Corps gonna corp.

WotC adds the "Old stuff is Ist" text to the front of the OA description on DTRPG to please the Eternally Outraged.
They add the same text to the end of every other TSR product description to future-proof themselves to this bullshit.
The person who pasted the text to everything was probably an unpaid intern.
They continue to profit off everything.

Corps gonna corp.

Quote from: Mistwell;1139509...I love how guys like you think you're better than social justice warriors to despise. You're just the other side of the same coin, moralizing to others to make sacrifices for your cause to signal to like-minded people that you're in good standing with your bubble community of fanatics.

Well, you have to admit, the thread has been allowed to continue its conflicting course of views, without being shut down within an hour and people being banned for not trumpeting the platform, which is more than I can say for some other forum sites.  I abhor an echo chamber and it is good to not have everyone agree with each other's point of view.  At that point, one might as well not bother visiting the forum anymore.

I understand what your trying to say, along the 'we met the enemy and they were us' line.  However, I do think that this particular part of the previous post is relevant:

Quote from: 1989;1139491...Not like it will make a difference, but it's the principle.  Spend your dollars elsewhere, with publishers who are not bowing down to politics.

Other than signing a petition online (which may or may not make any difference), voicing our displeasure on forums of the recent actions taken, what else is going to make a corporation with shareholders take any notice other than monetary and a little less exposure of their product in the hobby?  Admittedly, I think it will probably be a drop in the bucket, but to just inwardly grumble to oneself about it and do nothing seems such a paltry response.

It is certainly up to people to play whatever they want and I would not force anyone to not enjoy whatever game they want in the hobby.  I certainly don't think that adopting the same stringent tactics being used by those proponents of the disclaimer and possibly more active changes to the older material is the right move.  The main point is as a consumer, one can only do so much with the options that we have and since most of us are against this move by WOtC, not supporting 5e any further is a valid move of resistance for many and the opinion has merit.
The idea does not force anyone to do anything different:  it's just an opinion to take or leave, but that is a far cry from the more extreme moves that seem to be in wait for the green light by the parent company.

I don't agree with the disclaimer and I don't think that WOtC has the right to rewrite history based on some pretty outlandish ideas that have germinated and seem to have become truth through constant retelling.  Without any sort of reaction against it, will just lead the company to believe they are on the right track for their audience and be tempted to continue a bad trend.  The hubris of decrying their previous material, except for their star product just reeks of a corporation watching their profit line.

The hobby is bigger than WOtC and will be still here when they have imploded at some point.  Still, they should not have the right to make an obvious pandering judgement on all the material that has gone before them that help build this hobby to where it is today.

I think an Orwell quote may work quite well right now:

And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed--if all records told the same tale--then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'

Perhaps a bit heavy handed, but today's news and choices by companies that steer the ship, becomes tomorrow's version of history.

I, for one, will certainly not be buying anything from WotC (or Paizo for that matter) until they dial back the madness. Granted, it's fairly easy for me to say since I don't even like 5e (or PF 2e)... but I won't be buying any PDFs or POD books for the older systems either, something I would've otherwise done.

Quote from: Morblot;1140134I, for one, will certainly not be buying anything from WotC (or Paizo for that matter) until they dial back the madness. Granted, it's fairly easy for me to say since I don't even like 5e (or PF 2e)... but -

"Henceforth, I am not going to buy things I dislike!"

The world will applaud your strong stance on this issue. Stunning and brave.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1140137"Henceforth, I am not going to buy things I dislike!"

The world will applaud your strong stance on this issue. Stunning and brave.

I though my generation was supposed to be the one with the short attention span You did read the part about not buying the PDFs either? I do like TSR and 3.X stuff.

Quote from: Morblot;1140139I though my generation was supposed to be the one with the short attention span You did read the part about not buying the PDFs either? I do like TSR and 3.X stuff.

Aah.  So you'll be standing in solidarity with people who think the old products are racist?

Seriously though.  Buy the old products if you want them.  WOTC won't care if you don't buy them, and you're not endorsing them if you do.  The idea that you shouldn't buy products that you actually want because it is somehow an endoresment of everything a company stands for is one of the sillier ideas coming out of the left in the last few years.

I mean, by all means don't buy the new products if their wokeness makes them unappealing, and if enough people do that there may be a change in direction, but not buying PDFs of decades old products won't achieve anything.

Of course the old products are easily obtainable on the net if you know where to look so that's an option too.  That's not giving any money to WOTC.  (Of course I have no idea if the writers of said products still get any original royalties as well).

No. I will not give money to people who despise both me and the old books they're profiting from so that they can use it to produce even more woke content.

Neither will I pirate them. I'll either get them used from eBay, Noble Knight, The Shop on the Borderlands or the like, or live without.

I know that whatever I do or don't do doesn't matter to them, but it matters to me.

Quote from: Morblot;1140148I know that whatever I do or don't do doesn't matter to them, but it matters to me.

Exactly.  It is stunning how many people don't get this point.

Quote from: Morblot;1140148I know that whatever I do or don't do doesn't matter to them, but it matters to me.

Dammit, where is the 'Like' button?

Quote from: Morblot;1140148No.

I know that whatever I do or don't do doesn't matter to them, but it matters to me.

Amen!

Quote from: Shasarak;1139918Come on, the One Ring is nowhere near as useful as a Zombie Baby.

And having a Zombie Baby is hardly corrupting at all.

Tell that to the mother.

Quote from: JeffB;1138835This is only the beginning.

For sure. Look who's hiring a new Senior Manager for just such endeavors! Whoever they put in that position is going to want/have to justify their fat salary.

Quote from: Zalman;1140225For sure. Look who's hiring a new Senior Manager for just such endeavors! Whoever they put in that position is going to want/have to justify their fat salary.

Easy in this current environment. Just wear a "Black Lives Matter" tee shirt, put a rainbow flag sticker in your car window, and say things like "Equity" and "Systemic".

Quote from: Zalman;1140225For sure. Look who's hiring a new Senior Manager for just such endeavors! Whoever they put in that position is going to want/have to justify their fat salary.

"Are you an experienced Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Leader (DE&I) who seeks to build fun, innovative organizations, where people can come to work and bring their whole selves?"

This whole thing is either an elaborate joke or civilization needs a hard reset.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1140059Godwin aside, if WOTC can successfully spin it like that, then nothing we do will make a difference. It's time to leave the Farm.

One of those rare cases where Goodwin is steadily approaching applicable to the problem.