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Before I begin let me apologize in advance for poor grammar, spelling and such. I'm using my phone and it's a wee less convenient.  

Anyway, for those interested, the updated Numenera core book "Discovery" is a streamlined, lovely book. A solid replacement as the original is phased out. Where things really shine is "Destiny" which adds salvaging, crafting and community building/management to the rules. I haven't used them yet, but they're very cool so far as I can tell.

A common and reasonable criticism has been that you only “kill shit and take its stuff” and that it's simply “D&D with sci-fi”. While that can certainly be the tone of the game, the new rules really broaden the scope. Entire campaigns can revolve around finding crafting plans and components and/or building a town's infrastructure and defenses.

Maybe you're part of a town that's hit by a horrifying nano-storm every generation and the protective shield recently broke. Your characters go about discovering rare components to repair the shield but discover the location for the components is protected by a tribe of automatons. Do you fight them or find a peaceful solution? Maybe they're shells for organic beings from another dimension and they suggest a symbiotic relationship with the town? If so, interact with the community rules and add a new group of assets.  If you fight them, use the same rules.

There are three new classes which were made for the scavenging, crafting and community rules (Delve, Wright and Arkus, respectively) although any class can do those things. Glaives are more robust and Jacks are now unique, not just a Glaive/Nano hybrid. You can still use everything from the old books if wanted, which is awesome.

I'm eager to get back into it and if you're a fan of Numenera, these books are great. If you're not, I'm not sure if they'll change your mind, however if you felt all the game was missing is what to do with your discoveries, you may enjoy it now.

I didn't pick this up as I wasn't a fan of the pricing on the Kickstarter.  It sounds like I may need to pick it up, though - what you're describing sounds like I'd love it!

More coffee table art.

Quote from: Tait Ransom;1053274I didn't pick this up as I wasn't a fan of the pricing on the Kickstarter.  It sounds like I may need to pick it up, though - what you're describing sounds like I'd love it!

I didn't back it, just preordered. I'm impressed with the small but solid changes I've seen. As far as "Destiny" goes, I really like what I've read. Feel free to ask whatever you may be curious about.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1053278More coffee table art.

Guess I need a coffee table then! :)

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053280I didn't back it, just preordered. I'm impressed with the small but solid changes I've seen. As far as "Destiny" goes, I really like what I've read. Feel free to ask whatever you may be curious about.

Tell me more about Destiny - what does it cover?  How are the crafting, scavenging, and community rules?

Quote from: Tait Ransom;1053320Tell me more about Destiny - what does it cover?  How are the crafting, scavenging, and community rules?

It has three new Types which are,

The Arkus has a focus on social actions, both with individuals and communities.
The Delve excels in finding and salvaging the esoteric components of the Numenera.
The Wright is skilled in crafting both mundane and Numenera creations.

There are Descriptors and Foci to support the ideas of scavenging, crafting and community building.

There are rules for finding what's called "Iotum", which is the name for the rare and esoteric components needed to craft cyphers, artifacts, vehicles and installations. You also need a plan, for which there are many examples. What's neat is that most of the Iotum can be used as-is to give some weird effect, although this almost always consumes the resource. The rules for recognizing and salvaging Iotum are robust but don't seem clunky and I really like the idea of stockpiling unneeded Iotum to trade for a desperately needed type (there is an economy to support this). I really like the Iotum and can see players enjoying the hunt for rarer items, such as the highly-desired "Cosmic Foam".

The community rules are pretty solid so far, although I admit to not having focused on them as much as the other parts. There are ways to handle how communities interact and each Type (to include the three from Discovery) have ways to affect communities they're a part of. Building certain installations, such as a water purifier or lightning tower, add to attributes that affect a community. I can see players really diving deep into this aspect if they have a connection with a community.

There are example vehicles, installations, more cyphers and artifacts, as well as more creatures. Overall, I'm very happy with the purchase and it came in a beautiful slipcase. Oh, the art is fantastic as usual.

I hope this answered some stuff you were interested in and please ask me more if you want. If you get it, I'm up to share ideas!

Alderaan Crumbs, have you played either N1 or N2? If so, tell us about how it works at the table.

I got rid of my copy of Numenera for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it just wasn't that compelling. I backed The Strange Kickstarter, got rid of that, too. Same reason, I suppose. What makes Numenera 2 worth getting for someone who wasn't that impressed with the prior iterations if the system? I really want to be interested in the game, but I dunno...it seems flat to me.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053524Alderaan Crumbs, have you played either N1 or N2? If so, tell us about how it works at the table.

I have run Numenera, The Strange and Gods of the Fall (a Cypher System setting). I have enjoyed them all. For me, their strengths are many. I'm going to hand over the reigns to the Gentleman Gamer and his wonderful review, as I feel it's a great primer. ;) I hope that's OK.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oxz6tRPIZGs

As to how it works at the table, I love it. I very much enjoy how jaw-droppingly easy it is to use as a GM. I love to improvise and get creative and the system supports this remarkably. Pick a number 1-10 and multiply it by 3 to get the number you need to roll on a d20. There are ways to lower the difficulty that are player-facing. The adjudication is very forgiving and I quickly learned not to sweat it if I set what might’ve been better as a 4 as a 5, for example.

I can create a fully-statted NPC near-instantly, such as the villainous nano “Spinachcat; level 5”. Done. This means our baddie is a target number (TN) 15 to both hit and evade and he causes 5 points of damage per hit. I could get more elaborate a create “Spinachcat; level 5, level 7 with gravity powers, level 2 cooking”. This means that when using gravity powers, the TN is 21 (7 x 3) and at least one modifier must be used to lower it to 18 (6 x 3). Still pretty difficult! When cooking Spinachcat is only a 6 TN to beat. With everything else, be it singing, dancing, intimidation, etc. it’s a 15. If I had to pick one aspect as my favorite, it would be this. The setting is so robust and my imagination runs wild and I can just go with things.

For example, “Lord of the Iron Flies, Spinachcat; level 5” attacks by reaching out toward the Glaive and closing his hand in a tight fist. The Glaive feels immense pressure from everywhere as gravity instantly closes in from all directions. In response, the Jack takes aim and fires his buzzer. The disc screams toward the nano when suddenly it stops a few feet from its target and instantly plummets to the ground. Both of those effects were on-the-fly (which, going with the theme of gravity powers, the nano could do!) and everything is Difficultly 5/TN 15. It’s that simple.

I love GM Intrusions (GMI) as a “trade economy” way of GM fiat. I have found it both fair and fun, and it feeds into the XP economy well. Players have really enjoyed literally paying for different benefits and it keeps the mental load of how far to take things at a minimum.

Quote from: Brad;1053539I got rid of my copy of Numenera for a variety of reasons, but mostly because it just wasn't that compelling. I backed The Strange Kickstarter, got rid of that, too. Same reason, I suppose. What makes Numenera 2 worth getting for someone who wasn't that impressed with the prior iterations if the system? I really want to be interested in the game, but I dunno...it seems flat to me.

Might you elaborate as to what felt flat?

Very cool!

What makes the Numenara setting work so well for you?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053639Very cool!

What makes the Numenara setting work so well for you?

I love sci-fan, to start. That's obviously a big help. :) Beyond that it's the "toolboxiness" of it. I can take the familiar and have a blast twisting it from sci-fi or fantasy to sci-fan. Almost every page has at least one thing to get my Imagination Ball a-rollin' and I very much enjoy saying to myself things like, "They're basically meeting the queen in her castle. What makes this Numenera?". That doesn't mean whacky of goofy (unless that's what you want, which is perfectly viable).

So, the castle might be the only structure not made of local materials, instead being constructed of shimmering blocks of a dark purple substance, clearly of the numenera, upon which an "oily light" moves. If, say, a nano scanned the material, they might discover that the blocks contained the trapped consciousnesses of trans-dimensional beings. Why? Do they even care to find out? The reasons could be nefarious and the energies from the trapped minds are used by queen to see and hear anywhere in her castle, as well as bolstering her energies. Upon meeting the queen they discover a beautiful, female form with only a mask of silver, liquid metal hovering atop her headless body. Flashing forward they PCs learn her body is a drone and her shriveled husk lies in stasis deep in the castle, feeding from the continuously captured and ever-tortured dimensional beings. It’s also learned that her subjects aren’t exactly as free and happy as seemed on the surface... Now, add in the assumption of heroic PCs with access to community-affecting abilities and the means to craft and modify numenera and the revolution is going to be a fantastic campaign!

I just made that one-the-fly and already have a few ideas as to levels and such, the ease of which is astounding given what I mentioned up-thread. That's why I love the setting.

To add, another bit I enjoy is the seamless shifting/blatant mixing you can have of post-apocalyptic, sword & sorcery/sandals, heady “What is the nature of X?”, pulp exploration, cosmic horror...you can do a lot and it’s all seen through a lens of sci-fan. Heck, I’ve taken bits from both Destiny and Warframe as inspiration for upcoming games. Like aspects of WH40K? That setting’s well within the timline of the game, so put Necrons under the sands of Mars as well as a cult who discovered fragments of the Omnissiah’s graces. And remember, when your imagination goes wild and you think, “You know? I think it’d be awesome if this vault had a Skitarii in stasis”, it’s a breeze to stat it out.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053639Very cool!

What makes the Numenara setting work so well for you?

Similar to Alderaan Crumbs, a lot of the appeal to me is the wide openness of it all.  

Despite the pages and pages of setting material that Monte and crew have put to paper, I never fell like it is boxing in my own creativity.  There are still vast areas unknown.  I can drop in whatever I want, whether stuff I made up or something I saw elsewhere and converted, and it takes next to no effort at all.

That said, back to the pages and pages... if I am stuck for inspiration the amount of source material, GM aids (I really like the charts in the Jade Colossus book for creating ruins), etc give me plenty of back up when I need it.

This all also has the added benefit of making it stupid easy to say yes to my players when they have something specific they want to try and go do/find/create/whatever.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053600Might you elaborate as to what felt flat?

Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

Quote from: rgalex;1053663Similar to Alderaan Crumbs, a lot of the appeal to me is the wide openness of it all.  

Despite the pages and pages of setting material that Monte and crew have put to paper, I never fell like it is boxing in my own creativity.  There are still vast areas unknown.  I can drop in whatever I want, whether stuff I made up or something I saw elsewhere and converted, and it takes next to no effort at all.

That said, back to the pages and pages... if I am stuck for inspiration the amount of source material, GM aids (I really like the charts in the Jade Colossus book for creating ruins), etc give me plenty of back up when I need it.

This all also has the added benefit of making it stupid easy to say yes to my players when they have something specific they want to try and go do/find/create/whatever.

Exactly! I see it as a buffet of inspiration to be enjoyed as desired.

Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

I love the original core book and didn’t mind that we were doing monster-slaying quests and dungeon crawls but the monsters were biomechanical horrors and the dungeons were automaton factories. I can see how it could feel generic as it didn’t facilitate much beyond exploring and fighting threats, especially if the sci-fan stuff wasn’t enough to carry you along on its own. I also wanted to see more “science-y” art and did get it in the new books.

I feel (at least from reading) that Numenera: Destiny was a fantastic addition and a thing I didn’t know was needed. If I’m correct it might be a missing piece to your enjoyment. The game still consists of voidglass swords and hardlight armor and tech-knights and nano-wizards (that’s just part of it, after all) visiting far-off lands, plundering inscrutable ruins and fighting bizarre creatures (very standard fantasy, to be sure). However, coupling the sources of things as being fantastic technologies with what to do with the places, people and things you find...that’s what I agree was missing. Will coming across communities and nurturing them (or creating one from scratch), delving into ruins to find tangible rewards and then taking said rewards and actually crafting things be enough to sway you? I don’t know, however I think it might and is worth a peek, if possible.

Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

Problem may be with table, not with game.

Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

This was my impression too.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053674Problem may be with table, not with game.

I don't think it's fair in this case to "blame the table". Unless the look and feel of the setting, the source of the "magic" and monsters and all the "Numenera-ness" in and of itself gets you amped to run with it (as it does with me), the game can feel like standard fantasy, playwise. Some people like rules and such to carry the themes, you know? I know I do (although I did feel the original core book enough to do so) and new book (Numenera: Destiny) does, I feel, just that.

The game feels better when you don't just find an artifact, you find and artifact and dismantle it for radiant synth to trade for cellular apexes to build that void-hopper, so you can get to the Moon. You don't just fight a monster, you're hunting it for its mechanical parts (Monster Hunter: World meets Horizon: Zero Dawn, anyone?) to build a vibronic spear. You don't just help a village by vanquishing the horde of abhumans threatening it, become friends then move on, you help train its people, bolster its defenses and lead them into battle. As I said before, I feel that goes a long way when coupled with the sci-fan setting and feel.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053677I don't think it's fair in this case to "blame the table". Unless the look and feel of the setting, the source of the "magic" and monsters and all the "Numenera-ness" in and of itself gets you amped to run with it (as it does with me), the game can feel like standard fantasy, playwise. Some people like rules and such to carry the themes, you know? I know I do (although I did feel the original core book enough to do so) and new book (Numenera: Destiny) does, I feel, just that.

That's why I say may and not is. :)

I have friends who have absolutely hated a game... then I ran it and they loved it. I'm not some Super GM, it's just that presentation is very important, and presentation at the table is, I believe, actually more important than presentation in the book.

With more information, I'd be happy to say, "It's not the table," but on that one line... it MAY be the table (especially given the qualifier at the poster's sentence was, "in actual play").

QuoteThe game feels better when you don't just find an artifact, you find and artifact and dismantle it for radiant synth to trade for cellular apexes to build that void-hopper, so you can get to the Moon. You don't just fight a monster, you're hunting it for its mechanical parts (Monster Hunter: World meets Horizon: Zero Dawn, anyone?) to build a vibronic spear. You don't just help a village by vanquishing the horde of abhumans threatening it, become friends then move on, you help train its people, bolster its defenses and lead them into battle. As I said before, I feel that goes a long way when coupled with the sci-fan setting and feel.

100% agree.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053674Problem may be with table, not with game.

Always possible, but I've played in two separate Numenera games, both had a similar feel. Hence my getting rid of the book...I am still hopeful, however.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053682That's why I say may and not is. :)

I have friends who have absolutely hated a game... then I ran it and they loved it. I'm not some Super GM, it's just that presentation is very important, and presentation at the table is, I believe, actually more important than presentation in the book.

With more information, I'd be happy to say, "It's not the table," but on that one line... it MAY be the table (especially given the qualifier at the poster's sentence was, "in actual play").

I agree with that. Before you unpacked it my impression was less accommodating, apologies. I have seen far too many similar complaints and apparently so did MCG because that's why they created Numenera: Destiny. Still, you are correct that it could very well be a GM and/or overall group that isn't presenting it well. Hopefully, people will try it again with a solid group and enjoy the additional stuff.

I know that this is more Numenera talk, but since it uses the Cypher system, I think that this applies. I'm using Cypher to run a very Naruto-like ninja game, and it doesn't feel like standard fantasy at all. I can see how the system could be run and feel very Fantasy by the Numbers, but the trappings of the abilities, and the world being presented I think sets the feel. To bring this back to Numenera directly, the castle that Alderaan Crumbs described could be run and feel very different than "castle whose walls are haunted by ghosts of those killed and trapped by a lich", or it could be run and feel exactly the same way that such a setting might feel if run in your favorite flavor of OSR game.

Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;1053706I know that this is more Numenera talk, but since it uses the Cypher system, I think that this applies. I'm using Cypher to run a very Naruto-like ninja game, and it doesn't feel like standard fantasy at all. I can see how the system could be run and feel very Fantasy by the Numbers, but the trappings of the abilities, and the world being presented I think sets the feel. To bring this back to Numenera directly, the castle that Alderaan Crumbs described could be run and feel very different than "castle whose walls are haunted by ghosts of those killed and trapped by a lich", or it could be run and feel exactly the same way that such a setting might feel if run in your favorite flavor of OSR game.

Well said.

More Numenara talk! This is interesting stuff!

What makes the N2 system cool in actual play from the PLAYER side of the table?

How does the minimalist approach to Target Numbers and Foes feel for the players engaged with them?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053726More Numenara talk! This is interesting stuff!

What makes the N2 system cool in actual play from the PLAYER side of the table?

How does the minimalist approach to Target Numbers and Foes feel for the players engaged with them?

This is based on discussions with players, but they have expressed that it works well. They don't really see the sausage being made, as it were. They have simple rules to interact with the system, and can lower the TN (by way of lowering the Difficulty) through skills, assests (equipment, beneficial circumstances and Effort). If they lower it enough, they automatically succeed.

The aforementioned Effort is interesting as it's a risk versus reward mechanic. Want to make sure you hit your opponent, possibly really hard? Sink Might into the roll. However, as you deplete your pools (Might, Speed and Intellect) you're essentially spending hit points. Some people hate this but from what I have seen it's a fun gambit. There are ways to defray the cost by way of Edge which is a cost-reduction value for each ability. Some might be as high as 6 and some might be 0. It's player choice.  

Characters are simple but not too much so. You're not going to be grab-bagging a ton of skills and powers. At first I saw characters as having too few options but after realizing that you can narratively express aspects of a PC in a cool way, it sunk in how fun it is.

For example, a player had a PC who could influence gravity. He wanted a power that made bows shoot further and more accurately. I told him that his Speed Edge could represent minor fluctuations of gravitational control and that spending Effort could mean subtle control of gravity as well. He really liked that.

Another example was a character with the Focus "Hunts with Great Skill". At one point he had the ability to track a target of his choosing and gain an Asset (a single lowering of Difficulty) against it. He had narrative cybernetics (an explanation for his abilities) so we decided he fired nano-dart that allowed him to track the enemy. The Asset he gained in combat was through the dart sending biometric data that allowed his combat processing to predict the enemy’s movement. Speed Effort could be wired reflexes, Might Effort was nano-fiber musculature and Intellect Effort was faster data-sifting. There are many other possibilities. If the same character was instead a genetic hybrid spliced with a Ninth World predator, the trackng might be hunting by pheromones and the Asset could be heightened instincts. And so on...

Both of the above trackers would be mechanically very similar, if not the same. However both feel very different. This level of freedom has made players happy.

Another example is the Focus "Wields Power with Precision" which makes things like nano powers (called "Esoteries") even more robust. It's not as flashy as teleporting by way of a lightning strike (which you can do!), but it's perfect if you like the "arch-mage" theme. A player wanted to be a powerful Nano with a crystalline lattice over his body, just under the skin, and crystal nodes at what were essentially "Chakra" points. He asked if he could take the "Fuses Flesh and Steel" Focus and change it to "Fuses Flesh and Crystal". I didn't mind but when I asked him why he said it was to explain the crystal augmentations.

I kindly suggested that he look at the "Wields Power with Precision" Focus and explain it coming from the crystal matrix implants. As he rose in power the tracery under his skin would shift and the crystals would change. You could tell the relative skill of such a Nano by way of his crystal matrix. He loved it.  

It's also very easy to swap things about, such as taking one aspect of a Focus and giving it to another. Maybe a player loves the Tier 6 (Tiers are essentially levels, maxing at 6) "Child of Night" ability from a shadow-aspected Focus, but their Focus is "Bears a Halo of Fire". There's nothing wrong with letting them swap out a Tier 6 ability for "Child of Night" and make it "Child of Flame". The system is remarkably tough when it comes to fiddling.

I've also noticed players love being physically handed XP (we have cards) for GM Intrusions as well as physically handing it back for little benefits.

Oh! Cyphers! Those are awesome for both sides of the table. They allow for a fresh flexibility in the PC's suite of powers, making things unpredictable. They allow for powers that might otherwise unbalance the game if constantly accessible to instead become momentarily awesome. For example, my very first Numenera PCs had a high-level singularity grenade, which they used against the main villain, hurting him badly. Another was when my wife's PC had a cypher that repaired anything Level 8 or lower. Powerful, indeed. They used it to repair a collapsed, ancient bridge to a cursed city. It was recreated to an incredible standard and became a big deal, narratively. A third, was when my buddy Warboss Squee threw a cypher that blocks a portal (door, window, etc.) from opening. He cleverly prevented enemy reinforcements for a few rounds, which greatly turned the tide of battle in the PC’s favor.

I hope these examples are good!

Alderaan Crumbs: I'm intrigued by the Numera setting but I'm not a fan of Cypher mechanics. Do the books contain enough informationa and description to make them worth if you're planning on conversion or are they mostly done up for Cypher and pretty wedded to that rule set?

Quote from: CarlD.;1053734Alderaan Crumbs: I'm intrigued by the Numera setting but I'm not a fan of Cypher mechanics. Do the books contain enough informationa and description to make them worth if you're planning on conversion or are they mostly done up for Cypher and pretty wedded to that rule set?

Briefly looking at my Numenera books I'd say a good 80% of most of the books (with the exception of the core rules books/player's guides) are setting material with little Cypher rules attached.

For example, the Ninth World Guide Book is 254 pages.  Roughly 210 of those pages are filled with setting material and maybe a sidebar here and there for rules.  About 10 pages are specifically on character options within the rules.  Thirty pages cover creatures.  However, since Cypher is pretty light on rules, the creature entries are 1/4 page rules, 1/4 page abilities and 1/2 page that describes the creature, typical interactions with it, a suggestion on how to use it in your game and what sort of 'loot' you can get from it.

Something like Tides of Numenera is similar.  A 160 page book with roughly 10 pages of character options and some other miscellaneous rules scattered throughout but the rest is just setting info.

The Jade Colossus is more rules heavy, but that's because it is partly a campaign guide.  It does have some good setting info for that specific location if that's what you want out of it though and would be easy to convert to another system.  That's about half the book.  The other half is a wonderful set of rules and charts for generating ruins for the PCs to explore.  I really like rolling on random charts so those are a blast to have on hand when called for and could be used with nearly any rules (sort of like the Vornheim city generator charts).

Quote from: rgalex;1053777Briefly looking at my Numenera books I'd say a good 80% of most of the books (with the exception of the core rules books/player's guides) are setting material with little Cypher rules attached.

For example, the Ninth World Guide Book is 254 pages.  Roughly 180 of those pages are filled with setting material and maybe a sidebar here and there for rules.  About 10 pages are specifically on character options within the rules.  Thirty pages cover creatures.  However, since Cypher is pretty light on rules, the creature entries are 1/4 page rules, 1/4 page abilities and 1/2 page that describes the creature, typical interactions with it, a suggestion on how to use it in your game and what sort of 'loot' you can get from it.

Something like Tides of Numenera is similar.  A 160 page book with roughly 10 pages of character options and some other miscellaneous rules scattered throughout but the rest is just setting info.

The Jade Colossus is more rules heavy, but that's because it is partly a campaign guide.  It does have some good setting info for that specific location if that's what you want out of it though and would be easy to convert to another system.  That's about half the book.  The other half is a wonderful set of rules and charts for generating ruins for the PCs to explore.  I really like rolling on random charts so those are a blast to have on hand when called for and could be used with nearly any rules (sort of like the Vornheim city generator charts).

CarlD, this is my opinion as well. Well presented, rgalex, thank you. I would like to add that while cyphers themselves are intrinsically tied to the system, they're an important setting conceit as well. I'm sure you could easily apply them to other games, though.

CarlD, I'm curious as to whst about Cypher doesn't grab you as well as what your go-to system(s) is(are).

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1053278More coffee table art.

I have to say I have zero interest in playing this game, but the art I've seen of it is pretty.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053730I hope these examples are good!

They are excellent thank you!!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054170I have to say I have zero interest in playing this game, but the art I've seen of it is pretty.

That it is, sir.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1054176They are excellent thank you!!

Please feel free to ask anything else you might be interested in, be it about Numenera, The Strange (which I feel doesn't get anywhere near the love it deserves) or Cypher in general (the setting books they made are damn cool, and we had a blast with Gods of the Fall). I'm also adding Invisible Sun to the list because even though it's not Cypher, it has its DNA. It's a much more robust and intricate "version" of it in many aspects. I'm REALLY enjoying what I've read so far.

Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

So it doesn't really compare well to the "really far in the future fantasy" genre of books?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054342So it doesn't really compare well to the "really far in the future fantasy" genre of books?

That's always been a debate, however even loving the game as I do, I agree that "generic fantasy" is a feel that could happen, depending on the presentation. That's not necessarily even a bad thing, to be honest. It's always been presented ae sci-fan, not sci-fi. Where the game needed more meat was the aspects I detailed above; salvaging, crafting and community. It was great to explore but having rules for what to do with the things encountered is fantastic. Others may not like the game, before or after the new material, but it's hard to deny that MCG didn't give a lot more options to enjoy.

Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

I agree that's possible.  Numenera has a slightly higher than normal level of buy-in for the setting. A GM could easily default to making it Just Another Fantasy Setting.  Hell, the starting point in the 1st edition core book, the Steadfast, had that feel to it.

However, once you do look past that it becomes clear there is much more possible and that generic fantasy feel fades pretty fast.  While not necessary, the added setting material in the Ninth World Guidebook and the 3 Into The "X" books really help break it out of that mold.

Tell us more about the crafting rules. I'm interested in hearing how much the players use them in actual play. And how is the "bigger, better gun" balanced?

My biggest problem with all the Numenera setting material was that it felt like a whole bunch of cool ideas that never went anywhere and weren't developed.

- To a degree it was inspiring - but also frustrating, because once I've grokked the basic setting I can come up with lots of cool fragmentary ideas on my own - if I'm going to buy a book I want to see some of those ideas developed.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1053278More coffee table art.

Nothing wrong with that.

Is it still only players roll?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1054871Tell us more about the crafting rules. I'm interested in hearing how much the players use them in actual play. And how is the "bigger, better gun" balanced?

We haven't played that stuff yet, but I am excited to see that myself. So you know, weapons are very streamlined. Light weapons do 2 damage, Medium do 4 and Heavy do 6. Effort can raise this by 3, and rolling 17-20 can as well, by 1,2,3 and 4, respectively. Where the crafting rules will meet this, I haven't seen in play. However, I will do some digging regardless.

Quote from: TJS;1054879My biggest problem with all the Numenera setting material was that it felt like a whole bunch of cool ideas that never went anywhere and weren't developed.

- To a degree it was inspiring - but also frustrating, because once I've grokked the basic setting I can come up with lots of cool fragmentary ideas on my own - if I'm going to buy a book I want to see some of those ideas developed.

I believe much of that was by design both to not hard-bake the given setting as well leaving things open for tables to do thier own things. Much of it should be seen as a toolbox to craft your ideas with. Is that what you meant? I’m interested in exploring your point of view more, if wanted.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1054885Nothing wrong with that.

Is it still only players roll?

Yes, with the exception of using certain tables the players roll.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1054896I believe much of that was by design both to not hard-bake the given setting as well leaving things open for tables to do thier own things. Much of it should be seen as a toolbox to craft your ideas with. Is that what you meant? I'm interested in exploring your point of view more, if wanted.

I don't mind the toolkit.  But I just felt that I was mostly given the wrong tools.  For example, the core book has a huge amount of detail of countries and the like with hints at different things that are interesting, but left me with all the work necessary to make it gameable.  

I would have preferred, for example, a lot less geography and broad strokes, and a bit of a deep dive into some of the institutions such as the Church of Truth.  An awful lot of the setting detail is things I could come up with very quickly - in fact it's actually easier to come up with my own kingdoms, because if they're mine from conception then developing them is easier than trying to build upon someone else's vague outline.  

I find the setting book for the computer game probably the most useful - because the locations were more considerably developed - probably because the development work was done for the computer game.

What's the relationship between the RPG and the computer game? AKA, how much do the play experiences mirror each other?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1053278More coffee table art.

Yeah, that's mostly what this ended up being for me. The art is very nice, the game world is fascinating, sometimes (there's so much here that it'd be quite an achievement to have nothing useful or interesting). Ultimately the rules just don't do it for me, though that could easily be just me.