Nowadays I think its unbelievable

RandallS · July 28, 2012, 09:27:55 PM

Quote from: gleichman;565829The only 'fatigue' I have is the utter lack of interesting game design for the last couple of decades- endless 'house system' in a different setting games, endless copies of D&D in various uninsteresting flavors, endless Lite-Systems that offer nothing but boredom.

Sorry if the games I enjoy bore you, but I spend my leisure time with what I enjoy. My enjoyment does not depend on the approval of anyone else. I've discovered that this often pisses people off because they want me to enjoy what they think I should instead. I have never cared.

Peregrin · July 28, 2012, 10:17:28 PM

Most RPGs really aren't that different, and different takes on subsystems that are glorified RNGs for task-resolution really aren't that interesting after a while.

Piestrio · July 28, 2012, 10:41:50 PM

It used to be that games were designed for a variety of tastes and we had a variety of games in the market.

Now, with the shrinking and greying of our hobby games are more and more focused on a particular demographic.

The "hardcore" gamer who likes nothing more than fapping over rules and lists.

While other games certainly exist all the big players now cater to the obsessive rules dork game reader.

Mr Nay · July 29, 2012, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: Piestrio;565858It used to be that games were designed for a variety of tastes and we had a variety of games in the market.

Now, with the shrinking and greying of our hobby games are more and more focused on a particular demographic.

The "hardcore" gamer who likes nothing more than fapping over rules and lists.

While other games certainly exist all the big players now cater to the obsessive rules dork game reader.

Damn, I hope not.

There are a lot of rules-lite games created recently, but if you mean the big industry types, a lot of them still tend to make monster sized doorstops.

Personally- give me an interesting, tight, light rules system that isn't buried in the fluff pages, but preferably with some interesting setting fluff in a nice little digest form and I am one happy guy.

There is no more room on my bookshelf for another manual full of charts and and formulas that supposedly makes the game more fun.

(Hi, I'm new here by the way and I love chatting about, reading and playing rpgs

)

The Traveller · July 29, 2012, 06:05:33 AM

Quote from: Mr Nay;565966Damn, I hope not.

There are a lot of rules-lite games created recently, but if you mean the big industry types, a lot of them still tend to make monster sized doorstops.

Personally- give me an interesting, tight, light rules system that isn't buried in the fluff pages, but preferably with some interesting setting fluff in a nice little digest form and I am one happy guy.

There is no more room on my bookshelf for another manual full of charts and and formulas that supposedly makes the game more fun.

(Hi, I'm new here by the way and I love chatting about, reading and playing rpgs )

Welcome to theRPGSite Mr Nay!

silva · July 29, 2012, 07:13:16 AM

Quote from: Mr Nay;565966Damn, I hope not.

There are a lot of rules-lite games created recently, but if you mean the big industry types, a lot of them still tend to make monster sized doorstops.

Personally- give me an interesting, tight, light rules system that isn't buried in the fluff pages, but preferably with some interesting setting fluff in a nice little digest form and I am one happy guy.

There is no more room on my bookshelf for another manual full of charts and and formulas that supposedly makes the game more fun.

(Hi, I'm new here by the way and I love chatting about, reading and playing rpgs )

Welcome Mr Nay. And I agree 100% with you.

In fact, I dont understand when someone says we are on a crappy age for gaming, since nowadays we have much more games than in the past, with a lot of radically different styles rop,ease all tastes out there.

Killfuck Soulshitter · July 29, 2012, 07:31:02 AM

Quote from: Piestrio;565858It used to be that games were designed for a variety of tastes and we had a variety of games in the market.

Now, with the shrinking and greying of our hobby games are more and more focused on a particular demographic.

The "hardcore" gamer who likes nothing more than fapping over rules and lists.

I really can't see that. It seems to me that the 80s were the golden age for rules-fapping. And we've seen a lot of variety since then - heavy, medium, light, story games, all kinds of things. Though I do think that the inventiveness has fallen off a little in the last half-decade.

Vegetable Protein · July 29, 2012, 07:40:29 AM

I think, from an industry perspective, that it is in the interest of tabletop games to focus on what they are good at (improvisation from a light rule base) and stop trying to imitate what video games are better at (quickly managing the output of rule complexity). It seems fairly clear that players have noticed what's better at what, at least subconsciously if they can't bring themselves to admit it out loud. The slow but deadly trickle of dollars away from table top will probably only halt when the designers make a clear effort to truly distinguish themselves from other entertainment industries.

Mr Nay · July 29, 2012, 07:57:36 AM

Quote from: silva;565970Welcome Mr Nay. And I agree 100% with you.

In fact, I dont understand when someone says we are on a crappy age for gaming, since nowadays we have much more games than in the past, with a lot of radically different styles rop,ease all tastes out there.

Thanks everybody, I only just discovered there is more than one main rpg forum on the net,

You are so right, there are so many great games around now, imagine going back in time 20 or 30 years with your memories intact, the selection of games would make me cry, lol.

I like to get to the fun asap and I find that unnecessary rules interfere with that, but that is just me.

Dont laugh, but I find Monster of the Week, Supers! Dead of Night, Wordplay, Hollowpoint and Atomic Highway complex enough.
Personally I find the subsystems of the World of Darkness, FATE, Apocalypse World and Little Fears: Nightmare Edition as complex as I will go these days.

Mr Nay · July 29, 2012, 08:01:26 AM

Quote from: Vegetable Protein;565973I think, from an industry perspective, that it is in the interest of tabletop games to focus on what they are good at (improvisation from a light rule base) and stop trying to imitate what video games are better at (quickly managing the output of rule complexity). It seems fairly clear that players have noticed what's better at what, at least subconsciously if they can't bring themselves to admit it out loud. The slow but deadly trickle of dollars away from table top will probably only halt when the designers make a clear effort to truly distinguish themselves from other entertainment industries.

Do you mind if I quote that elsewhere? I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

silva · July 29, 2012, 08:37:15 AM

QuoteI think, from an industry perspective, that it is in the interest of tabletop games to focus on what they are good at (improvisation from a light rule base) and stop trying to imitate what video games are better at (quickly managing the output of rule complexity). It seems fairly clear that players have noticed what's better at what, at least subconsciously if they can't bring themselves to admit it out loud. The slow but deadly trickle of dollars away from table top will probably only halt when the designers make a clear effort to truly distinguish themselves from other entertainment industries.

Yep, fucking great insight there Vegetable. I agree totally with that. The proeminence of videogames nowadays may be forcing tabletop gaming in general to adapt and find its own essence, the thing that distinguish itself from other forms of entertainment, and this is having a very positive effect on roleplaying industry, I think.

Glazer · July 29, 2012, 09:21:07 AM

I wrote a post about this kind of thing a couple of years back. This is my conclusion:

QuoteThis kind of thing is so prevalent now that I wonder if it's a bit like those huge thick books you get at airports – in other words, the popularity of an rpg is increasingly based on the number of pages in the book, not what's actually written on them. What I would much rather see is for the rule writer to treat me like an intelligent adult. Explain the rule to me, give me a couple of examples of how it works, then leave the rest up to me and move on. Less is more.

I still feel the same way.

Mr Nay · July 29, 2012, 09:59:35 AM

Quote from: Glazer;565997I wrote a post about this kind of thing a couple of years back. This is my conclusion:

I still feel the same way.

I agree with you kinda.

While I want to be treated as a grown up, I like to be treated a little bit like an idiot too when provided with examples.
It is nice to be able to see how a rule normally works in play as well as any common potentially confusing situations that may come up in play too.

What I don't want to see is every possible permutation of a rule, I don't have an eidetic memory and like to be left some wiggle room.

Wait that is almost exactly what you said, my bad.

Tom B · July 29, 2012, 03:59:19 PM

Really, my tolerance for more complex rules seems to vary over time. I used to love complex, detailed rules, but then about 12 years ago totally burned out on them. At the time, I only wanted very rules-light systems. Over the past couple of years, I've found a renewed interest in the more complex rules...as long as that complexity is there to add individuality to the characters and depth to the mechanics/setting interplay.

crkrueger · July 29, 2012, 04:08:16 PM

One of my hobbies is Roleplaying Games. I like playing them and reading them, and even though I play on average twice a week, I will read more then I will ever play. Will I play a rules system in a 400-page book? Sure, why not? If I like it, I'll play it, if I don't, I won't.

Now if I'm going to test out a game to see if I like it and want to invest in it, then the shorter the rules are, the quicker I can make a decision, but despite less time, more stress, worse eyesight, etc, the thing holding me back is usually cost, not fear of the written word. :rolleyes:

:D