Quote from: jibbajibba;535275Yeah but I can use a 4 year old girl with no powers or skills at all to socially manipulate the God like PCs

Players being God-like sounds like boring play to me.  And why a 4-year-old girl?  Any NPC should do the trick.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;535445Players being God-like sounds like boring play to me.  And why a 4-year-old girl?  Any NPC should do the trick.

In Amber PCs are godlike but the challenges are totally different. You should give it a go its probably the most immersive and complete roleplaying experience I have ever engaged in. Oh its also diceless if you didn't know. Check out the ADRG forum here for more data.

um I picked a 4 year old girl because the implication was she was about as weak as an NPC can get it could indeed be any NPC but that would kind of miss the point ...

Quote from: B.T.;535103One of the classic D&Disms is that players are never too powerful for the setting.  There are always higher-level monsters to fight.  But what about a system where there aren't always more monsters to crush?  Are there any systems where the PCs are more powerful than what the setting throws at them?

And what would be the point in a GM running this type of game, might as well just say, well since there is no challenge for you guys, game over you win, I'm going to get a beer now, have fun....:rant:

Quote from: flyingcircus;535592And what would be the point in a GM running this type of game, might as well just say, well since there is no challenge for you guys, game over you win, I'm going to get a beer now, have fun....:rant:

It's not that you can't be challenged, it's that it's just more difficult to do so.  Your character might be able to kill a dozen armed men, but that doesn't mean your character can kill two dozen of them.

Quote from: B.T.;535643It's not that you can't be challenged, it's that it's just more difficult to do so.  Your character might be able to kill a dozen armed men, but that doesn't mean your character can kill two dozen of them.

How abstract are you going with that?  24 armed men can be just a concept.  How much flesh wounding are you generating for everyone involved in that fight?

Just what does any of this to with the actual question? Quit trying to move the goalposts BT.

Quote from: flyingcircus;535592And what would be the point in a GM running this type of game, might as well just say, well since there is no challenge for you guys, game over you win, I'm going to get a beer now, have fun....:rant:

I fundamentally disagree with this.

It is perfectly possible to create challenges for the PCs that stem from creatures far less powerful than they are.

A cunning well organised tribe of Kobolds can TKP a group of 5 or 6 5th level PCs easily.

A 0 level human can embroil a court in intrigue and get the PCs arrested for crimes of which they are innocent.

A beautiful cortesan can turn PCs against themselves for their own entertainment.

There are an infinite number of adventures only some of them involve direct combat.

Investigations, Intrigue, Puzzels, exploration, traps all valid

Quote from: jibbajibba;535660I fundamentally disagree with this.

It is perfectly possible to create challenges for the PCs that stem from creatures far less powerful than they are.

A cunning well organised tribe of Kobolds can TKP a group of 5 or 6 5th level PCs easily.

A 0 level human can embroil a court in intrigue and get the PCs arrested for crimes of which they are innocent.

A beautiful cortesan can turn PCs against themselves for their own entertainment.

There are an infinite number of adventures only some of them involve direct combat.

Investigations, Intrigue, Puzzels, exploration, traps all valid

Careful Jibba, that's classic old school modus operendi.

Quote from: Marleycat;535662Careful Jibba, that's classic old school modus operendi.

Nah old school is a bunch of blokes meet in a tavern and an old wizard asks them to go to the old Dungoens of Kept a few miles away to retrieve a golden goblet.
The dungeon has many levels filled with dark creatures of legend, the parties rewards will be that they can kill theings and take their stuff as they go

Of course.... the party will be encouraged to take a long a bunch of peasants as cannon fodder (aka hirelings), the party will include a wizard who can cast buring hands once per day and otherwise could be replaced with a dog that can carry a lantern, everyone in the party will be carrying Adventure Kit #1 identical equipment packages which must include a 10 foot pole, none of the party will have names until they have reached the 3rd level of the Dungeon and the ones that get killed will not be mourned or missed by the others and will be replaced by identikit folks who either just happen to be passing or are drawn from the group of peasant hirelings who though initially acted like dumb beasts of burden will upon being promoted to the rank of party member reveal themselves to be erudite and full of cunning plans.....

what have I missed ?

Quote from: jibbajibba;535664Nah old school is a bunch of blokes meet in a tavern and an old wizard asks them to go to the old Dungoens of Kept a few miles away to retrieve a golden goblet.
The dungeon has many levels filled with dark creatures of legend, the parties rewards will be that they can kill theings and take their stuff as they go

Of course.... the party will be encouraged to take a long a bunch of peasants as cannon fodder (aka hirelings), the party will include a wizard who can cast buring hands once per day and otherwise could be replaced with a dog that can carry a lantern, everyone in the party will be carrying Adventure Kit #1 identical equipment packages which must include a 10 foot pole, none of the party will have names until they have reached the 3rd level of the Dungeon and the ones that get killed will not be mourned or missed by the others and will be replaced by identikit folks who either just happen to be passing or are drawn from the group of peasant hirelings who though initially acted like dumb beasts of burden will upon being promoted to the rank of party member reveal themselves to be erudite and full of cunning plans.....

what have I missed ?

*shakes her head in despair*
You missed the cat!:D

Which of course is the Wizard's familiar and saves the day, silly boy.

I find this thread interesting because it makes me examine my assumptions. I know combat prowess isn't all their is in the game, but it sometimes takes a moment to reflect on other ways to confound characters.

 I've had players enjoy games where no combat occurs and they deal with such situations of "weaker" foils to their basic effectiveness level and made it fun, but I've run them without thinking on those elements, just throw it in and see what happens.

Quote from: Silverlion;535673I find this thread interesting because it makes me examine my assumptions. I know combat prowess isn't all their is in the game, but it sometimes takes a moment to reflect on other ways to confound characters.

 I've had players enjoy games where no combat occurs and they deal with such situations of "weaker" foils to their basic effectiveness level and made it fun, but I've run them without thinking on those elements, just throw it in and see what happens.

That's old school:) Just  have the environment do it's thing regardless of the player's decisions. To put it new school, simulation. What would these characters do if they are real and the environment they're in is real.Classic old school. It's not about realism but about simulation of realism within the parameters of the chosen setting.

As to the OP, I suppose the game you would be looking at that you can do this in would be EXALTED...Even though I personally hate this game books structure and design, I couldn't find anything were it should have been when we tried to play it, so we got rid of it.

I didn't bother responding because I assume you strictly meant demigods wandering their desmesne. But now that you limit it to killing 12 men, but not necessarily 24, that does give a more reasonable perspective. So I get that it's at least OK to be limited by sheer numbers.

However, what are you looking for exactly? There's WW games where you're crazy powerful within your book. There's nastier things out there, but on average you'll be pretty frightening enough to take out 12 men yourself. Or are you looking for something like In Nomine (or INS/MV) where celestials are pretty much at the top of the heap, barring other stronger celestials like yourself. Or are you interested in walking avatars playing in a campaign sandbox -- as if it was a real child's sandbox.

What sort of scope are you talking about?