Quote from: RPGPundit;283136The answer is more or less like the answer to "What is D&D?".

FtA! is certainly fantasy, has certainly got an old-school feel, it is a toolkit (not a universal one in the GURPS sense, though), and it is not a setting (there is a setting in FtA!GN! of course, but that's strictly optional).

The idea that an RPG will only be good, or will be better, if its limited to being only ONE of the above things, is nothing more than moronic Forge propaganda. History (and D&D) has proven the opposite to be true.

RPGPundit

And I never said it would be. Having the ability to communicate to your customers clearly what it is and is not, though, will help folks have a better experience with your game.

I think Clash is doing some good communicating over on the other thread.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;283326I think Clash is doing some good communicating over on the other thread.

RPGPundit

I would disagree.

In honor of this thread, we will be playing Swords & Wizardry...and we will rock.

Quote from: HinterWelt;283373I would disagree.

I disagree with your disagreement. Reading clash's comments I finally understood what FtA is *exactly*. And it sounds unique and interesting. If I weren't so indifferent to the T&T combat resolution...

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;283468I disagree with your disagreement. Reading clash's comments I finally understood what FtA is *exactly*. And it sounds unique and interesting. If I weren't so indifferent to the T&T combat resolution...

And yet there seemed several people still not clear. I do not doubt Clash's ability to explain at length what FtA is about, I doubt his ability to do so in short or in terms that are clear to its intent. In fact, his clearest explanation did not come from him...it came from someone who played the game.

Please note, this is not an attack on Clash. We all do certain things well. I am not sure concise market speak is something Clash is well versed in. I was merely offering suggestions and will bow out at this point before I raise the ire of potentates and generals.

Quote from: HinterWelt;283470And yet there seemed several people still not clear. I do not doubt Clash's ability to explain at length what FtA is about, I doubt his ability to do so in short or in terms that are clear to its intent. In fact, his clearest explanation did not come from him...it came from someone who played the game.

Please note, this is not an attack on Clash. We all do certain things well. I am not sure concise market speak is something Clash is well versed in. I was merely offering suggestions and will bow out at this point before I raise the ire of potentates and generals.

I'm not a marketing writer, and have never pretended to be one. It is neither natural nor easy for me to write marketing material, and when I write it - which I have to do - it sounds forced and awkward to me. Far from disagreeing with Bill, I agree entirely. I try, and I do my best, but my best is not very good.

-clash

Added: And this should be in the FtA! comments thread!

well then, maybe we should get skyrock or whoever to do our marketing blurbs for us.  I think hinterwelt is exaggerating the issue, but I do agree with the idea that NO ONE is a better marketer than the satisfied customers themselves.

RPGPundit

Me as a non-native speaker as marketing spin-doctor? This sounds like a recipe for a reenactment of the Quin marketing disaster.

And in regards of the "satisfied customer", I'm probably the one-in-thousand exception in the target group, as I certainly enjoy a good traditional dungeon-crawl, but hadn't yet found a system that really makes me happy. Even FtA! certainly isn't yet *perfect*, but as it is delivered in the box it's the closest thing to what I've been in search of, and with the one or another houserule, it's even damn close to what I've been looking for.
Other folks mileage will vary (for instance, while I have a dislike for the more wonky parts of older D&D like the ThAC0 calculation or the thief's proto-skills, other folks enjoy it just *because* of that), and even those who align with my preferences and would agree that FtA! takes a step ahead would need to weight the effort of re-learning, re-prepping, group persuasion etc. with the potential boons.

I take as evidence that even here, I'm the only one who yet makes use of FtA! and speaks about it. At least I haven't heard in a long time what other folks who picked it up and tried it back then (Sean, joewolz, jrients, Zachary etc.) are currently doing with the game.

How about a Forge AP, Skyrock? Ron Edwards is a T&T fan.

Quote from: kregmosier;283407In honor of this thread, we will be playing Swords & Wizardry...and we will rock.

Excellent!  Post your results on the Swords & Wizardry forums!

Quote from: Skyrock;283576I take as evidence that even here, I'm the only one who yet makes use of FtA! and speaks about it. At least I haven't heard in a long time what other folks who picked it up and tried it back then (Sean, joewolz, jrients, Zachary etc.) are currently doing with the game.

I think one of the things I find weird about FtA! is that the Pundit's got an audience but there's no sense of an FtA! community - no FtA! forums, just that one page where you can buy it. There are countless threads where there's only 2 or 3 of us making any comment upon Pundit's ideas for the schools of magic. Apart from Skyrock's Trollans -there wasn't a lot of homebrewing going on months after FtA! had come out. I prefer scenius to genius, I love collaboration between fans - sparking ideas off each other, but I wasn't getting this from FtA! so I went back to playing Redbox Hack, Microlite 20/74/hard core and more recently Swords and Wizardry, all of which have a vitality that FtA! has lost along the way.

All of this I find a mite depressing as I've had a load of fun with FtA! in the past. It's a bloody good set of rules but if it lacks the support and interest of the RPGsiters it's gonna sink - who else knows about it ? My gaming group played the hell out of it, our last campaign was based upon a ship of wizards and the crew touring an Earthsea-like world of islands and archipelagos. It was mint.

And if anyone slags of Clash's artwork I will chin them - it's spot on.

Quote from: Sean !;283642I think one of the things I find weird about FtA! is that the Pundit's got an audience but there's no sense of an FtA! community - no FtA! forums, just that one page where you can buy it. There are countless threads where there's only 2 or 3 of us making any comment upon Pundit's ideas for the schools of magic. Apart from Skyrock's Trollans -there wasn't a lot of homebrewing going on months after FtA! had come out. I prefer scenius to genius, I love collaboration between fans - sparking ideas off each other, but I wasn't getting this from FtA! so I went back to playing Redbox Hack, Microlite 20/74/hard core and more recently Swords and Wizardry, all of which have a vitality that FtA! has lost along the way.

All of this I find a mite depressing as I've had a load of fun with FtA! in the past. It's a bloody good set of rules but if it lacks the support and interest of the RPGsiters it's gonna sink - who else knows about it ? My gaming group played the hell out of it, our last campaign was based upon a ship of wizards and the crew touring an Earthsea-like world of islands and archipelagos. It was mint.

And if anyone slags of Clash's artwork I will chin them - it's spot on.

Hi Sean!

Do you think maybe a Yahoo Group would help? I've got some good communities going with my In Harm's Way Napoleonic and IHW: Aces games.

-clash

Sean:
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. There has been a certain buzz around in the beginning, and then it died off mostly. Apart from Pundits FTA!GN! previews, I've been the only to put up something occassionally, like the cheat-sheet (which can be found on the HP) or my conversion of some of the TDE magic-user-types to FtA! spell schools (incomplete, didn't take off).

I also had some conversations with some Germans on German forums about the game, but none of them have done something with it. Most folks bought it only because of Pundits notoriety, most agreed that it's well done, though not outstanding, but not a single one of those has played it, not even for one-shots or test sessions.


In regards of homebrewing with FtA! though, I'm currently prepping a campaign in the vein of West Marches and Cinder, which includes also changed and new races, together with some house-rules and adaptions (for instance, I'm already certain about adopting Jeff's Ale&Wenches-rule, which will also result in some retooling of the experience system to make it work).

Maybe it would it help if I translate some of the crunchy bits to English. That would have to wait though until everything is set for playing, as I put keeping promises to my players above pimping the system used. (Especially as I hooked up again with a old player of me from my very first group, who had to drop out due to his unsteady scheduling in his study situation, and is now keen of the Cinderesque "Wednesday's game day, cool if you can drop by, if you can't, it's cool too" approach to finally get some gaming again. So it's important to me, as we haven't found the time to game together in more then 5 years... But ah, I digress.)

To put my half-done TDE conversion to good use, I'm also going to re-use most of the spell lists and twist them a bit around to fit the setting better - namely Buffoon school (as the race-specific magic of the goblins), Sharisad (as a native magic from my pseudo-Polynesia) and Witchcraft/Witch Curse (as the spell lists of the obligatory pseudo-feminist secret earth mother cult).


Clash:
A yahoo group is certainly better then nothing, it's easy to set up, and it's comfortable to combine with downloadable files and their announcement.
However, it's isolated and mostly ignored by outsiders (as opposed to more centralized forums like here, where you have your account and your right to post already anyway and are more ready to contribute to it if the urge hits you).
So I'd rather look if FtA! could get an own forum here, as here's anyway the rules FAQ and therefore anyway a forum to look at for FtA! players. Of course, I have doubts that here would be much public support for such an unpopular system, and it could result in everyone wanting their own forum for their own system here.

Pinhead should definitely set up a forum. He should also play it and write AP reports. He's missing a golden opportunity for promotion. I'm serious about the Forge thing, too.