Yeah I did look at the Index. But since I'm so familiar with MSH in several flavors, I'm looking for a reason to buy this. An Index isn't cutting it.

Looking at the Index, of FASERIPopedia, it's just a small condensation of FASERIP that anyone that already runs FASERIP already does for themselves (it's its own flavor it). Trying to find real information about this product *Epic Fantasy* is a *pain in the ass*. That's what I'm asking for: something solid I can look at.

There is TON of excellent quality material out there for FASERIP. And it's free. I'm *wanting* to give my gold for something good. But I'm not going to toss out money for something that I already have, or is a retread of something that's already out there. Where is the free preview?

It IS a steep climb to try and codify FASERIP into something novel. It IS possible. But it's up against the fandom that is already producing excellent material for free. So this sounds like a good product concept actually. But fuck me if this marketing (much less the authors posts) is giving me any reason. I *want* to give my money. Let me be clear. FASERIP is a big deal for me as a GM and consumer of TTRPG products.

But go to the website and try to navigate around it for this particular product. Try finding any relevant information from the blurb on a PR site that is meaningful. Having and Index that cites things that FASERIP already does with little difficulty without actual examples, shows me little thought towards marketing. Even if I'm a noob and know nothing about FASERIP how annoyed ill I be to buy this and find out 95% of the mechanics are already free and readily available?

TL/DR - give me some solid free examples that I can't easily do with the regular rules, + Realms of Magic and a little imagination. Take my gold.

Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
TL/DR - give me some solid free examples that I can't easily do with the regular rules, + Realms of Magic and a little imagination. Take my gold.

Well, technically, you can pretty much do everything with what you already have. But the point of something like this (for me anyway) is that it has done a lot of the heavy lifting and put it into one neat package. This means that I don't have to sweat on the minutia and it's all integrated pretty well. Also, the Universal table is also now geared/converted towards epic fantasy as well as everything else from FASERIP (I mean, that's a big freakin time saver if I ever saw one!).

Basically, you probably don't need this if you already have everything, and want to work on your own version of Fantasy FASERIP. I mean, I have lots of the old Marvel stuff (and all the stuff from Classic Marvel Forever) and I also have pretty much got all the clone stuff that has been released.

So when FASERIPopedia came out I snapped it up. Sure, I didn't need it, but I was just delighted to have everything put neatly in one place and had options that I'd not seen. Incidentally, I paid the full whack of 23 euro! And now its new price is 11e and I don't regret it.

To be fair, I've also got to know the author after I wrote my review of FASERIPopedia, incidentally. Whos a very nice guy and a big proponent of old-school stuff. I've pretty much-bought everything he's released but YMMV.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 23, 2023, 12:19:01 PM

Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
TL/DR - give me some solid free examples that I can't easily do with the regular rules, + Realms of Magic and a little imagination. Take my gold.

Well, technically, you can pretty much do everything with what you already have. But the point of something like this (for me anyway) is that it has done a lot of the heavy lifting and put it into one neat package. This means that I don't have to sweat on the minutia and it's all integrated pretty well. Also, the Universal table is also now geared/converted towards epic fantasy as well as everything else from FASERIP (I mean, that's a big freakin time saver if I ever saw one!).

Basically, you probably don't need this if you already have everything, and want to work on your own version of Fantasy FASERIP. I mean, I have lots of the old Marvel stuff (and all the stuff from Classic Marvel Forever) and I also have pretty much got all the clone stuff that has been released.

So when FASERIPopedia came out I snapped it up. Sure, I didn't need it, but I was just delighted to have everything put neatly in one place and had options that I'd not seen. Incidentally, I paid the full whack of 23 euro! And now its new price is 11e and I don't regret it.

To be fair, I've also got to know the author after I wrote my review of FASERIPopedia, incidentally. Whos a very nice guy and a big proponent of old-school stuff. I've pretty much-bought everything he's released but YMMV.

Can you talk him into providing some snippets that we can all talk about and discuss?

Quote from: tenbones on August 23, 2023, 12:44:31 PM
Can you talk him into providing some snippets that we can all talk about and discuss?

Sure, I'll ask him.

Quote from: tenbones on August 21, 2023, 10:08:28 AM
I assume it's just the FASERIP rules with... D&D Fantasy stuff tossed in? Not sure what the draw is (of course I'd need to see it). There are fan-made PDF's for most of the D&D Monster Manual catalog, including setting specific ones that are all statted for FASERIP. Not sure what this game is bringing to the table that couldn't be done with a simple use of the rules as written with the ginormous amount of fan material out there.

I've said for decades, that FASERIP could do epic fantasy that D&D couldn't hope to achieve in terms of scale and power. Nice to see someone pulled the trigger on it. I'll be interested to see if he tries to tweak the mechanics. As someone currently running FASERIP right now, I have a lot of my own homebrewed rules that I've used for many years now to fill in some perceived holes in the mechanics. I'm always on the lookout for some new ideas.

Tenbones,

Can you provide a link to to the FASERIP fantasy recources?
Not having much luck at ClassicMarvelForever.com.

Thanks!

Quote from: Aglondir on August 24, 2023, 03:02:51 AM

Quote from: tenbones on August 21, 2023, 10:08:28 AM
I assume it's just the FASERIP rules with... D&D Fantasy stuff tossed in? Not sure what the draw is (of course I'd need to see it). There are fan-made PDF's for most of the D&D Monster Manual catalog, including setting specific ones that are all statted for FASERIP. Not sure what this game is bringing to the table that couldn't be done with a simple use of the rules as written with the ginormous amount of fan material out there.

I've said for decades, that FASERIP could do epic fantasy that D&D couldn't hope to achieve in terms of scale and power. Nice to see someone pulled the trigger on it. I'll be interested to see if he tries to tweak the mechanics. As someone currently running FASERIP right now, I have a lot of my own homebrewed rules that I've used for many years now to fill in some perceived holes in the mechanics. I'm always on the lookout for some new ideas.

Tenbones,

Can you provide a link to to the FASERIP fantasy recources?
Not having much luck at ClassicMarvelForever.com.

Thanks!

You'd have to extrapolate what you want from the massive amount of stuff here.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B4FIJ1gUksHQFLqrNYZ439JSkpm8uH4U?fbclid=IwAR1mY7V_TE8tmyztdcRA9_HYdMg1yc5-iKmX1Qiw_CO0s0Gg7DO5SEH_0fo

But basically - if I were doing a Fantasy based game, I'd customize my own list of gear and make it a little more robust. I'd leverage the Realms of Magic book which you can get from here: https://mshgamer.com/downloads/book-resources/

I don't do traditional CharGen in MSH like in the book. I reduce randomness, simply by negotiating with the player what they want to play, and we work out the options/power levels/etc. based on the campaign I'm running.

A lot of the magical stuff in Marvel is covered in the various UCP products - you'll have to pick the elements you care about. But most MSH stuff is pretty much self-contained within the core system.

Is there something in particular you'd want to know how to do, or convert? I'd be happy to give any advice I could offer.

Thanks for the links. I played FASERIP when it was new, but we mostly did simple slugfests. Looking at it now, for fantasy, my main question is: How do you handle the granularity on the low-end? The chart has Typical (6), Good (10), and Excellent (20) which seems to cover the range of typical fantasy characters. Or do you extend it further into the range? Incredible Fighting might make sense, but fantasy heroes shouldn't have Incredible Agility. Or should they? (i.e. Legolas in LOTR?)

Could you stat out a starting Rogue, Fighter, and Mage? That might give me a better idea of the scope.

Quote from: Aglondir on August 29, 2023, 08:28:29 PM
Thanks for the links. I played FASERIP when it was new, but we mostly did simple slugfests. Looking at it now, for fantasy, my main question is: How do you handle the granularity on the low-end? The chart has Typical (6), Good (10), and Excellent (20) which seems to cover the range of typical fantasy characters. Or do you extend it further into the range? Incredible Fighting might make sense, but fantasy heroes shouldn't have Incredible Agility. Or should they? (i.e. Legolas in LOTR?)

Could you stat out a starting Rogue, Fighter, and Mage? That might give me a better idea of the scope.

Okay! Good question. I'll answer it two ways - how it's currently done (I'll take some liberties), and how *I* would do it if I were designing a game *specifically* to emulate "D&D-style" fantasy.

The Standard Method
First some concepts need to be grounded so we all understand wtf I'm talking about (for non-FASERIP players). The Ranks *mean* something. "Typ(6)" literally means "normal" person. Whatever that means in your setting for a normal person to possess a stat, that rank is the baseline. I'll forego the lower ranks since they're not important for demonstration. Each successive rank is *supposed* to mean a significant jump in ability. I'd classify like this:

Fighting
Typical(6) - Normal peasant: You know which end is the pointy end, and not to stick it in your eye. No formal training.
Good(10) - Some formal training or practice: You've been drilled into the local militia, you're a practiced tavern brawler.
Excellent(20) - Well trained: You've been trained by soldiers, or lots of experience in combat, fighting in arenas.
Remarkable(30) - Very well trained: You've been trained by masters and have seen combat many times. You'd be considered a Master of arms by normal people.
Incredible(40) - Weapon master: You're probably a regional legend with your combat prowess, and likely known beyond that.
Amazing(50) - Legendary warrior: Peak warrior fighting ability. There are legends about your ability even now, before you die.

So each rank has it's tiers and should be understood as such so that the ranks are not just numbers, but the ranks *mean* something. Same is true for each stat. For Fighting in particular, it has mechanical benefits as getting multiple attacks depends on the Rank Feat to determine how many attacks you can make. Also your defensive maneuvers such as Evasion depends on it.

Should PC's have high-ranking stats? Totally depends on you and what you want. Much like in Supers, a gritty street-level setting, might not have people with ridiculous stats, but it should be relative to the setting not the characters themselves. Having a PC with IN(40) fighting - means exactly what it means, they're near peak-human killing machine. That is the same fighting ability as Wolverine, Daredevil, Ironfist - think about that when your PC's are running around with those stats.

There are human maximums and it's not uniform for each stat. So those should be your baselines.

Fighting - AM(50)
Agility - IN(40)
Strength - EX(20)
Endurance - EX(20)
Reason - AM(50)
Intuition - IN(40)
Psyche - AM(50)

These are the human maximums according to the system. So each stat would have a tiered list of what each Rank means at each level. But the mechanics are set on those assumptions. You should not have any need to go beyond them barring magic-items or spells, or being non-human.

So the normal combat mechanics covers 95% of anything you'd need to do in D&D-style fighting. Of course it's expressed a little differently (it's a lot faster and more cinematic). The real thing you'd need to get granular on is breaking out more weapon types, with weapon-specifics (like letting a Bill-Hook grapple someone), or including fantastic materials and rank their material-strength.

Okay... how *I* would do it...

I would break out "Class based abilities" as powers.

Backstab - I'd make that a straight Power Rank that does Power Rank damage that on a successful Fighting check (providing you made your Stealth roll to sneak up on your target) with increased effect based on the color-shift and the type of weapon you used (Edged/Blunt).

I'd convert certain Feats into a Fighting Power-stunts, and I'd break out some Feats to have Fighting/Agility Rank pre-requisites.

Magic Items Are Powers

Girdle of Giant Strength? Increases your Strength to RM(30) Hill Giant (1-ton), IN(40) Stone giant (10-tons), AM(50) Frost/Fire Giant (50-tons), MN(75) Storm Giant (75-tons) UN(100) Titan (100+tons).

Bracers of Archery - Rank level accuracy when shooting a ranged weapon. You could even give it side-abilities like giving you a Rank bonus to Fighting checks for multiple actions.

Troll Hide Belt - Power Rank Regeneration.

Ring of Protection - Power Rank Body armor.

Magical Weapons - +CS to hit/dmg.

I can literally do this all day including making up items on the fly for fun.

Spellcasting - Spells are powers just like in the Realms of Magic book. You can modify them to do V,S,M, components if you want that "feel". It's not really an issue.

You can literally do anything you need/want and scale it from low-magic gritty to UNBELIEVEABLE God-mode powerlevels.

a BIG modification I do to FASERIP - this is new even to my group which is having a great positive impact is addressing the following issue.

I call it - The Aunt May Frying Pan Problem.

The Problem
This is certainly not a knock on the system, considering it was created almost 40-years ago. It's *still* way ahead of its time even today. So one of the issues is the assumption that Ranks mean things, in the abstract, but the mechanics don't always quite support the narrative assumptions of the rules. This is seen precisely in Armor Class rules of D&D. The ability "To Hit" someone in D&D has *nothing* to do with the skill of the Defender, rather, it has to do with the Armor they wear. We do not need to descend into arguing peoples views on HP (representing ones ability to not suffer lethal injury) - I'm talking about the exact mechanics and what they *actually* underpin. I've always found the arguments that have raged for DECADES (and are still active even here on this forum) about what HP are vs. what AC represents clouds the actual "issue".

So in FASERIP - an odd mechanical reality is that while elsewhere in the system comparing Ranks actually has mechanical realities (some Feats are *impossible* if the difficulty is too many ranks above your ability - likewise some are automatic if they're more than two ranks below). But in combat, the only mechanical abstraction that modifies ones ability to hit (and thankfully there ARE some) are the defensive moves you can make with your Agility (Dodge) and your Fighting (Evasion).

The PROBLEM is... as someone that very much understands that ones ability to actually fight should preclude themselves from being hit by someone hideously skilled with little to no effort. So much so that if Captain America, who is the *pinnacle* of human combat ability (Fighting AM(50), and Agility IN(40)) can actually be hit upside the head with a frying pan by Aunt May, even if he rolls a red-result on his Dodge, giving Aunt May -6 Column Shifts on her Fighting check. Aunt May's fighting is FEEBLE(2)... so it can only go one rank lower, Shift-Zero. On that column, she still has a 44% to hit the most dangerous human fighting machine in the Marvel Universe.

This has irked me for decades. It's a glaring issue that until recently I could never solve without having to redo the whole system. It also glared at me harder because one of the best things about Savage Worlds is the abstraction that ones Fighting ability is your actual active defense against people attacking you, and that's exactly what I want in FASERIP.

The Solution
The fix - which I've been experimenting with in my current very high-powered campaign is this:

All melee attacks are made with your Fighting on the TY(6) column. You compare the ranks between you and your target and subtract/add column shifts up or down depending on that difference. THEN you add any modifiers - Dodge rolls, Martial Arts Talents, Weapon Specialization. If the Attacker's CS is modified below Shift-Zero, *they cannot hit the target* (I have an optional rule that they can spend 100 karma to do it but most of my NPC's don't walk around with that much karma).

Example: Captain America is sparring without his Shield against Ironfist. Ironfist has IN(40) Fighting, Cap has AM(50). Both of them have all the Martial Arts Talents. So Ironfist is at a net -1CS vs. Cap in standup combat. He'd be rolling on the Poor(4) Column to land a solid punch against the Star Spangled Badass. This is not to say that Ironfist is a Poor combatant, it's to simulate that he and Cap are bobbing, weaving and feinting at such a high level that landing a blow on Cap is *hard*.

Conversely, Cap when he tries to tag Ironfist, is rolling on the Good(10) Column - which is markedly harder than him hitting a Hydra Goon. Because Ironfist *is that good*. Now if we wanted to make it even more difficult - Ironfist and Cap could both make Dodge rolls to modify this attack normally.

If Cap were fighting Hydra goons, he'd be rolling +4 CS (So on the IN(40) Column) as his baseline against Hydra goons with Good(10) Fighting. Then he'd add his Martial Arts B +1CS, and his Shield Specialization +3 more and yeah - he'd be bouncing that shield off their heads, while those Hydra goons would have almost no chance of hitting him... just like in the comics.

For Ranged attacks we substitute Agility for Fighting. This makes Spiderman *extremely* difficult to hit... and he SHOULD be. But the best part of this rule is other than the CS comparison and starting it at TY(6) for the baseline, ALL the rules of the FASERIP system still apply. There is no technical difference in calculation AT ALL except for the comparison which is trivial. All other Talents and combat mechanics are unchanged... what IS changed is the game feels more like a comicbook in terms of mechanics-to-narrative abstraction.

Cap can fight 50 Hydra Goons and bounce his Shield off of 4 people per round, while dodging, evading trying to get to the Red Skull who is trapped in his Monologue. Spiderman is dancing around while hailstorms of bullets are chasing him around and he does Lure manuevers to have the Hydra goon blast their own people in the process, to smithereens. And you're not adding any more complexity to the system.

This rule has been a huge game changer for me and my group.

Edit: And if I were to run a Fantasy D&D-inspired FASERIP game, I absolutely would be using this.

That's an interesting fix, TB.

I was always a bit annoyed at that aspect too. Generally, I fudged it to fit the narrative. So, even if little Jimmy manages to hit Captain America he will do him no harm. But that's a narrative fix and not necessarily a perfect solution by any means.

once you try it - even me and my own uber-skeptical players were doubtful - it works brilliantly.

Now things like "The super agile character doesn't necessarily have to have Body Armor" just in case because of a hole in the rules. Or - "wow... the GM just tossed 40 AIM soldiers at us... we're going get nickel-and-dimed to death."

It gives PC's (and NPC's) more wiggle-room and feel more heroic in *accordance* with what their stats mean. And it changes nothing to the overall system outside of this one small tweak.