I played B/X D&D before AD&D, and like many other people didn't *really* use all the AD&D rules.  I was playing B/X D&D upgraded with some extras from AD&D.

One of the rules I didn't understand / use properly was Speed Factor.  Here's how it works.

Both sides roll a d6 for initiative every round.  Highest roll goes first.

If there is a tie (1/6 of the time) then the weapon with the lower speed factor goes first. If the faster weapon has half or less of the speed of the slower one, or if the difference is five or more, then the faster weapon gets two strikes before the slower one.

This means that anytime there's a tie, a dagger attacks first with 2 attacks against a longsword.  If the character is using 2 daggers, they get 4 attacks!

A Monk's open hand attack (Speed Factor: 0) will *always* get 2 attacks against any opponent on a tie initiative roll.  Once every 6 rounds.

(I don't have my PHB nearby, but I think a shortsword will also get the extra attacks against most other weapons).

Did/does anyone use Speed Factor in their AD&D game?

What rules from an oldschool game didn't you understand / use properly when you were younger?  Now that you understand how the rule works better -- did/will you start using it?

Back in AD&D 2nd I never used any of the rules outside of combat, it seems.  I just used a roll-under d20 roll on the associated stat and went off of that.

I never made the PCs eat, either.

Looking back, I wonder if I should just ignore all that stuff again.

I don't think I've ever used hunger/deprivation rules or encumbrance rules for any game I've run.  They just involved too much book keeping and I've met few players really interested in these rules.

NPC reaction tables.  Too many nonsensical results.  I'd rather role-play interactions any with NPCs than let it fall to a roll of the dice.

Speed Factors from 1e/2e were pretty ridiculous.

Pit a halberd against a dagger, and the dude with the halberd easily gets the first hit.

-O

Stuart isn't looking for rules you think are dumb. He's looking for rules that you left out because you thought they were dumb, but you now realize they weren't.

This gives me a chance to once again trot out the wandering monster rule in classic D&D. I never left it out (though I preferred to use a customized table for a given dungeon). But I've run across more than one person who hated random encounters and so left them out. This made other elements of the game mechanics superfluous, because you no longer had to worry about time.

I remember that I completely left out the material components requirements for spells in AD&D, basically because making characters get the components was too much trouble and under-systematized. If I played the game today I'd like to bring them back because now I understand that they can be adventure hooks and/or a way to increase the relevance of money.

Quote from: StuartDid/does anyone use Speed Factor in their AD&D game?

Gygax himself didn't use speed factor. I asked him about it at EN World. He said he included it to mollify wargamers who were asking for stuff like that.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonGygax himself didn't use speed factor. I asked him about it at EN World. He said he included it to mollify wargamers who were asking for stuff like that.

Interesting.  I thought he'd said that about Weapon vs Armour Class (which I also didn't use) but I didn't know he didn't use Speed Factor either.

IIRC weapons vs. armor class was something that couldn't possibly work from a simulation perspective, though it may have added some interest to the choice of weapons. I'll explain.

Why couldn't it possibly work from a simulation perspective? Because while it certainly makes some sense that certain weapons might be better suited for attacking certain kinds of armor, the Armor Classes didn't fully distinguish types of armor. In other words, there were some ACs which could either be one type of armor without a shield, or a different type of armor with a shield. (Say, Banded+Shield vs. Plate Mail.) So, even if you accept everything else about AD&D's combat model, you've got this weirdness where a weapon will work the same way on two completely different armor systems (i.e. one with and one without a shield) but differently on two fairly similar ones (slightly different armors with no shield).

Of course the combat model isn't very realistic anyway, and that wasn't the point. And there, the weapon vs. AC might have made certain weapons useful, that would otherwise have been overshadowed. But then the problem was: boy, were the modifiers cumbersome to use. At least they didn't come into play with most monsters, only with humanoids wearing actual armor. (Again, IIRC.)

To clarify: I avoided the non-combat rules not because I thought they were stupid, but because I never took the time to understand them.

Nowadays I look at how my playstyle has changed over the years (Jimbob might mark it as Hack 4, Thesp 0), it might behoove me to go back to that minimal ruleset again.

I won't, though, because there's a chance I might want more than knife fights and shootouts from my RPGing.

Speed factor, which I still wouldn't use.

Any rules for falling or drowning, and I doubt I would use them now.

Usually though it's not a case of not understanding, as a case of not caring enough.

Quote from: BalbinusAny rules for falling or drowning, and I doubt I would use them now.

What do you do if a character falls in a 20' pit?  2d6 dmg?  3d6 dmg? Saving throw?  Something else?  

You must have used some kind of rules for falling.

speed factor, weapon vs. armor type, and strict encumbrance.
fuck that i want to keep it simple.

I remember when I played with my first group of functional players in AD&D.  I was trying to use the weapon proficiency, speed factor, and weapon versus armor class rules.  They acted like I had just dreamed up rules that didn't exist.  I had to point out each one in the PHB before they believed what I was talking about.

In all my time playing D&D, I never met people who used AD&D1's speed factors or weapon versus armor class (but I have seen them used in AD&D2, where the rules actually work).  In D&D in general, I never met anyone who actually used spell preparation.  Spellcasting was handled just like in games like Wizardry: if you had a slot, you could cast any spell of that slot's level you knew.

I also never saw anyone who used the AD&D unarmed combat rules as written.  Everyone just handled unarmed combat as a weapon doing 1d2 damage.

Quote from: StuartWhat do you do if a character falls in a 20' pit?  2d6 dmg?  3d6 dmg? Saving throw?  Something else?  

You must have used some kind of rules for falling.

It comes up so rarely that I make a ruling on the spot.  I don't use those rules enough to remember them and it's too slow to look them up in play.

Oh, encumbrance, I almost never use Encumbrance rules.  RQ2 was the only game I ever bothered in because there it was at least simple and made sense.  Otherwise I use common sense.