I don't really think it's all that much of a 'deconstruction'.  I can see what you are saying in that it comes across that the plight of humanity is as such because Space Catholics rule the universe, but I don't think that was the intent.

In the background, before the Imperium fell into collapse it still had those elements which are displayed in a positive light, so mankind isn't necessarily enervated due to these exaggerated elements of western civilization.

There is an element of Kafka-esque absurdity to the setting so it has to be viewed through that lens as well.  On one hand the the Inquisitors and such are absurd exaggerations of hidebound, reactionary extremism, and on the other they are also pretty much completely right about everything, because there really are witches and demons and aliens attempting to subvert mankind, and they all are on the precipice of eternal damnation and extinction.  That's already a subversion of a subversion.

Quote from: gleichman;642679Ok, I'm where I can can actually look it up. Only War, page 32. As can everyone else who has a copy of the book as you noted.

And I'm sorry, you're not just wrong. You are being... No. I'm passing on insults. They are pointless. I'm very disappointed in you.

We're done. I won't respond to you on this subject any further.

Again with the strong declarative statements yet absolutely no effort to back them up.

I can do that too.  You're wrong.  

Amazingly unsastifying.

I'm less inclined to pass on the insults myself, but I did expect much better of you, including even a single attempt to actually reason through one of your points in defense, but instead this has turned out to be pointless, like arguing with a child.

Thus, I too am done.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;642682I don't really think it's all that much of a 'deconstruction'.

That would depend in part upon how seriously one takes certain concepts and how seriously you take them being overturned.

For me, the 40K setting as presented is very much a deconstruction.

BTW, the thought occurs that most people will not have a copy of 'Only War' to reference, and thus my disgust in a previous post will not make sense.

Basically page 32 is concerned only with skill resolution, and not combat resolution. Something very clear to any with English as their primary language who takes the time to read that page.

The most important pages that actually speaks to combat modifiers are 253 through 255, these hold the list of conditional combat modifiers and details thereof.

There is not a single Parry modifier listed, and no indication that the GM is suppose to modify parry at any time based upon his subjective judgement of how skilled the attacker is (nor is Dodge modified by such concerns).

Those seeking to defend what cannot be defended will of course turn to Rule Zero at this point, which is nothing but flawed reasoning as the game is being judged as written- not as someone would rewrite it.

In any case, those in doubt are free to verify these facts for themselves but they'll need access to the book.


For all the flamewars and disagreements I've had here, I think this is the first time someone so clearly directly lied (and at more than one point).

p.129 is your guide to the Parry skill.

Yeah, the normal skill modifiers do not apply to Parry,parry has it's own list of mods which are based on awareness of the attack, and intervening cover, not the Weapon Skill of the opponent or whether the opponent is a toddler. Just clarifying.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;642801p.129 is your guide to the Parry skill.

Thanks, I had forgotten they split their list of modifiers between entire sections of the books.

They aren't well organized IMO but then again I should be ones to throw stones perhaps, I'm likely no better.


As an aside, I don't agree with many of the modifiers on page 129, in fact- I'd say that I don't agree with any to them and in play wouldn't use them. They exist as they do I think mostly to make the skill the reverse of Dodge and that isn't valid to my mind.

Quote from: CRKrueger;642802Yeah, the normal skill modifiers do not apply to Parry,parry has it's own list of mods which are based on awareness of the attack, and intervening cover, not the Weapon Skill of the opponent or whether the opponent is a toddler. Just clarifying.

Thanks for chiming in.

It's odd, but that exchange actually upset me for some reason. Perhaps because I was trying to be reasonable and stating what I thought in good faith without insult, only to be lied to (I don't think it was a honest mistake).

Disagreement is fine as is wild differences in taste. Those things are expected. But being lied to... except by Pundit, not so much.