of 2nd edition. For a good reason - it's BOLLOCKS.

Oh my God, is that really what the play example says? I think I may have found the mythical worst play example ever, and mind you, I've read the Heroquest examples.

Quote from: JimBobOzThere's a sensible middle ground between "interestingly different," and "whacked-out RIFTS crazy." This character here is more on the WORC side.

That is (I'm all about the awards tonight) the best roleplaying acronym ever. I'm totally stealing it for casual use.

Quote from: JimBobOzSee, that's the schtick of the campaign - normal people discovering abnormal things. Maybe you'll end up masturbating into your own faeces, but you don't begin that way, and more likely during the adventures you'll meet some guys like that, and not like them at all.

Yeah, this seems to confirm the "bringing Hellboy to the X-files" diagnosis I put forward earlier. I'm starting to get a pretty good picture of the problem.

Actually, you had me at "I said, 'design a student' and he didn't design a student." Wanker.

Anyway, good luck with the campaign.

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: MelinglorOh my God, is that really what the play example says? I think I may have found the mythical worst play example ever, and mind you, I've read the Heroquest examples.

Oh god yes, so true. They are soooo bad.

Quote from: MelinglorThat is (I'm all about the awards tonight) the best roleplaying acronym ever. I'm totally stealing it for casual use.

Whacked-Out RIFTS Crazy?

It was the first thing that came to my head to describe extreeeeeeeeme characters.

Quote from: MelinglorActually, you had me at "I said, 'design a student' and he didn't design a student." Wanker.

Not a wanker, I think. He said that he'd forgotten the conversation, and got carried away reading the UA intro pdf, got right into that. Still, it's a worry that's the first character which came to mind.

I was thinking that could perhaps be a method of screening potential players. Just get them to create a character, "whatever you like, in whatever system you like, I just want to know what sort of character you like to play." Creating a character in any system or setting without any constraints or guidelines will tell you a lot about their playstyle.

Or that's the untested, just-made-up, theory. What do you guys reckon?

Quote from: JimBobOzI was thinking that could perhaps be a method of screening potential players. Just get them to create a character, "whatever you like, in whatever system you like, I just want to know what sort of character you like to play." Creating a character in any system or setting without any constraints or guidelines will tell you a lot about their playstyle.

Or that's the untested, just-made-up, theory. What do you guys reckon?

Nah, I've seen to many players create interesting characters that I thought reflected a particular playstyle, then I end up running away screaming like Ned Flanders from the game table after seeing how they roleplayed said characters. What's on the character sheet is rarely an indication of what could happen during play, IME.

Regards,
David R

Here's the kicker. Cadel Johnson works for God. God wants him to go to college. Dark doings at college. Souls getting blighted at college. Innocents being exploited at college. The Abyss gapes wide at college, and they call in "Enlightenment".

Were I you, I'd tell the guy, "Look, there's two important things you need to do and keep in mind with making a character for this campaign.  #1, your characters are college students.  #2, your characters are interested in urban exploration.

That means your character needs to be a college student, and you need to be motivated to explore abandoned structures.  I don't need a page of your haunting war experiences in Timor.  If you can boil your motivation for exploring abandoned structures down to a sentence or two and give me another couple sentences describing your character...  like his Fear, Anger, and Noble stimulii, it'll be cool."

Quote from: RedFoxWere I you, I'd tell the guy, "Look, there's two important things you need to do and keep in mind with making a character for this campaign.  #1, your characters are college students.  #2, your characters are interested in urban exploration.

That means your character needs to be a college student, and you need to be motivated to explore abandoned structures.  I don't need a page of your haunting war experiences in Timor.  If you can boil your motivation for exploring abandoned structures down to a sentence or two and give me another couple sentences describing your character...  like his Fear, Anger, and Noble stimulii, it'll be cool."

I think that this is great advice; I would let this first character go, assuming that the player had read the UA intro after drinking too much coffee or whatever. If, after being told what RedFox suggests, his second character still won't fit in, then you have a problem.

Also, thinking about this:

Quote from: JimBobOzI was thinking that could perhaps be a method of screening potential players. Just get them to create a character, "whatever you like, in whatever system you like, I just want to know what sort of character you like to play." Creating a character in any system or setting without any constraints or guidelines will tell you a lot about their playstyle.

Or that's the untested, just-made-up, theory. What do you guys reckon?

I think I would suffer some kind of "writers-block" if you dumped a "any character, any system" thing on me. Give me at least a bit of a focus ("modern day college student" is great) to hang my thoughts on.

Quote from: RedFox.... and you need to be motivated to explore abandoned structures.  I don't need a page of your haunting war experiences in Timor.

Just for the record there were plenty of abandoned structures in Timor c1999.

I'm pretty sure I know exactly where he got this character from and I am amused.  However to reveal how I know this would mean admitting one of my few vices

So the character is homeless with mental health problems?

Although credible enough, it just doesn't fit the game, particularly the homeless part.  I can't even see him as a college security guard, most colleges I figure don't hire homeless guys who wear shades and refuse to take them off during interview.

It's not a bad UA character, but it's not a UA character for this game.  Why not ask him to try again this time making sure his character is a college kid who likes exploring abandoned structures?

I'm not that familiar with UA, but why not reach a slight compromise over this.?

The character could be a student who likes exploring things who has had visions of another 'past history' where he did and encountered exactly what he has written as his character history. This could have been triggered by a certain exploration in his past and might lead to an interesting story development, where they get to find out how these visions came to be and what they mean. Hell, he could even become badass when the triggers imprinted on him from his fake past come to pass.

As i said, that's just an idea from someone who has never played UA, so i don't know if that could be done with the rules etc.

Quote from: JimBobOzLet me guess - you've got the first edition of UA, where they gave the example where the GM has an idea, everyone agrees to it, then some gamer brings along his girlfriend to game for the first time ever, and she says, "hey! We could be a family of inbred mutant cannibals!" and the game book says the GM is stupid if they don't go with that later, crazy idea.

Yeah, they took that out of 2nd edition. For a good reason - it's BOLLOCKS.

To be fair to the 1st Edition, the specific example had all the other players say "Hey, mutant cannibals is a really good idea! We should go with that." It would be pretty dumb of the GM to turn around and say "No! We're not going with the campaign concept that everyone in the game group except me prefers, we're going to stick with my original idea which you are all less enthusiastic about!"

On the other hand, in my social circle at least it's a pretty unlikely scenario in the first place. You don't sign up for a campaign if the concept doesn't excite you, and if the concept excites you you are going to be reluctant to drop it for something else (unless "something else" really blows your socks off).

Quote from: JimBobOzI was thinking that could perhaps be a method of screening potential players. Just get them to create a character, "whatever you like, in whatever system you like, I just want to know what sort of character you like to play." Creating a character in any system or setting without any constraints or guidelines will tell you a lot about their play style.

Or that's the untested, just-made-up, theory. What do you guys reckon?

I've done some of this over the years. Had them create their own groups. I've been lucky, my core group of players communicate very well, and have lots of ideas. Our games are very much driven by them, and far less so by me as the Game Master.

I do agree that you learn a little about the Players through their characters. If you're paying attention you can pick up on little things, that if used properly can be entertaining.

Quote from: Consonant DudeI've thought further about it and if you decide to let him play the character: make him a security guard at the university, perhaps befriending some of the students. That's perfect for his background. The military skills are relevant and so is the fact he's tired of extreme violence. Security jobs are a haven for this.

He works the nightshift, befriends other PCs that way. Probably overhears stuff sometimes. Gains their trust and somehow gets involved. Won't be hard to have a bully on campus to harass a student and act as a catalyst if necessary.

This strikes me as workable -- sometimes having a character who's *outside* of the agreed parameters can work if the player is ready to put in the effort to have his crazy security guard be friends and work well with the other players/characters.

I'd make sure that the game *started out* with them being friends -- to ensure that this guy won't just wander off on his own...

And I'd make sure the other players were cool with that.

Cheers,
-E.