Thing is. D&D Started off with races not having any disadvantages or advantages for stats. Only some racial advantages like immune to sleep, better at finding secret passages, etc

That carried over through B, BX, BECMI and RC.

Normally I'd say that WOTC moving away from race stat mods was a good thing, or at least a callback.

But we all know they did it for every wrong reason possible.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMSo, I take that to mean, yes and no.

D&D is still a good game, including current 5E.  But, the past year or two have seen some weird and openly greed based developments in the D&D brand.  So, stick to what we have, but nothing from here on out seems like a good product.

Something along those lines?

I say this as it is become quite clear, almost everywhere on the internet at this point, that D&D 6E is going to be boycotted by people in the know. 

I agree with this I might add.  Like I said, I never had an attachment to the brand from day one, so I'm an outsider looking in, watching the implosion with detached fascination.

The bottom line is this.  I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online.  There is no positive buzz about this one.

First, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.

Second, I'm not sure if there's a literal boycott in any organized sense; it's just going to be a bunch of people who will not be interested in getting it.

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 31, 2024, 12:46:46 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMThe bottom line is this.  I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online.  There is no positive buzz about this one.

WotC paid off a bunch of the big Youtube D&D content creators and gave them early access to start shilling. So it's there. A few of the Channels I even had a positive opinion of took the money and access and are out here singing 6e's Praises now.

I suspect that pretty much any of those channels are ones you should not have had a positive opinion of to begin with.

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on July 31, 2024, 01:34:49 PMI have noticed this for a while. I like to play as Tieflings, I like the sort of archetype they represent. I don't want to have races that amount to different skins.

Well, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 31, 2024, 12:32:00 PM

Quote from: zircher on July 31, 2024, 11:02:20 AMThe 5e cos-play theory hold true since you can have no legs and full mobility in the game.  :-D

Flumph PCs have always allowed this.

Flumphed-up GMs allow this.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:02:10 AM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on July 31, 2024, 01:34:49 PMI have noticed this for a while. I like to play as Tieflings, I like the sort of archetype they represent. I don't want to have races that amount to different skins.

Well, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.

Wait...aren't wonderful people the true abominations?

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.

Wrong!

They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.

Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.

The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:02:10 AMWell, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.

Tieflings to begin with in Planescape were not either and had the full range of personalaties. They also had a very broad range of appearance and some looked more like humans, elves or half-elves.

wotc sucked all the subtlety out of the Tiefling. And about everything else.

Quote from: Omega on August 02, 2024, 01:03:24 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.

Wrong!

They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.

Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.

The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.

That sounds like a significantly bigger difference than the changes between AD&D vs 2e. I guess I'll call this new game "6e" then, no matter what Hasbro is calling it.

This new game is 6e.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on August 02, 2024, 11:05:09 AM

Quote from: Omega on August 02, 2024, 01:03:24 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.

Wrong!

They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.

Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.

The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.

That sounds like a significantly bigger difference than the changes between AD&D vs 2e. I guess I'll call this new game "6e" then, no matter what Hasbro is calling it.

This new game is 6e.

Get your 6E on (go 'head be gone with it)

There may be no "official" boycott, but de-facto for me and many others, I'm largely divorced from the brand entirely.

I don't think it really matters, and it hasn't mattered in any meaningful way other than the brand has mutated into something unrecognizable to what would ever occur at my own table. Without resorting to ad-populum fallacies, the game hasn't gotten "better" by my standards. It's gotten worse. I don't think the mechanics are *better*, and the assumed conceits of all their settings have gotten much worse.

The whole notion that the brand itself matters, at least around these parts, only matters for three reasons:

1) people that publish OSR (and other) games believe they can capture consumers on the fringe of the WotC, that finally get tired of the dogshit they're eating. This is, to me, the most legitimate reason to care, if only to serve one's self and possibly retain players in the hobby.

2) people that rage at what DnD has become, and simply haven't realized that it died a long time ago. They need to become people in the first category or move on.

3) The real deniers that *know* WotC has turned DnD into dogshit, but either can't let it go because they're just a player/blind consumer or they actually have hope it'll be great again (if it comes from WotC - it won't).

Meanwhile WotC will march out their politically motivated drek-laden shit-designs. I still maintain "who cares?" unless you're in the #1 category? This will only continue - so go buy/play/run games as adjacent to DnD as possible and you'll realized you *can* have your cake and eat it too.

If you're a player that feels trapped because GM's around you only run 5e - then it's time to put your big-boy pants on start GMing the games you want to play in and show those around you how its done. <--- this is what the hobby needs.

IT DOESN'T MATTER if the hordes of tourist players hang on the tiny genitals of 5e and WotC. It matters that you know better and do something about it and go play good things. Get your DnD fix with other editions, go buy some OSR stuff, or go further afield. It's all right there. The Golden Age is not with WotC. They're about to go Red Nails and slam the gates shut.
 

I thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself.  If you can't do that, why play one?

Quote from: David Johansen on August 02, 2024, 07:30:38 PMI thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself.  If you can't do that, why play one?

Exactly.
The answer to your question these days is something like the people who call themselves "non-binary" so they can claim LGBTQ++ status without having to change their body or sexual proclivities. It's a fashion statement.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 03, 2024, 09:02:07 AM

Quote from: David Johansen on August 02, 2024, 07:30:38 PMI thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself.  If you can't do that, why play one?

Exactly.
The answer to your question these days is something like the people who call themselves "non-binary" so they can claim LGBTQ++ status without having to change their body or sexual proclivities. It's a fashion statement.

Except thats not how they were in the original. Tieflings were weirdly the most "normal" of the oddball races in 2e and in the original books were not much different from half-elves. As noted before. Some could pass for human or elf at a glance as their otherworldly bits were not as prominent.

If anything wotc took away their variety and turned them into angsty outcasts.

Yes, that's exactly what I say in the video!