Old-school Rocks, Retro-clones Suck

P&P · February 10, 2009, 01:29:23 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;282933Unless "P&P" is Gary Gygax posting from beyond the grave, its not really his game, is it?

It's Gary's underlying game mechanics, enabled by Matt "Mythmere" Finch's vision, re-imagined by a bunch of helpful people from the internet.

But it's my name on the cover and my cock on the block.

P&P · February 10, 2009, 01:32:51 PM

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;282882Nonono, it's the other way around.

No, really: Mythmere's right.

OSRIC's my copyright; Mythmere and I own the trademark jointly. (Mythmere also owns Swords & Wizardry).

Dan Proctor was, admittedly, a fairly prolific contributor to OSRIC 2 but the games he actually owns are Labyrinth Lord, Mutant Future and GORE. Labyrinth Lord is his most popular game, but I think Mutant Future's the most interesting.

James J Skach · February 10, 2009, 01:40:24 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;282962Oi!

Well, 1971.

And it's "brown box", not "AD&D DM's Guide".

I was 5...

Hey OG - you going to GaryCon? First Beer is on me - and I don't drink (much) so you probably won't even have to return the favor!

RandallS · February 10, 2009, 02:16:24 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;282970Old Schoolers should not be a target market for FtA! at all.

OI picked up a PDF copy of FtA! a week or so ago to see if it really was something Old School. It looks like an interesting gamesystem, but it doesn't strike me as something most "old school" style players would be very interested in. I know I'm not really interested in playing it, although I might borrow a few ideas (random tables are almost always good!) from it.

Gronan of Simmerya · February 10, 2009, 02:38:02 PM

Quote from: PaladinCA;282967I was one year old when you started playing D&D.

* cries *

Gronan of Simmerya · February 10, 2009, 02:39:13 PM

Quote from: James J Skach;282974I was 5...

Hey OG - you going to GaryCon? First Beer is on me - and I don't drink (much) so you probably won't even have to return the favor!

Where/when is it? (damn, they're keeping it quiet, or something)

Akrasia · February 10, 2009, 03:25:15 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;282980Where/when is it? (damn, they're keeping it quiet, or something)

http://www.garycon.com/

(I wish I was going ...

)

James J Skach · February 10, 2009, 04:07:25 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;282980Where/when is it? (damn, they're keeping it quiet, or something)

Akrasia got the link there...right..see it? it's right...there...

Anyway, my DM and I (at the least) are driving up from Crystal Lake - so that's about an hour and a half, depending. I don't have the money to stay overnight, and I'm not sure, yet, what Sunday holds...

Come on over to my house and we'll talk

Gronan of Simmerya · February 10, 2009, 04:33:12 PM

Oh, Budgefars! Gary Con is scheduled for the same weekend I have already commited to going to Kansas City and playing model train geek.

Poop.

James J Skach · February 10, 2009, 04:45:23 PM

Ah well, perhaps another time!

Have fun!

mwhite212 · February 10, 2009, 05:02:26 PM

Quote from: wiseman207;281782A lot of things said here are true.

Maybe retroclones and their supplement products will indeed never be commercially viable. They are however legal and free to developers and players. I don't see what's "sucky" about offering that sort of utility, even if it is only existing fans that will bother to take advantage of it.

I must reiterate that to say a game like LL is different (or even distiguishable) from D&D in ANY sense is a terrible misconception. It is a relative, they are one in the same. Players of Basic D&D will use LL. The same goes for other simulacrum products. If you happen to run LL, you ARE running Basic D&D. The distinction here is arbitrary, and made by people who cannot separate name from product. If you're not blowing your nose on a Kleenex, but your target is still made of soft paper... it's still a tissue. The only way to get a experience different enough to be worth distinguishing is to use a handkerchief or your finger... a different RPG altogether, if you will.

Personally, I never buy supplements for anything. I don't read free ones, either. That, and I don't like ebay. So, there you have it. LL was what I wanted, and though perhaps not its intended function, it has one nonetheless.

Love your imaginative if slightly disgusting analogy! And I agree...how can LL suck if they just said Moldvay Basic is awesome? It's 97% the same game. And now you can legally...with a wink and a nudge...make Basic D&D adventures and products under the LL name.

The Shaman · February 10, 2009, 05:37:04 PM

So here's a question for y'all: is Mongoose Traveller just a high-budget retro-clone of "classic" Traveller?

RandallS · February 10, 2009, 06:02:45 PM

Quote from: The Shaman;283008So here's a question for y'all: is Mongoose Traveller just a high-budget retro-clone of "classic" Traveller?

I think so. It is certainly close enough to Classic Traveller that all my CT adventures and most of the supplemental material will work just fine. I figured I would hate Mongoose Traveller based on some of their other product, but was pleasantly surprised by something that is really "close enough" to CT.

Spinachcat · February 10, 2009, 06:25:39 PM

Quote from: P&P;282973Labyrinth Lord is his most popular game, but I think Mutant Future's the most interesting.

Very True. LL is a good solid retroclone, but MF is Gamma World Improved.

Quote from: The Shaman;283008So here's a question for y'all: is Mongoose Traveller just a high-budget retro-clone of "classic" Traveller?

Yes.

arminius · February 11, 2009, 02:44:52 AM

Had a look at the FTA sampler via that DF thread and what most struck me is the art at the beginning. It's not a good choice for old school and IMO it's also incongruous with the title. I always thought FTA was an over the top name for an RPG but that piece is so...earnest.