Different in Zwieldhander.  First you pick either human, or other race.  If other race you roll to see what other race you are.  Then you roll attributes.  Then you roll alignments.  Then you roll profession which there is about a hundred of them to start with.

Quote from: Anselyn;947544This wasn't anti-semitic; it was more anti-American. My perception was that this is considered normal in the US but is much rarer in Europe - and so the art defaulted to foreskin-free (and actually the artist may be European so I'm off target anyway).  

A quick Google suggests the circumcision rate is probably falling in the US - and a bit higher than I thought in the UK [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision].   It does seem a culturally normalised unnecessity though.

Male circumcision does have a downside but the most common complaint I've heard is just as you say: its an unnecessary* medical procedure that permanently alters the subject's body that's inflicted on them without their consent often not even for spiritual reasons but out of sense of tradition. Its somewhat analogous to the surgeries performs on intersex individuals at birth to normalize their sexual characteristics in that sense. Some parents are even unaware they have a choice to refuse the procedure.  Its a reasonable assumption that a circumcised penis is considered the norm in the US at the current time so it would understandable for a US artist to default to one unless specifically told not too.

Quote from: san dee jota;947534In some cases, attacks on male circumcision have been perceived as being anti-Semitic in origin.

And some times, they're right.

And sometimes, they're rather wrong. No idea what that specific case is, but I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt:).

Quote from: Anselyn;947544This wasn't anti-semitic; it was more anti-American. My perception was that this is considered normal in the US but is much rarer in Europe - and so the art defaulted to foreskin-free (and actually the artist may be European so I'm off target anyway).  

A quick Google suggests the circumcision rate is probably falling in the US - and a bit higher than I thought in the UK [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision].   It does seem a culturally normalised unnecessity though.

To me, it's not culturally mandated. I'm Christian, and my doctor simply advised me to do it for health reasons rather late in life.
This puts me in the rare position to know the differences, and I find it a rather useful procedure;).

Now, a minotaur should probably be circumcised only if there was a reason, like him having been a human once.

Quote from: AsenRG;947628And sometimes, they're rather wrong. No idea what that specific case is, but I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt:).

There's a past history of it that's enough to spook some Jewish groups.

Here's a recent article talking about the issue in (as seen by an American Jew in Germany, granted).

And here's some analysis regarding the relation between "intactivism" and anti-Semitism in San Fran's 2011 anti-circumcision law.  

Short version: not all people opposing circumcision hate Judaism and the Jews... but there are those who do.

Quote from: san dee jota;947656And here's some analysis regarding the relation between "intactivism" and anti-Semitism in San Fran's 2011 anti-circumcision law.  

I was all set to mock this, but it does actually look like the motivation may be anti-Semitic there* (unless the article is lying, always a possibility). I would think the main targets of an anti-circumcision campaign should be the secular hospitals and their procedure, which is a lot more brutal (if technically less dangerous) than the Jewish or Muslim religious practice. (Funny that globally the main three groups who circumcise are Muslims, Jews, and Americans).

*Albeit this 'campaign' looks like it may just be one kooky anti-semite the ADL are making use of.

Quote from: S'mon;947657I was all set to mock this, but it does actually look like the motivation may be anti-Semitic there*

Well, like I keep saying, some times it really -isn't- about the Jews and some times it really -is-.

Yeah, but why did you have to post that? I didn't express doubt that the are anti-Semites who are against circumcision, I've seen such people.
I said that there are enough people who are only one of those things, as you basically confirmed, that we can't draw conclusions about someone's moral character even if you think their assessment of male circumcision is wrong.

What minotarus in Zweihanderz: a species, one off mutations, summoned beasts or the like?

After reading this entire thread (man, there are a lot of tangents!), nudity, different genders and/or races in a game work fine if they fit in with the game world. On the other hand, inserting any and/or all of them to earn social acceptance points seems very silly to me.

Based on my reading of the OP's intent, I'd say this is more about social acceptance points than about any of the things fitting into the world. The backtracking on some of the art implies it was less about adding detail to a world but pleasing out-of-game interest groups.

If I play a game set in 10th century Japan (or a facsimile) I wouldn't, nor would I expect any one else, complain about the lack of Caucasian races to play. They simply don't fit the world.

That's my 2 cents.

Quote from: Nexus;947506I wouldn't call the Lust demon "transgender". Its not someone who identifies with a sex/gender other than their biological one. Its an infernal monster with feminine and masculine human sexual characteristics (you can't tell from the image if it has full female genitals as well). I'd imagine given the nature of the setting the representations of transgendered characters would be cross dressers unless magic were involved. I mean, yes it is creepy but its a servant of a Demon Lord of Lust. I don't think leather fetishism only appeared in the modern era. I doubt many of them did that aren't tied to modern developments.

You're correct. I intended to put "transgender" in scare quotes. I was responding to CRKrueger's dismissal of the sexism, and when that happens I tend to overthink and overedit my posts, and sometimes omit things. Here's the point:

1. The carnal demon is wearing gear associated with leather culture, a real world, modern subculture. Heavily fetishized BDSM garb in specfic, which has a widespread negative interpretation.

2. The carnal demon is also associated with transgenderism. A male body, but with silicone tits and a dick and a ridiculously sexualized but effeminate pose. Which is another set of negative stereotypes, rather than anything real.

Negative depictions by themselves are fine. If you're only allowed to depict certain groups positively, they lose some of their humanity. But this is the only example in the KS update, so we have zero positive examples. Sexualized depictions are also fine, for similar reasons. But this isn't just sexualized, it's evoking negative stereotypes. Which, since it's a lust demon, could be appropriate. But the stereotypes are modern, instead of being culturally- or context- appropriate. There's zero thought involved in rethinking how such a creature might appear in the setting. Instead, it's pandering to the readers' worst prejudices and expectations by invoking very specific (modern, Western) cultural cues. It's literally designed to make a modern viewer go "eww traps are creepy freaks". And that's the problem.

This is more detail than I was interested in going in to, but I thought it was just so obvious.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;947508That monster is not transgender. Transgender does not equal a female looking demon with a penis. To say it is: Is spreading ignorance, bigotry, and the freakshow view toward people who are transgender.

Fuck you, that was the point.

Quote from: Pat;9476871. The carnal demon is wearing gear associated with leather culture, a real world, modern subculture. Heavily fetishized BDSM garb in specfic, which has a widespread negative interpretation.

Leather and BSDM gear might have a 'negative interpretation' among prudish vanilla types, but generally I see it presented as 'naughty fun'.

Quote2. The carnal demon is also associated with transgenderism.

By who? The same types who think BSDM is 'negative'? It's just a take on a Warhammer Daemonette... and has nada to do with real world issues.

OP this is what happens when you virtue signal.  You get people reading too deep into your knock off daemonettes when they are just knock off daemonettes.  Besides most of the people who would appreciate the signalling DON'T EVEN PLAY RPGS!

All you did was make yourself look stupid.  You ended up getting people into a twist with a knock off daemonette.  Plus Negroids?  Are you fucking kidding me?  Are you trying to not sell books?

Quote from: Simlasa;947693By who? The same types who think BSDM is 'negative'? It's just a take on a Warhammer Daemonette... and has nada to do with real world issues.

Exactly what I said before.  It is a knock off daemonette.  See this is the danger of what happens when you virtue signal.  You just get all these progressive/regressive/sjw types constantly judging your product and bitching about any "flaw" they find.  The OP basically shot himself in the foot because he does not have a PC product.

Quote from: Snowman0147;947697Exactly what I said before.  It is a knock off daemonette.  See this is the danger of what happens when you virtue signal.  You just get all these progressive/regressive/sjw types constantly judging your product and bitching about any "flaw" they find.  The OP basically shot himself in the foot because he does not have a PC product.

I think there have been some criticisms here that have little to do with the sjw set. I can recall at least one where the poster commented as a concerned parent. Also feel like this is the least sjw forum of this type around. If anything, we're littered with "fascists." :-)

That said, I think your observation that the framing of the thread question invites the wrong types of criticism is spot on. Maybe just a simpler question is in order? We get the disclaimer regarding the nature of of the artwork, but we get asked the wider question of inclusivity. Maybe we should just have been asked what we thought of the artwork in general. Then maybe some of the answers might be more straightfoward and less politicized. I mean, there was a lot of commentary revolving around "what do you think of the naughty bits?" And then there's the commentary that goes beyond the page and into the tire fire that is world view, which I'm not sure is helpful to the OP, but is nevertheless elicited by the question posed.

QuoteNegroids

A liberal uses "negroids" to virtue signal and be inclusive. What a buffoon! You can't make it up. LoL!