Now they are coming for your old rulebooks

Kyle Aaron · July 10, 2020, 09:01:07 PM

Quote from: oggsmash;1138974imaginary space Muslims.

In Classic Traveller, space marines are issued with a cutlass. Which is basically a scimitar. No culture is outlined in CT, but reading between the lines we can conclude that space marines are Ottoman Turks. Janissaries! I'm imagining very colourful vacc suits, the men singing songs in Turk as they carry out a boarding action.

BoxCrayonTales · July 10, 2020, 09:12:03 PM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1139026In Classic Traveller, space marines are issued with a cutlass. Which is basically a scimitar. No culture is outlined in CT, but reading between the lines we can conclude that space marines are Ottoman Turks. Janissaries! I'm imagining very colourful vacc suits, the men singing songs in Turk as they carry out a boarding action.

Muslims don't get enough love in scifi. They're typically either absent or only present as terrorist caricatures.

Shasarak · July 10, 2020, 09:31:08 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139021Well that's certainly disturbing.

I dont know how we all managed to survive the horror.

Maybe we were all too racist to notice.

Shasarak · July 10, 2020, 09:33:54 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139027Muslims don't get enough love in scifi. They're typically either absent or only present as terrorist caricatures.

I hear that A Desert Called Peace treats Muslims respectfully.

GeekyBugle · July 10, 2020, 09:48:44 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139027Muslims don't get enough love in scifi. They're typically either absent or only present as terrorist caricatures.

So? Who the fuck cares? I'm guessing this is your western first world lenses, and that Muslim authors do write plenty of Muslim led fiction.

BoxCrayonTales · July 10, 2020, 10:00:20 PM

Quote from: Shasarak;1139028I dont know how we all managed to survive the horror.

Maybe we were all too racist to notice.

I don't think that's why. Even if it was, everybody's a little bit racist.

Quote from: Shasarak;1139029I hear that A Desert Called Peace treats Muslims respectfully.

I never got that impression. It reads like trollfic.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1139032So? Who the fuck cares? I'm guessing this is your western first world lenses, and that Muslim authors do write plenty of Muslim led fiction.

First world problems, amirite?

Kyle Aaron · July 11, 2020, 01:21:47 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139027Muslims don't get enough love in scifi. They're typically either absent or only present as terrorist caricatures.

Sure. What makes for more interesting scifi is - well, think of all the changes we've seen in real world religions in the last 1,000 years. Zip forward another thousand years, how much will things have changed? Secular ideals will be different, too.

TJS · July 11, 2020, 01:28:13 AM

Well there's Dune which shows a grappling with certain ideas from Islam (although arguably not necessarily in a positive way).

There's also Pitch Black where an Iman is a major character. And there's the Coriolis Rpg .

But it's hard to think of many space opera's where Christianity is a big influence either. Science Fiction has traditionally gone with the idea that religion would either disappear entirely or become more rationalist.

Kyle Aaron · July 11, 2020, 01:41:59 AM

Or they just present religion in the form of suicide cults.

Trinculoisdead · July 11, 2020, 02:32:19 AM

There's a big Muslim presence in the Mars trilogy.

TJS · July 11, 2020, 02:43:32 AM

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1139060There's a big Muslim presence in the Mars trilogy.

Yes! How did I forget that!

Spinachcat · July 11, 2020, 03:40:15 AM

Quote from: TJS;1139061Yes! How did I forget that!

Because you're waaaaaaaycist!!!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139021I think I know an easy way to determine whether something is racist: pretend it's a human being.

LOL. That's precious...and fucking insane.

Omega · July 11, 2020, 03:44:48 AM

Quote from: oggsmash;1139007I agree with what you are saying, and it seems to be an application of critical theory to constantly deconstruct all the things...so they can be re made in a non problematic image I guess, so people can stop being abused by the problematic stuff they see in their political entertainment (like killing orcs.....) I guess.

This is part of the problem. Every damn time with each iteration these nuts take something, or several somethings and abuse its meaning to the point people get fed up and treat it as a joke. It becomes harder and harder to take any claim seriously after enough abuse of a claim. Rape is a recurring one that cycles between serious and ridicule due to abuse. Racist is another. Sexist. These pop up with each iteration to some degree because SJWs and grifters seem to love to abuse them to death.

And theres usually some push to declare old terms as "bigoted" and present trendy new terms to replace them. New terms that are actually insulting.

BoxCrayonTales · July 11, 2020, 08:21:44 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1139066Because you're waaaaaaaycist!!!

LOL. That's precious...and fucking insane.

I never said it was foolproof.

I don't think saying "anybody who notices parallels between the way fictional races are described and real world racist caricatures are the real racists!" is any kind of improvement.

I definitely think there's room for reasonable debate.

I also think there's a distinct possibility that somebody could write a deliberate racist tract and conceal their intentions by replacing all mentions of real world people with fantasy races. Does that make their work suddenly not racist?

I'm not saying that we should barred from playing violent murder simulators. I love playing my copy of Postal 2. Sometimes it's cathartic to slaughter droves of innocent people with a machete.

oggsmash · July 11, 2020, 08:41:17 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1139083I never said it was foolproof.

I don't think saying "anybody who notices parallels between the way fictional races are described and real world racist caricatures are the real racists!" is any kind of improvement.

I definitely think there's room for reasonable debate.

I also think there's a distinct possibility that somebody could write a deliberate racist tract and conceal their intentions by replacing all mentions of real world people with fantasy races. Does that make their work suddenly not racist?

I'm not saying that we should barred from playing violent murder simulators. I love playing my copy of Postal 2. Sometimes it's cathartic to slaughter droves of innocent people with a machete.

I think someone with an agenda can see any damn thing they want to see. I also think the same agenda will drive them to make a case for what they see, and then the tard loop starts. Its a shit eating monster that grows stronger and more powerful by eating its own poop. Gonna pass, and not read into everything every where. If someone does put some racist whatever in something, let the market decide. Not a politburo.