Quote from: GhostNinja on April 13, 2022, 04:19:51 PM
The woke idiots make a lot of noise, but they aren't making an impact on the hobby.  People are overacting.

They got artists fired, they got fantasy races lore changed, they got disclaimers in books saying "If you are x. y, z the hobby doesn't want you" they've already policed language in books and are actively rewriting lore to fit their views. I'd say they've made a large impact that continues to grow as companies bend over to them thinking it'll make them money. Hell, they are trying to badmouth Gygax and get him "removed" from the hobby just like how they are doing the same thing with Tolkien.

Quote from: jhkim on April 13, 2022, 01:02:39 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 12, 2022, 11:23:00 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:27:46 PM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 12, 2022, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.

Referees do not coach the opposing (NPC) team. Adjudicator might be more to the point, but still incomplete as there is more to facilitating a game than adjudicating.

GMs don't coach an opposing team, either. Referee is far superior to narrator, but it's still an imperfect fit. Hence, Game Master.

You could try the likes of games where GM = Director and Player = Actor.

From the outside, I think the term "game master" is parallel to "scoutmaster", "schoolmaster", and similar - it implies that the person is in charge of the others, similar to "director" but without the context of theater. Pundit's suggested "manager" is much the same. ​Yes, "DM" means something different after you've started playing RPGs, but the same is true of any of the other terms. Someone who starts by playing Traveller will understand that an RPG referee is different from a sports referee.

To be fair, there are a lot of groups where the GM is very much this. The GM tells the players what the next adventure will be, and the players obediently take whatever job a stranger in a bar offers them.

But there are also games that are more player-lead, even with traditional mechanics. In a sandbox game, the players might go in a completely different direction than the GM expected, and the GM simply rolls with it. Instead of just following along with the GM leads to the next adventure, the players can freely choose where they go and what they do, which is a lot of control over the whole game. The players might decide on a city intrigue, desert tomb-raiding, or anything in between.


Among the many terms RPGs use, I like ones that imply to newcomers more that degree of control that players can have over the game. These include "referee" from OD&D and Traveller, along with "game moderator" from Over the Edge. I strongly dislike "storyteller" from White Wolf games, which really implies players as passive audience, though "story guide" from Ars Magica is OK.

Bolding mine.

So if I declared myself "jhkim Master", I could make you sign over your paychecks to me, right?

Quote from: migo on April 13, 2022, 01:38:39 PM
The thing is Game Master is the default. It's what a designer uses if they want to designate the role in the game. If a designer uses any other term, it means they've put thought into it. So you do have to scrutinise why they used the term, because they mean something specific by choosing a different term. GM is the best if you want to make the game the emphasis, and not emphasise how your game is different.

Hollyhock God it is!

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 13, 2022, 04:19:51 PM
The DM/GM is the one who buys the most game books, not the players.  Removing the DM will cost them money and would be very stupid and would backfire. I guarantee if were to do that they would have to backtrack quickly. 

The woke idiots make a lot of noise, but they aren't making an impact on the hobby.  People are overacting.

Are you sure about that?  5E has been very brazen about including player options in most books.  It's quite obviously to drive sales to the players instead of just the DM.  There hasn't been the usual Monster Manual bonanza to the benefit of the 3PP who are stepping up.

One other unmentioned advantage of Dungeon/Game Master is it allows for the convenient shorthand of DM/GM to go alongside PC and NPC. No one wants to type out Narrator or even Referee when they can just type GM (similarly, who regularly writes out "player character" when they can write PC?).

It's just so much more convenient.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on April 13, 2022, 01:31:06 AM
My vote is for "Dungeon Sensitivity Guide"/s

Okay, but Player must be reached with Participant, because the term "Player/Playa" is fraught with  connections to Misogynistic Toxic Masculinity in Dating Culture.
Milestones removed due to their connections to Colonial American roadways. Colonization is bad, my guy!  Instead, levels will be awarded by Participation Rewards.

😉

I don't know if they're serious,  or just performing for Twitter.   Both?

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 13, 2022, 05:44:33 AMI look at this as just more tools to keep the Players who I don't want to deal with while playing away from me.

Exactly.

The hobby will benefit from more segregation. Everyone has chosen their side and now its just time for the hobby to split into separate entities with their own conventions, public events and eventually, their own companies.

If we are going to change the name, then it needs to be more accurate.  GM or DM is too mild.  I vote for "Benevolent Dictator".  Or I would if I wasn't worried about what people would substitute for the explanation of "BD" as the acronym.

I am a forever Game Master in practice and in name.

Screw Twitter.

Quote from: Kahoona on April 13, 2022, 06:11:26 PM
They got artists fired, they got fantasy races lore changed, they got disclaimers in books saying "If you are x. y, z the hobby doesn't want you" they've already policed language in books and are actively rewriting lore to fit their views. I'd say they've made a large impact that continues to grow as companies bend over to them thinking it'll make them money. Hell, they are trying to badmouth Gygax and get him "removed" from the hobby just like how they are doing the same thing with Tolkien.

They had, but I think people are on to their crap and I do not think the WOKE crowd are as powerful.  I even saw an idiot on The Big Purple complaining how Social Justice is being ignored.  I think people are seeing what the social justice/Woke crowd are doing and are tired of it.

Quote from: Palleon on April 13, 2022, 08:21:27 PM
Are you sure about that?  5E has been very brazen about including player options in most books.  It's quite obvious to drive sales to the players instead of just the DM.  There hasn't been the usual Monster Manual bonanza to the benefit of the 3PP who are stepping up.

The monsters are in the Monster manual and the rules are in the Player's handbook so in order to play, you really need both.  The DM guide is a nice have but not necessary but people usually get the set if they are running the game.  In the most games I have been in the players only have the player's handbook.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 14, 2022, 08:59:41 AM

Quote from: Palleon on April 13, 2022, 08:21:27 PM
Are you sure about that?  5E has been very brazen about including player options in most books.  It's quite obvious to drive sales to the players instead of just the DM.  There hasn't been the usual Monster Manual bonanza to the benefit of the 3PP who are stepping up.

The monsters are in the Monster manual and the rules are in the Player's handbook so in order to play, you really need both.  The DM guide is a nice have but not necessary but people usually get the set if they are running the game.  In the most games I have been in the players only have the player's handbook.

Um... unless you want your game to run without magic items and certain other rules. Yes. You need the DMG.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 14, 2022, 08:57:37 AM
They had, but I think people are on to their crap and I do not think the WOKE crowd are as powerful.  I even saw an idiot on The Big Purple complaining how Social Justice is being ignored.  I think people are seeing what the social justice/Woke crowd are doing and are tired of it.

I agree, they are as powerful as companies make them. The woke crowd let's companies censor and defame as much as they like. Any competition killed off by the very people would make the corporations look bad. And while people are getting wise to it and some companies are waking up to the fact. Many more are content in letting SJW's run rampant, sure that once their competition dies or they've secured a market that they'll make money.

The biggest issue is the fact that many Marketers and "Outsourced" help are infact SJWs and continue to push this logic. We've seen time and time again companies lose money to SJW rhetoric yet they keep on pushing on because their marketers and economists swear up and down that "This" is what people want. So until people stop buying the product completely or companies outst the problem from the source SJWs will continue to have power.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 14, 2022, 08:57:37 AM

Quote from: Kahoona on April 13, 2022, 06:11:26 PM
They got artists fired, they got fantasy races lore changed, they got disclaimers in books saying "If you are x. y, z the hobby doesn't want you" they've already policed language in books and are actively rewriting lore to fit their views. I'd say they've made a large impact that continues to grow as companies bend over to them thinking it'll make them money. Hell, they are trying to badmouth Gygax and get him "removed" from the hobby just like how they are doing the same thing with Tolkien.

They had, but I think people are on to their crap and I do not think the WOKE crowd are as powerful.  I even saw an idiot on The Big Purple complaining how Social Justice is being ignored.  I think people are seeing what the social justice/Woke crowd are doing and are tired of it.

If you have a link to it would like to read it. Always good to see SJWs not get their way.