Quote from: The Traveller;695127No no, that's just the mustard on the hot dog.

Hot dogs, meh.

Mmm, Tommy's chili cheese Trollburger ...

@Taustin -

The Traveller isn't wrong.  While you may be correct that verisimilitude is the desired state (the appearance of being realistic), when something appears realistic, most people say 'that was realistic'.  

Having realistic basics, like falling damage (ie, basics that don't damage verisimilitude), makes it easier to accept the truly fantastic (like having 8 foot penises, or whatever you have in your fantasy game).  

When nothing works in a realistic fashion (like if I could fall and miss the ground to begin flying a la Hitchhiker's Guide then I don't even begin to know how things should work without the fantastic elements - or rather everything is fantastic.  

So when things have the appearance of corresponding to real world expectations, we usually call it realistic.  When it doesn't correspond to real world expectations, we point out that it damages verisimilitude (because it's unrealistic).

Quote from: The Traveller;695125Although to be honest even the dictionary definition you supplied calls them synonyms, and so can be used interchangeably. English, learn some. Although I'm finding this repeated foot shooting entertaining so if you don't want to you don't have to.

Once again, in this thread, there were (at least) two people obviously using different definitions, and obivously, neither of them was aware of it. I've pointed that out several times. You refuse to acknowledge it's been said, much less respond to it.

Again, why does that piss you off so much?

Quote from: The Traveller;695127No no, that's just the mustard on the hot dog.

If that were the case, you'd be continuing the actual on-topic discussion. You're not, that I can see.

Ergo, either you're lying, or you're completely deluded by your own weakness. Either way, you're the problem.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;695133oh joy.  Another thread of taustin being taustin.  The word 'realism' is perfectly fine to use.

If that were the case, there wouldn't have been the confusion I responded to.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;695133and then doubles up by complaining about people calling names after just getting done making dick references.

I didn't start the namecalling, retard. Now, yes, I'm namecalling, because that's all you're doing, and all you will be doing. You, too, have completely derailed the original subject so that you can prove how small your dick is by calling me names.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;695174@Taustin -

The Traveller isn't wrong.  [/QUOTE]

I was responding to two people who were using the same word with different meanings, and clearly not aware of it. I will keep pointing that out as long as the tiny-dicked retards keep ignoring it.

Why is it that someone trying to clear up an obvious minsunderstanding (and I did so entirely politely) pissess you off so much? Seriously, dude, why does that get under your skin? Is it that you just can't stand the thought of rational discussion between other people, who aren't paying attention to you? That makes you a troll, and nothing more.

Quote from: taustin;695196wah

Quote from: taustin;695197waah

Quote from: taustin;695198waaah

Quote from: taustin;695200waaaah

You're done, son. I'm just mopping up the bar afterwards. Maybe in your next incarnation you'll be a little more provident in your decisions.

Christmas, are you 2 still at this?  
The English definition is not the same as the compartmentalized, hobby specific definition.  They are not synonymous in our hobby, one is a subset of the other.

Realistic applies to how something compares to the players expectation of the real world, such as physics or human nature.  

Verisimilitude is a subset of realism, and can apply to realism, but also includes internally consistent logic within a campaign.  

In a Venn Diagram, they share a lot of space, but not the same space.  Gravity and greed are normally examples of both whereas magic, if done right, can be an example of Verisimilitude but not of magic.  But this means in many cases, they can be used interchangeably.    

As the DeadDMwalking mentioned, using realism well sets up verisimilitude.

The problem with an 8ft long penis is, it sounds great...until you realize you need an 8ft deep vagina.  Things become rather unattractive at that point.

Quote from: CRKrueger;695254The problem with an 8ft long penis is, it sounds great...until you realize you need an 8ft deep vagina.  Things become rather unattractive at that point.

Unattractive...or awesome?

Quote from: JonWake;695261Unattractive...or awesome?

The possibilities...:hmm:

How the fuck did this discussion get to talking about 8 feet long penises?

Like Vreeg said it is a Venn diagram.  I always saw it as something Like this.

Quote from: CRKrueger;695268Like Vreeg said it is a Venn diagram.  I always saw it as something Like this.

I disagree with that diagram. Verisimilitude is about apparence of reality, in other words, believability. Now what is believable depends on the context of the game world, and some things may be believable or unbelievable while being realistic or unrealistic. This is something that is only tenuously related to actual positive reality, since it is in fact predicated on our own personal, subjective, perceptions, expectations, and imaginations extrapolating the possible from impossible contexts.

For instance. A Methuselah lifting a building in Vampire the Masquerade is completely unrealistic for a variety of reasons involving physics, biology, etc, but it can be believable (= verisimilar) in the context of the World of Darkness when a combination of supernatural disciplines and magickal laws of the universe are involved (not to mention, a Methuselah piercing the Earth's crust with its fists... but I'm getting side-tracked here).

So verisimilar things are not necessarily realistic. Your Venn diagram doesn't reflect that.

Verisimilitude has a narrower meaning from its philosophical origins of "closer to truth", which in RPG terms would mean closer to our reality.  The broader meaning, coming more from literature means believable, which in RPG terms would mean suspension of disbelief.

VtM has internal logic of that world, which is not our own, even though there is a great overlap.  So how vampirism works, the methods of transmission, the power of methuselahs all is believable if it is coherent and remains consistent with regards to its own internal logic.

Where the WoD overlaps with reality is where a game system is going to be what most people term "realistic" but is really "verisimilar".  Most people don't question why Ventrue have Fortitude or why Toreador have Celerity, they just do, there's no dissonance in comparison to our world, because in our world these things don't exist, so suspension of disbelief of fantastic elements is very easy as long as the setting stays coherent and obeys the physics and science of that world, aka Internal Logic.

Where a game can fall down and where suspension of disbelief is hard to attain is when something that exists in both our Reality and the reality of the game world does not function the same.  For example, in the WoD, there exist both .22 pistols and .50 rifles.  In our world a .50 rifle will usually and dramatically outdamage a .22 pistol.  If the WoD made it so that a .50 rifle did not outdamage a .22 pistol, it would be jarring.  Something that exists as the same thing in both worlds does not do or act like the same thing in both worlds is a dissonance that inhibits suspension of disbelief.

At this point the game loses verisimilitude because what should act like reality does not.  So, when we're talking about Verisimilitude with respect to comparing our reality to another reality where you're going to really nail the setting is where our world and the other world overlap.  This grounds the campaign and provides a stable foundation from which the players can experience the fantastic elements of the setting.

If there is no comparison to reality, then the term verisimilitude has no meaning IMO, it's not just a synonym for "believable" in other words.