Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 14, 2022, 07:51:54 AM
If we are going to change the name, then it needs to be more accurate.  GM or DM is too mild.  I vote for "Benevolent Dictator".  Or I would if I wasn't worried about what people would substitute for the explanation of "BD" as the acronym.

Benevolent? Too limiting.

Quote from: markmohrfield on April 21, 2022, 03:44:37 AM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 14, 2022, 07:51:54 AM
If we are going to change the name, then it needs to be more accurate.  GM or DM is too mild.  I vote for "Benevolent Dictator".  Or I would if I wasn't worried about what people would substitute for the explanation of "BD" as the acronym.

Benevolent? Too limiting.

Benevolent is for the players, not the characters.  You put the characters through the grinder in order to have real challenge and a sense of accomplishment for the players.  It's literally a "character building experience."

Mainly, I'm joking.  But the serious part is that players that don't need character building experiences will appreciate them for what they are, while the kind of person that wants to ban GM or DM is the type that needs every character building experience they can get, even if only indirectly through association with their character.  Serious, and ironic.

Quote from: allison-kaas on April 16, 2022, 10:49:04 PM
Referee is fine.

It isn't, because a referee is an impartial arbiter who doesn't play the game.

Quote from: Kiero on April 22, 2022, 05:06:36 PM

Quote from: allison-kaas on April 16, 2022, 10:49:04 PM
Referee is fine.

It isn't, because a referee is an impartial arbiter who doesn't play the game.

In sports a referee isn't a player, and thus doesn't play the game either. Of course those are games that can be played without a referee (if everyone is friends).

Quote from: migo on April 23, 2022, 04:26:53 AM
In sports a referee isn't a player, and thus doesn't play the game either. Of course those are games that can be played without a referee (if everyone is friends).

That's my point, referee is a terrible alternative to Game Master, because the GM plays the game.

Quote from: Kiero on April 23, 2022, 05:43:04 AM

Quote from: migo on April 23, 2022, 04:26:53 AM
In sports a referee isn't a player, and thus doesn't play the game either. Of course those are games that can be played without a referee (if everyone is friends).

That's my point, referee is a terrible alternative to Game Master, because the GM plays the game.

Indeed, that's something I keep having to reminding some players of. If the GM isn't having fun, then there's probably no game at all.

If you're going to adopt non-rpg terms you'd be better served with "dealer"; the player who deals out the hands to the other players and, in some settings, determines the rules of the round (Aces high, trumps, etc.).

That's at least in the ballpark... though again, we already have the term Game Master that covers all the tasks.

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Why have a DM/referee at all in that case? Referees are usually for when players are competing against each other. If you're all playing an RPG without the DM making up a plot, then you can choose between you to abide by the rules or cheat. Either way, I doubt many people are going to be interested in doing that job. It would be like refereeing a game of Monopoly or Scrabble; if the players are untrustworthy enough to need a dedicated referee, they probably aren't worth playing with, and it they are trustworthy, the referee has no real purpose.

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Fuck github.

While we are at it, you can go fuck yourself too.

I'm not fond of the latest D&D or WotC, but to see D&D undergo a social Marxist deconstruction because of the use of the word "Master" is as fucked up as a soup sandwich. If you are not getting enough emergent game-play at your table, then maybe the problem is you and not the DM.

Greetings!

I like the term Dungeon Master. I wear the "Viking Hat" and the DM should have all power and be entirely in-charge of the campaign and the game. The campaign is the DM's.

Beyond all of the traditional reasons, I like the term Dungeon Master, and I certainly will never change it or stop using the term. Plus, it makes whining SJW's squirm and cry. "Dungeon Master is a term loaded with symbology and meaning concerning the evil patriarchy, misogyny, and iron-fisted tyranny."

All true Dungeon Masters should keep an iron gauntlet and a whip close at hand, just as a reminder to the players who are the lesser creatures, and who is the master.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 06:56:25 AM

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Fuck github.

While we are at it, you can go fuck yourself too.

I'm not fond of the latest D&D or WotC, but to see D&D undergo a social Marxist deconstruction because of the use of the word "Master" is as fucked up as a soup sandwich. If you are not getting enough emergent game-play at your table, then maybe the problem is you and not the DM.

^This, except the very last bit.

If you're not getting enough emergent game-play it might possibly be the DM's fault, cuz some DMs can be railroady AF. But even if that's the case, changing the term used to refer to them just because you arbitrarily CHOSE to get hung up on the term isn't going to change that. Life doesn't change just because you alter the terminology used for things, you fucking nitwits.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 06:56:25 AM

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Fuck github.

While we are at it, you can go fuck yourself too.

I'm not fond of the latest D&D or WotC, but to see D&D undergo a social Marxist deconstruction because of the use of the word "Master" is as fucked up as a soup sandwich. If you are not getting enough emergent game-play at your table, then maybe the problem is you and not the DM.

Just remember, thanks to Ryan Dancey and the OGL, D&D belongs to the players. Hasbro/WotC still owns the Dungeons & Dragons trademark, but Dungeons & Dragons the game belongs to us. We can keep playing Castles & Crusades, OSRIC or Dark Dungeon as much as we like.

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM
master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

lol fuck off

Dungeon Oppressor has a nice ring.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 25, 2022, 07:05:35 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 06:56:25 AM

Quote from: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:33:33 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 11, 2022, 09:51:32 PM
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master

I refuse to comply.

master is going away as a default term in github. It's time that it goes away in D&D too.

I like to go back to Referee, myself, as it is a good term for what a dungeon 'master' should really be. A fair and impartial referee of the rules without any bias or control over the game or the group. The best D&D games are the ones that are open ended and develop emergent story based on the fair adjudication of an impartial referee to determine what happens when players do what they want to do.

Let's try to get D&D further from pre-planned stories and more towards emergent game-play. That actually starts by no longer referring to the 'DM' as the Dungeon 'Master' which implies someone who controls the story but instead something more neutral like Referee.

Fuck github.

While we are at it, you can go fuck yourself too.

I'm not fond of the latest D&D or WotC, but to see D&D undergo a social Marxist deconstruction because of the use of the word "Master" is as fucked up as a soup sandwich. If you are not getting enough emergent game-play at your table, then maybe the problem is you and not the DM.

^This, except the very last bit.

If you're not getting enough emergent game-play it might possibly be the DM's fault, cuz some DMs can be railroady AF. But even if that's the case, changing the term used to refer to them just because you arbitrarily CHOSE to get hung up on the term isn't going to change that. Life doesn't change just because you alter the terminology used for things, you fucking nitwits.

Yeah, I can't argue that point.
The Player can walk away from the game, though.