So, today we made a statement on race and gender inclusivity, along with nudity and sexuality in my book ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/grimandperilous/zweihander-grim-and-perilous-rpg/posts/1813848

QuoteHey gang,

Our art director Dejan is about to wrap up the remaining four pieces of art this week. In the meanwhile, I wanted to share our philosophical vision to art direction in ZWEIHÄNDER.

Our personal values strongly guided the writing process and art direction. On the outset of the project, Dejan, Tanner and I made the joint decision to include representation of all real-world races and genders throughout the book. In addition, these races are expressed in the art using female and male genders. This includes instances of transgendered and intersex characters and creatures.

We also use nudity and sexuality throughout the book. In most cases, nudity is represented as the natural state of creatures, and at other times, we use it in tandem with sexuality. We hope you won't be dissuaded from enjoying ZWEIHÄNDER because of this.

Now... with that out of the way, I wanted to give you a taste of some of the new illustrations from our bestiary. Enjoy, and let us know what you think in the comments section!

I figured I'd nip this one in the bud before fulfillment, so nobody is surprised. Most opinions in our comments section and on Facebook have been positive and supportive, whereas others have been damning. We've already received some requests for refunds, which I fully intend to refund at 100%.

Lovely bits; bait and tackle; cash and prizes - however you want to categorize them, the full monty is on display in our artwork. Sometimes, it's done tastefully. Other times, it's lurid and purposefully sexualized. My initial takeaway from this is that violence = okay, but when it comes to penises, vulvas and/or intersex = offensive.

What are your thoughts on nudity and inclusivity in RPGs?


EDIT - UPDATE
Glad to hear everyone's opinions on it. We've always aimed for contextual appropriateness in the artwork. For fans of Warhammer, the context is readily apparent. For others that are unfamiliar with the work, you have to read into the creature's descriptions to get a good feel for why a handful of creatures have their naughty bits exposed.

For clarification, however, the only nudity we have up to this point is restricted to the bestiary.

While I can concede to the 'inappropriateness' of sexualized nudity in the book for those who wish to expose their little ones to ZWEIHÄNDER, I personally believe that it's no different than having a discussion with them about emulated violence in a game that's intended to be violent. Frankly, ZWEIHÄNDER - and Warhammer in general - is and has always been for mature audiences.

EDIT 2 - AMA Questions
Today during our AMA, I made a statement about why tits and dicks, and a follow-up to inclusivity:

https://youtu.be/9kkGc0FB_NA?t=5070

Context is key.  For example, the Carnal Demon has female tits and a cock, decked out with BDSM leathers - nothing wrong with that, it's a lust demon for god's sake.
Minotaur is packing some heat. - nothing wrong with that.
Apparition - for such a skeletal, ghostly image, those are some pretty good tits.  Maybe they should be wrinkled/deflated whatever. Seems a little odd.
Nephilim - I forget the details on that monster, but it appears as a wild, naked man, so nothing wrong with Mr. Johnson.

Not everything has to be PG-13.  It's completely fine to publish a Rated-R RPG, especially if the sex, T&A, gore, etc make sense.

If someone is going to cancel because a Carnal Demon has tits, or a Mino is packin', forget 'em.  Not your audience.  It's Warhammer goddamnit!

In terms of RPGs in general, it underwhelms me.  It serves little to no purpose, and just seems like someone trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.  I mean, we've had internet porn for decades now, so it's to be expected if everyone is jaded with nudity.  

Of course, I hold Degenesis (2ed) up as the standard to -match-, and even there it's a bit gratuitous ("why sure the post-apocalyptic bandit lady has a perfect body with naturally perky C-cup breasts, despite a life of never wearing a bra" is offset by "these people are naked because the alien spores they carry are driving them insane and indifferent to the damages done to their bodies").  I'm cool with nudity if it pulls me into the world and makes sense within the context of said world.

Regarding Zwei: the lust demon and taurus makes sense, but bores me.  The ghost has sexy boobs why?  I -like- the Nephilim (here's a giant who genuinely doesn't give a shit about human society), but I honestly thought it was just a random poverty stricken madman peasant at first glance.

Quote from: san dee jota;947253Regarding Zwei: the lust demon and taurus makes sense, but bores me.

That's kind of an odd statement.  Bores how?  If the carnal demon had the package put away and a set of pasties would it then not "bore" you?  I can see being jaded not really caring one way or another, but "not sexually excited by drawn nudity" isn't the same as "bored".

Quote from: CRKrueger;947256That's kind of an odd statement.  Bores how?  If the carnal demon had the package put away and a set of pasties would it then not "bore" you?  I can see being jaded not really caring one way or another, but "not sexually excited by drawn nudity" isn't the same as "bored".

Fair enough.  Replace "bores" (which -does- sound like an active thing on my part) with "doesn't tell me anything about anything, so why put it there?  No, that's a rhetorical question, I've already left."  

What does the nudity add to the presentation of the game? Does it have a purpose other than just existing for shock value?

If you don't have a compelling reason for it, Then you really don't need it.

I'm tired of everyone tripping over themselves to be 'family friendly', PG-13, and PC... so any R or X-Rated content that isn't there merely to titillate but makes sense in the setting gets a thumbs up from me.

Like, I like the naked vampire women in Jean Rollin's early movies... not as fap material but because their nudity emphasises how alien/strange they are.
GW's earlier nude Daemonettes were scarier for similar reasons... The Lost And The Damned books were full of disturbing imagery and owe their coveted status to that powerful vision and not pulling punches on the presentation.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;947260What does the nudity add to the presentation of the game? Does it have a purpose other than just existing for shock value?

If you don't have a compelling reason for it, Then you really don't need it.

Isn't "Accurate depiction of the subject matter" always a good enough reason?
Why must it be "compelling?"

Eh. I'm just fine with seeing tits and cocks all over the place, I guess. I'm not too worried about the artistic statement behind inclusion, and frankly I AM a bit tired of everyone trying to decide for me if I can, or cannot be trusted to see tig ol' bitties and whatnot.

I'm a bit... headscratching... over the Transgender and Intersex inclusion, unless you're referring to things like the lust demon, as the rate of occurrence is far far lower than the current mania for talking about transgender and intersex would have you believe, at least in any world remotely like the real one.  Its a bit like that weird couple of paragraphs in the 5e D&D book, it doesn't really add anything meaningful in and of itself, it's just a bit of virtue signalling and pandering that is more annoyance than anything else.

Dunno why I'm even commenting, since I didn't even know you were flogging a game until I read the first post. For all I know this is the RPG based on Corruption of Champions/deviant art, and I'm way off base, in which case, rock on and let your freak flag fly high and proud.

Otherwise it feels like that SNL skit about Cheetos.

As a political statement I find "look how inclusive we are, too" to be pretty boring in any media format but especially in fantasy RPG art. I'd at least find some humor in it if you told us your barbarians only wore faux fur as a political statement.

As far as the actual linked art goes... I must be getting old, I don't find any of it objectionable or inspiring. And going to look at it through the lens of "gender inclusion" didn't help, I mean I couldn't tell if the Jabberwok was included as an example of "Inter-sex" or "Transgendered" or what... I honestly have no expectation for Jaberwok genitals so didn't know if I was supposed to be shocked by lack of penis/ vulva or both.

I'm on record as not being offended by the inclusion of boobs or penises in the other threads we have had regarding this topic, and I still am not but I have to ask.

Why add a penis to the minotaur? What are we supposed to do with that extra bit of information? I came up with a few ideas:
1) show the picture to players running female characters and stoke fear in them by telling them they will have that cow dick in them if they get captured? (nope, that's sick)
2) show to your average teen player so they will start making "called shots" to hit the minotaur in the penis? (nope that's just juvenile)
3) show the picture to players to encourage them to collect bovine penises for war trophies to hang from their armor? (a miniature of that might be funny, but again nope).
4) spell component award? (I guess... if you have to)

I might have responded like San Dee that it "bored" me but it didn't even do that, I just didn't see the point. But the linked pictures are all fairly "out of context"  except for the Lamashtu. I guess I would have to see other examples of what you are referring to subjects in a sexual context to really know. I have a feeling those are the ones more likely to evoke a reaction.

Glad to hear everyone's opinions on it. We've always aimed for contextual appropriateness in the artwork. For fans of Warhammer, the context is readily apparent. For others that are unfamiliar with the work, you have to read into the creature's descriptions to get a good feel for why a handful of creatures have their naughty bits exposed.

For clarification, however, the only nudity we have up to this point is restricted to the bestiary.

While I can concede to the 'inappropriateness' of sexualized nudity in the book for those who wish to expose their little ones to ZWEIHÄNDER, I personally believe that it's no different than having a discussion with them about emulated violence in a game that's intended to be violent. Frankly, ZWEIHÄNDER - and Warhammer in general - is and has always been for mature audiences.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;947267Why add a penis to the minotaur? What are we supposed to do with that extra bit of information? I came up with a few ideas:
1) show the picture to players running female characters and stoke fear in them by telling them they will have that cow dick in them if they get captured? (nope, that's sick)
2) show to your average teen player so they will start making "called shots" to hit the minotaur in the penis? (nope that's just juvenile)
3) show the picture to players to encourage them to collect bovine penises for war trophies to hang from their armor? (a miniature of that might be funny, but again nope).
4) spell component award? (I guess... if you have to)

.

Well, since you asked, I might point out that the actual mythological minotaur was pretty much a rape monster, and the product of an interspecies rape at that.  Believe it or not, historical cultures weren't always quite so squeamish about uncomfortable (sick, or for that matter juvenile) commentary.   Actually... now that I think about it, NOT putting penii (penisuses?) on minotaurs is historical white-washing, and should be offensive to someone as a form of cultural appropriation...

It's your book. You can choose what you want to put it in it, the consequences being gaining or losing audience. Do the net gains of your outwork outweigh the possible loss of buyers? Or, more generally, what is gained by the depictions used, and what, if anything is lost?

Generally, I think going out of the way to show sexual characteristics is a bit immature.  But that's the full depth of my preferences and attitude.  You can reach the point where I'm offended, but the presence of a penis isn't going to sell me a book or stop me from buying it if the other content interests me.  The problem these days is that people flip out over everything.

I find it to be meaningless pandering to a juvenile outlook. If the art is good, if it evokes the setting and inspires gaming, then the subject matter is irrelevant. For anyone that is not the case, they arent interested in roleplaying anyways, just making a social statement.