Quote from: Brad;1053667Numenera is supposed to be a sci-fi setting a billion years in the future, but comes off as sort of generic fantasy in actual play.

This was my impression too.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053674Problem may be with table, not with game.

I don't think it's fair in this case to "blame the table". Unless the look and feel of the setting, the source of the "magic" and monsters and all the "Numenera-ness" in and of itself gets you amped to run with it (as it does with me), the game can feel like standard fantasy, playwise. Some people like rules and such to carry the themes, you know? I know I do (although I did feel the original core book enough to do so) and new book (Numenera: Destiny) does, I feel, just that.

The game feels better when you don't just find an artifact, you find and artifact and dismantle it for radiant synth to trade for cellular apexes to build that void-hopper, so you can get to the Moon. You don't just fight a monster, you're hunting it for its mechanical parts (Monster Hunter: World meets Horizon: Zero Dawn, anyone?) to build a vibronic spear. You don't just help a village by vanquishing the horde of abhumans threatening it, become friends then move on, you help train its people, bolster its defenses and lead them into battle. As I said before, I feel that goes a long way when coupled with the sci-fan setting and feel.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053677I don't think it's fair in this case to "blame the table". Unless the look and feel of the setting, the source of the "magic" and monsters and all the "Numenera-ness" in and of itself gets you amped to run with it (as it does with me), the game can feel like standard fantasy, playwise. Some people like rules and such to carry the themes, you know? I know I do (although I did feel the original core book enough to do so) and new book (Numenera: Destiny) does, I feel, just that.

That's why I say may and not is.

I have friends who have absolutely hated a game... then I ran it and they loved it. I'm not some Super GM, it's just that presentation is very important, and presentation at the table is, I believe, actually more important than presentation in the book.

With more information, I'd be happy to say, "It's not the table," but on that one line... it MAY be the table (especially given the qualifier at the poster's sentence was, "in actual play").

QuoteThe game feels better when you don't just find an artifact, you find and artifact and dismantle it for radiant synth to trade for cellular apexes to build that void-hopper, so you can get to the Moon. You don't just fight a monster, you're hunting it for its mechanical parts (Monster Hunter: World meets Horizon: Zero Dawn, anyone?) to build a vibronic spear. You don't just help a village by vanquishing the horde of abhumans threatening it, become friends then move on, you help train its people, bolster its defenses and lead them into battle. As I said before, I feel that goes a long way when coupled with the sci-fan setting and feel.

100% agree.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053674Problem may be with table, not with game.

Always possible, but I've played in two separate Numenera games, both had a similar feel. Hence my getting rid of the book...I am still hopeful, however.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1053682That's why I say may and not is.

I have friends who have absolutely hated a game... then I ran it and they loved it. I'm not some Super GM, it's just that presentation is very important, and presentation at the table is, I believe, actually more important than presentation in the book.

With more information, I'd be happy to say, "It's not the table," but on that one line... it MAY be the table (especially given the qualifier at the poster's sentence was, "in actual play").

I agree with that. Before you unpacked it my impression was less accommodating, apologies. I have seen far too many similar complaints and apparently so did MCG because that's why they created Numenera: Destiny. Still, you are correct that it could very well be a GM and/or overall group that isn't presenting it well. Hopefully, people will try it again with a solid group and enjoy the additional stuff.

I know that this is more Numenera talk, but since it uses the Cypher system, I think that this applies. I'm using Cypher to run a very Naruto-like ninja game, and it doesn't feel like standard fantasy at all. I can see how the system could be run and feel very Fantasy by the Numbers, but the trappings of the abilities, and the world being presented I think sets the feel. To bring this back to Numenera directly, the castle that Alderaan Crumbs described could be run and feel very different than "castle whose walls are haunted by ghosts of those killed and trapped by a lich", or it could be run and feel exactly the same way that such a setting might feel if run in your favorite flavor of OSR game.

Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;1053706I know that this is more Numenera talk, but since it uses the Cypher system, I think that this applies. I'm using Cypher to run a very Naruto-like ninja game, and it doesn't feel like standard fantasy at all. I can see how the system could be run and feel very Fantasy by the Numbers, but the trappings of the abilities, and the world being presented I think sets the feel. To bring this back to Numenera directly, the castle that Alderaan Crumbs described could be run and feel very different than "castle whose walls are haunted by ghosts of those killed and trapped by a lich", or it could be run and feel exactly the same way that such a setting might feel if run in your favorite flavor of OSR game.

Well said.

More Numenara talk! This is interesting stuff!

What makes the N2 system cool in actual play from the PLAYER side of the table?

How does the minimalist approach to Target Numbers and Foes feel for the players engaged with them?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053726More Numenara talk! This is interesting stuff!

What makes the N2 system cool in actual play from the PLAYER side of the table?

How does the minimalist approach to Target Numbers and Foes feel for the players engaged with them?

This is based on discussions with players, but they have expressed that it works well. They don't really see the sausage being made, as it were. They have simple rules to interact with the system, and can lower the TN (by way of lowering the Difficulty) through skills, assests (equipment, beneficial circumstances and Effort). If they lower it enough, they automatically succeed.

The aforementioned Effort is interesting as it's a risk versus reward mechanic. Want to make sure you hit your opponent, possibly really hard? Sink Might into the roll. However, as you deplete your pools (Might, Speed and Intellect) you're essentially spending hit points. Some people hate this but from what I have seen it's a fun gambit. There are ways to defray the cost by way of Edge which is a cost-reduction value for each ability. Some might be as high as 6 and some might be 0. It's player choice.  

Characters are simple but not too much so. You're not going to be grab-bagging a ton of skills and powers. At first I saw characters as having too few options but after realizing that you can narratively express aspects of a PC in a cool way, it sunk in how fun it is.

For example, a player had a PC who could influence gravity. He wanted a power that made bows shoot further and more accurately. I told him that his Speed Edge could represent minor fluctuations of gravitational control and that spending Effort could mean subtle control of gravity as well. He really liked that.

Another example was a character with the Focus "Hunts with Great Skill". At one point he had the ability to track a target of his choosing and gain an Asset (a single lowering of Difficulty) against it. He had narrative cybernetics (an explanation for his abilities) so we decided he fired nano-dart that allowed him to track the enemy. The Asset he gained in combat was through the dart sending biometric data that allowed his combat processing to predict the enemy’s movement. Speed Effort could be wired reflexes, Might Effort was nano-fiber musculature and Intellect Effort was faster data-sifting. There are many other possibilities. If the same character was instead a genetic hybrid spliced with a Ninth World predator, the trackng might be hunting by pheromones and the Asset could be heightened instincts. And so on...

Both of the above trackers would be mechanically very similar, if not the same. However both feel very different. This level of freedom has made players happy.

Another example is the Focus "Wields Power with Precision" which makes things like nano powers (called "Esoteries") even more robust. It's not as flashy as teleporting by way of a lightning strike (which you can do!), but it's perfect if you like the "arch-mage" theme. A player wanted to be a powerful Nano with a crystalline lattice over his body, just under the skin, and crystal nodes at what were essentially "Chakra" points. He asked if he could take the "Fuses Flesh and Steel" Focus and change it to "Fuses Flesh and Crystal". I didn't mind but when I asked him why he said it was to explain the crystal augmentations.

I kindly suggested that he look at the "Wields Power with Precision" Focus and explain it coming from the crystal matrix implants. As he rose in power the tracery under his skin would shift and the crystals would change. You could tell the relative skill of such a Nano by way of his crystal matrix. He loved it.  

It's also very easy to swap things about, such as taking one aspect of a Focus and giving it to another. Maybe a player loves the Tier 6 (Tiers are essentially levels, maxing at 6) "Child of Night" ability from a shadow-aspected Focus, but their Focus is "Bears a Halo of Fire". There's nothing wrong with letting them swap out a Tier 6 ability for "Child of Night" and make it "Child of Flame". The system is remarkably tough when it comes to fiddling.

I've also noticed players love being physically handed XP (we have cards) for GM Intrusions as well as physically handing it back for little benefits.

Oh! Cyphers! Those are awesome for both sides of the table. They allow for a fresh flexibility in the PC's suite of powers, making things unpredictable. They allow for powers that might otherwise unbalance the game if constantly accessible to instead become momentarily awesome. For example, my very first Numenera PCs had a high-level singularity grenade, which they used against the main villain, hurting him badly. Another was when my wife's PC had a cypher that repaired anything Level 8 or lower. Powerful, indeed. They used it to repair a collapsed, ancient bridge to a cursed city. It was recreated to an incredible standard and became a big deal, narratively. A third, was when my buddy Warboss Squee threw a cypher that blocks a portal (door, window, etc.) from opening. He cleverly prevented enemy reinforcements for a few rounds, which greatly turned the tide of battle in the PC’s favor.

I hope these examples are good!

Alderaan Crumbs: I'm intrigued by the Numera setting but I'm not a fan of Cypher mechanics. Do the books contain enough informationa and description to make them worth if you're planning on conversion or are they mostly done up for Cypher and pretty wedded to that rule set?

Quote from: CarlD.;1053734Alderaan Crumbs: I'm intrigued by the Numera setting but I'm not a fan of Cypher mechanics. Do the books contain enough informationa and description to make them worth if you're planning on conversion or are they mostly done up for Cypher and pretty wedded to that rule set?

Briefly looking at my Numenera books I'd say a good 80% of most of the books (with the exception of the core rules books/player's guides) are setting material with little Cypher rules attached.

For example, the Ninth World Guide Book is 254 pages.  Roughly 210 of those pages are filled with setting material and maybe a sidebar here and there for rules.  About 10 pages are specifically on character options within the rules.  Thirty pages cover creatures.  However, since Cypher is pretty light on rules, the creature entries are 1/4 page rules, 1/4 page abilities and 1/2 page that describes the creature, typical interactions with it, a suggestion on how to use it in your game and what sort of 'loot' you can get from it.

Something like Tides of Numenera is similar.  A 160 page book with roughly 10 pages of character options and some other miscellaneous rules scattered throughout but the rest is just setting info.

The Jade Colossus is more rules heavy, but that's because it is partly a campaign guide.  It does have some good setting info for that specific location if that's what you want out of it though and would be easy to convert to another system.  That's about half the book.  The other half is a wonderful set of rules and charts for generating ruins for the PCs to explore.  I really like rolling on random charts so those are a blast to have on hand when called for and could be used with nearly any rules (sort of like the Vornheim city generator charts).

Quote from: rgalex;1053777Briefly looking at my Numenera books I'd say a good 80% of most of the books (with the exception of the core rules books/player's guides) are setting material with little Cypher rules attached.

For example, the Ninth World Guide Book is 254 pages.  Roughly 180 of those pages are filled with setting material and maybe a sidebar here and there for rules.  About 10 pages are specifically on character options within the rules.  Thirty pages cover creatures.  However, since Cypher is pretty light on rules, the creature entries are 1/4 page rules, 1/4 page abilities and 1/2 page that describes the creature, typical interactions with it, a suggestion on how to use it in your game and what sort of 'loot' you can get from it.

Something like Tides of Numenera is similar.  A 160 page book with roughly 10 pages of character options and some other miscellaneous rules scattered throughout but the rest is just setting info.

The Jade Colossus is more rules heavy, but that's because it is partly a campaign guide.  It does have some good setting info for that specific location if that's what you want out of it though and would be easy to convert to another system.  That's about half the book.  The other half is a wonderful set of rules and charts for generating ruins for the PCs to explore.  I really like rolling on random charts so those are a blast to have on hand when called for and could be used with nearly any rules (sort of like the Vornheim city generator charts).

CarlD, this is my opinion as well. Well presented, rgalex, thank you. I would like to add that while cyphers themselves are intrinsically tied to the system, they're an important setting conceit as well. I'm sure you could easily apply them to other games, though.

CarlD, I'm curious as to whst about Cypher doesn't grab you as well as what your go-to system(s) is(are).

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1053278More coffee table art.

I have to say I have zero interest in playing this game, but the art I've seen of it is pretty.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1053730I hope these examples are good!

They are excellent thank you!!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054170I have to say I have zero interest in playing this game, but the art I've seen of it is pretty.

That it is, sir.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1054176They are excellent thank you!!

Please feel free to ask anything else you might be interested in, be it about Numenera, The Strange (which I feel doesn't get anywhere near the love it deserves) or Cypher in general (the setting books they made are damn cool, and we had a blast with Gods of the Fall). I'm also adding Invisible Sun to the list because even though it's not Cypher, it has its DNA. It's a much more robust and intricate "version" of it in many aspects. I'm REALLY enjoying what I've read so far.