Quote from: Melan;1137221Remember: these people are bookburners. Perhaps cowardly ones who have not lit up a pile of forbidden literature yet, but the intent is there.



Sure, at this point, at least a few Mensheviks are raising concerns about going this far. But RPGNet is a pretty Menshevik place all things considered.

That image is disturbing. It'slegitamately disturbing that there are entire swaths of people that believe that always feeling comfortable are the only things that matter in life, and are willing to give up everything for that.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1137199When do the copyrights expire? Maybe there ought to be a rule that if the owner of a copyright deliberately suppresses his work, he loses the copyright and it goes into the public domain. The purpose of a copyright is so the owner can earn money off of it, if he refuses to earn money, and simply owns it to suppress it, he should lose the copyright as the purpose of copyrights is not to suppress free speech.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1137201Well, that's a whole nother can of worms, and I'm no expert on copyright law, or how such a situation could or would be enforced.

For what it's worth, the copyright on Oriental Adventures is 1985 Gary Gygax. So by current U.S. law, the copyright will expire in 2078, based on the life of the author plus 70 years (since Gygax died in 2008). Personally, I consider that to be utterly insane. I think Oriental Adventures has had plenty of time to benefit it's creators, and it should be in the public domain by now. After 35 years, I think people should be able to make their own retroclones of it or other remixes without having to worry about being sued by WotC.

That said, copyright has never been solely linked to making a profit.

All of this drama, over the stats for a Katana?

My goodness, couldn't they find something better to whine about?  Famine, poverty, the size of sodas in New York?

Quote from: Razor 007;1137230All of this drama, over the stats for a Katana?

My goodness, couldn't they find something better to whine about?  Famine, poverty, the size of sodas in New York?

You don't understand! The blade is curved, and to them this is racist! Why oriental blades are curved and Europeans straight? They fight for social justice, according to them katanas must also be straight.

Quote from: Melan;1137192Do note that their end goal is "firing the fans" - i.e. removing existing "problematic" gamers from the hobby, and replacing them with an entirely new, presumably more politically acceptable demographic. This idea emerged on RPGNet and smaller indie forums in the late 2000s, and has been simmering in the background ever since. The assumption is that this is socially desirable, and no big loss business-wise, since the new fans will be diverse, hip, and more numerous. ("Go woke, go broke" is the opposite hypothesis).

In general, I have no problem with some companies marketing to liberal gamers, some companies marketing to conservative gamers, and some companies marketing more broadly. I think all three are viable, and sales will work out.

But Oriental Adventures should remain for sale regardless of the focus of current marketing. If they feel strongly about it, they can package it together with a commentary or critique. But just removing it from sale blocks people even from critiquing it.

As a parallel, a year or two ago, I had to jump through some hoops to watch the movie "Song of the South" with my son. Disney had pulled it from sale a while ago, so I had to collect it from pirate sites online. That's crap. It should be available to see in its original form.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1137199When do the copyrights expire? Maybe there ought to be a rule that if the owner of a copyright deliberately suppresses his work, he loses the copyright and it goes into the public domain. The purpose of a copyright is so the owner can earn money off of it, if he refuses to earn money, and simply owns it to suppress it, he should lose the copyright as the purpose of copyrights is not to suppress free speech.

   There are such cases--it's how Steve Jackson got The Fantasy Trip back. But they tend to be difficult and probably require someone with standing, from the little I know or guess.

Quote from: estar;1137211One problem with using terms like Oriental, Far East, etc, is their lack of precision. Thanks to the explosion of interest in the culture and history of many Asian countries like Japan, China, and Korea, we have a better idea of what makes each distinct including their myths and legends. Another it is long association with institutions that were in existence during the age of imperialism in Asia.

This is pure gibberish...it's almost like you don't even know what Asia actually means.

Quote from: Brad;1137241This is pure gibberish...it's almost like you don't even know what Asia actually means.

Huh? It sounds like he knows exactly what it means.

Quote from: trechriron;1137243Huh? It sounds like he knows exactly what it means.

Not sure if serious...

"One problem with using terms like Oriental, Far East, etc, is their lack of precision."

Then he goes on to call it Asia. Like, what?

OA shouldn't be banned. No books or movies should be banned. If you know the content is going to bother you, just avoid it. This "nanny state" bullshit makes me ashamed of being liberal.

You can't help remove Asian stereotypes by banning an RPG. You have to change your behavior and how you treat people. The whole point of RPGs is playing a Role. It's right in the title. MANY people find it helpful to draw on archetypes to make characters. The Samurai, the Ninja... these are the archetypes people want to explore when playing in an Asian-themed game. Not to mention the cool weapons, martial arts, magical abilities, and other cool things nerds love to explore within the media of Asian culture.

Someday, the world will return to balance. We will understand that fantasy does not equal reality. That reading, playing, or learning about something does not detract from culture but reminds us why we should respect culture.

Quote from: trechriron;1137246OA shouldn't be banned. No books or movies should be banned. If you know the content is going to bother you, just avoid it. This "nanny state" bullshit makes me ashamed of being liberal.

Oh boy, there's still hope for you. Although the term "liberal" cuts both ways, you are just one step shy from saying conservative. Not bad!

The only way to end this bs is by not buying woke content. Why so many people here still support woke authors?

Quote from: ZetaRidley;1137222That image is disturbing. It'slegitamately disturbing that there are entire swaths of people that believe that always feeling comfortable are the only things that matter in life, and are willing to give up everything for that.

These are the same people that think its ok to erase the world trace buildings from movies "because it might make someone sad".

Quote from: Brad;1137241This is pure gibberish...it's almost like you don't even know what Asia actually means.

Welcome to Estarworld. Enjoy your stay.

Sorry hadn't meant to mention it...

But if we are talking about 'harmful stereotypes', can we also please get Asian video game developers to cease using very 'hurtful' Western stereotypes. Y'know like we was in every video game (and still do!). Guile, Blanka, Balrog, Vega, etc. And while we are at it, can we do the same with all their manga stuff and cinema too?

I'm personally very 'triggered' after all these years of playing nintendo and shit.

So it's okay for the 'Asians' to stereotype us then? That seems fair...

Quote from: jhkim;1137235In general, I have no problem with some companies marketing to liberal gamers, some companies marketing to conservative gamers, and some companies marketing more broadly. I think all three are viable, and sales will work out.

But Oriental Adventures should remain for sale regardless of the focus of current marketing. If they feel strongly about it, they can package it together with a commentary or critique. But just removing it from sale blocks people even from critiquing it.

As a parallel, a year or two ago, I had to jump through some hoops to watch the movie "Song of the South" with my son. Disney had pulled it from sale a while ago, so I had to collect it from pirate sites online. That's crap. It should be available to see in its original form.

If you think this is crap, the same people are doing a critical review of...
Al Qadim
Currently on the Radar to follow Al Qadim
Kindred of the East
L5R
Rifts:China/Mythic China
Feng Shui

451 has begun