You know what, I don't care.

If a potential player gets offended by my use of the term Dungeon Master and doesn't want to game at my table, then that is one less shithead I will have to deal with. Same goes with public venues, if they don't like me using that term then I take my game somewhere else.

Just like X cards. I look at this as just more tools to keep the Players who I don't want to deal with while playing away from me.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 13, 2022, 05:44:33 AM
You know what, I don't care.

If a potential player gets offended by my use of the term Dungeon Master and doesn't want to game at my table, then that is one less shithead I will have to deal with. Same goes with public venues, if they don't like me using that term then I take my game somewhere else.

Just like X cards. I look at this as just more tools to keep the Players who I don't want to deal with while playing away from me.

Yes.  Plus, someone offended by the term Dungeon Master or Game Master is going to be a whole lot more offended when they find out that in the course of mastering the game, I've squashed their snowflake pretensions.  Better to get that out of the way as soon as possible.  So its a win-win for everyone.

Will WoTC relinquish their trademark?

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on April 13, 2022, 01:31:06 AM
My vote is for "Dungeon Sensitivity Guide"/s

Okay, that made me laugh enough I almost want to start using it. 😆

Quote from: mightybrain on April 13, 2022, 07:16:29 AM
Will WoTC relinquish their trademark?

No, for the same reason that Quaker isn't relinquishing the trademark on Aunt Jemima. It allows them to re-release older product for nostalgia buzz.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 13, 2022, 11:14:01 AM

Quote from: mightybrain on April 13, 2022, 07:16:29 AM
Will WoTC relinquish their trademark?

No, for the same reason that Quaker isn't relinquishing the trademark on Aunt Jemima. It allows them to re-release older product for nostalgia buzz.

I thought Aunt Jemima was an evil racist stereotype? Oh wait, didn't they already redesign her so that she had an afro and pearl earrings in order to distance themselves from the racist "mammy" imagery? And they have to pay a ton in royalties to Nancy Green's descendants? They could've spin doctored this into a black success story, but instead they chose to erase it. Probably because they don't want to pay royalties to Green's family, not because they actually care about systemic racism. It was a multi-billion dollar lawsuit that got thrown out and nobody is talking about it. She didn't even get a headstone until 2020. Why is BLM not talking about Nancy Green? Where is the outrage? Why are people not calling for a "Nancy Green" brand of food whose proceeds go to her family?

Because it's not about justice. It's about control.

It's silly and completely pointless.   Dungeon Master and Game Master are in the Lexicon of RPGS and people who have been gaming for a long time (people like me and I am guessing most people on this site) are still going to use these words and there is nothing these idiots can do about it.

Are they going to try to break into my game and force us not to use those words? 

These people need to get jobs and get hobbies and need to start worrying about themselves and not worry about what other people are doing to have fun.   They have been trying their crap for awhile but haven't been able to really make an impact.

Any games that listen to their changes will be ignored and not played.  It's like D&D 4e, it sucked, and people rejected it.  So, Pathfinder was created, and people moved over to that and it became popular.

These losers are wasting their time and any company that listens to them has a deathwish.

You know . . . I was at an online con recently and they were using some other term, and I just figured they were doing so because at lot of games don't use the term game master/dungeon master. You also have story-games that are GMless or have people facilitating boardgames, so if you want to use a different term that seems to capture all of those, go for it.

But don't tell me I can't say Game Master.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 12, 2022, 11:23:00 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:27:46 PM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 12, 2022, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.

Referees do not coach the opposing (NPC) team. Adjudicator might be more to the point, but still incomplete as there is more to facilitating a game than adjudicating.

GMs don't coach an opposing team, either. Referee is far superior to narrator, but it's still an imperfect fit. Hence, Game Master.

You could try the likes of games where GM = Director and Player = Actor.

From the outside, I think the term "game master" is parallel to "scoutmaster", "schoolmaster", and similar - it implies that the person is in charge of the others, similar to "director" but without the context of theater. Pundit's suggested "manager" is much the same. ​Yes, "DM" means something different after you've started playing RPGs, but the same is true of any of the other terms. Someone who starts by playing Traveller will understand that an RPG referee is different from a sports referee.

To be fair, there are a lot of groups where the GM is very much this. The GM tells the players what the next adventure will be, and the players obediently take whatever job a stranger in a bar offers them.

But there are also games that are more player-lead, even with traditional mechanics. In a sandbox game, the players might go in a completely different direction than the GM expected, and the GM simply rolls with it. Instead of just following along with the GM leads to the next adventure, the players can freely choose where they go and what they do, which is a lot of control over the whole game. The players might decide on a city intrigue, desert tomb-raiding, or anything in between.


Among the many terms RPGs use, I like ones that imply to newcomers more that degree of control that players can have over the game. These include "referee" from OD&D and Traveller, along with "game moderator" from Over the Edge. I strongly dislike "storyteller" from White Wolf games, which really implies players as passive audience, though "story guide" from Ars Magica is OK.

The thing is Game Master is the default. It's what a designer uses if they want to designate the role in the game. If a designer uses any other term, it means they've put thought into it. So you do have to scrutinise why they used the term, because they mean something specific by choosing a different term. GM is the best if you want to make the game the emphasis, and not emphasise how your game is different.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 13, 2022, 12:16:46 PM
It's silly and completely pointless.   Dungeon Master and Game Master are in the Lexicon of RPGS and people who have been gaming for a long time (people like me and I am guessing most people on this site) are still going to use these words and there is nothing these idiots can do about it.

I think you're missing the point. Just like the term "race", they aren't going to try to get you or me to change the words we use. They are just going to create a new word that all the new players will use. Then you and I will seem like old, out of touch, doofuses for using these outdated term.

Ultimately, though, the goal for WotC is to completely remove the Dungeon Master and replace him with some sort of token passing system. Mostly for financial reason, if there no DM to create new adventures, then the only way people can play D&D is to buy pre-built adventures.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 13, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
Ultimately, though, the goal for WotC is to completely remove the Dungeon Master and replace it with some sort of token passing system. Mostly for financial reason, if there no DM to create new adventures, then the only way people can play D&D is to buy pre-built adventures.

I've enjoyed a number of rotating GM setups since Ars Magica back in the late 1980s, but I don't think it's more profitable for the company. My understanding from finances is that adventures are very marginal profit. For a big company like TSR or WotC, they make adventures mainly to get players playing, then reap the real profits out of the core books (and now D&D Beyond subscriptions).

Regardless of whether it's rotating GM or single GM, only one person is going to buy a given pre-made adventure.

Quote from: jhkim on April 13, 2022, 02:26:27 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 13, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
Ultimately, though, the goal for WotC is to completely remove the Dungeon Master and replace it with some sort of token passing system. Mostly for financial reason, if there no DM to create new adventures, then the only way people can play D&D is to buy pre-built adventures.

I've enjoyed a number of rotating GM setups since Ars Magica back in the late 1980s, but I don't think it's more profitable for the company. My understanding from finances is that adventures are very marginal profit. For a big company like TSR or WotC, they make adventures mainly to get players playing, then reap the real profits out of the core books (and now D&D Beyond subscriptions).

Regardless of whether it's rotating GM or single GM, only one person is going to buy a given pre-made adventure.

Money is in the Core 3 books that they can print all day every day and people need them to play.  I think it was Ryan Dancy who said they created the OGL so they could sell more core books to people and leave the adventure writing , where there is little profit, to others.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 13, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
I think you're missing the point. Just like the term "race", they aren't going to try to get you or me to change the words we use. They are just going to create a new word that all the new players will use. Then you and I will seem like old, out of touch, doofuses for using these outdated term.

The problem is many of the new players that come into the hobby are brought in via games being run by established gamers.   If they get too stupid they are going to push away the established gamers to other games, out of the hobby or will cause them to play the old versions and will not make money.  Without those gamers running the newest and greatest version, new gamers will be brought into the older versions and not into the newer versions and thus they won't know or buy about the new version.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 13, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
Ultimately, though, the goal for WotC is to completely remove the Dungeon Master and replace him with some sort of token passing system. Mostly for financial reasons, if there no DM to create new adventures, then the only way people can play D&D is to buy pre-built adventures.

The DM/GM is the one who buys the most game books, not the players.  Removing the DM will cost them money and would be very stupid and would backfire. I guarantee if were to do that they would have to backtrack quickly. 

The woke idiots make a lot of noise, but they aren't making an impact on the hobby.  People are overacting.