Every race in nu-D&D is just a human and cosplay. "Equity"is to blame, as well as the idea that "humans represent white people", but it's also about the destruction of the heroic ideals.
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Pundit, question.
Do you like D&D, or have you given up on that game?
I never had an attachment to it as I played Palladium.
My guess is that writing your own games means you prefer your stuff over everything else?
D&D is the big name, in the RPG industry.
They are trying to give everyone what they want, except for the old fans that funded D&D for most of the last 50 years. What a great plan, for long term success.
This is one of those "in theory" situations. In theory, I have no problem with a background as a miner giving you +1 strength, or even potentially better night-vision. My own setting includes something kind of like that. I also have no problem in theory with races not having mechanical differences, at least if I was running a very rules-light, non-simulationist game. If I was patching races into something like Barbarians of Lemuria, I probably wouldn't give them stat differences, just because the stat range in that game is so narrow.
You don't need attribute differences to have non-humans be non-human, at least not anywhere near as much as you need good roleplaying. Good roleplaying, of course, is in short supply. I've also never seen game statistics successfully enforce playing to type on gamers. Usually the most they achieve is to encourage min-maxing.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 30, 2024, 08:03:52 PMPundit, question.
Do you like D&D, or have you given up on that game?
I never had an attachment to it as I played Palladium.
My guess is that writing your own games means you prefer your stuff over everything else?
My stuff is OSR, so it is D&D-based.
So, I take that to mean, yes and no.
D&D is still a good game, including current 5E. But, the past year or two have seen some weird and openly greed based developments in the D&D brand. So, stick to what we have, but nothing from here on out seems like a good product.
Something along those lines?
I say this as it is become quite clear, almost everywhere on the internet at this point, that D&D 6E is going to be boycotted by people in the know.
I agree with this I might add. Like I said, I never had an attachment to the brand from day one, so I'm an outsider looking in, watching the implosion with detached fascination.
The bottom line is this. I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online. There is no positive buzz about this one.
The 5e cos-play theory hold true since you can have no legs and full mobility in the game. :-D
Quote from: zircher on July 31, 2024, 11:02:20 AMThe 5e cos-play theory hold true since you can have no legs and full mobility in the game. :-D
Flumph PCs have always allowed this.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMThe bottom line is this. I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online. There is no positive buzz about this one.
WotC paid off a bunch of the big Youtube D&D content creators and gave them early access to start shilling. So it's there. A few of the Channels I even had a positive opinion of took the money and access and are out here singing 6e's Praises now.
Sorry to derail this as a critique of D&D6E as a whole.
As for this topic of races having no negatives, that's not a new thing.
I know plenty of gamers who won't accept any downsides. They only play to win. We call them Munchkins now, but I don't see this term used as much. It might be going out of style.
However, even I thought of elves and dwarves limits being based on level caps was odd. Old D&D is good, but stuff like that is why I don't say it was great.
In Palladium the downside of playing non-human was two-fold. Elves and dwarves were cultures in decline. They don't even have their own homelands anymore.
Also, there is open racism in the game lore. Not everywhere, but enough that non-humans would be excluded in human territory, and vice versus. An Orc might not be allowed entry into a human village, or even attacked on site by a human village that gets raided by orc bands.
That sort of thing isn't considered OK anymore by a lot of authors or players. I think it's a good source of story and tension. Also, it is make believe, so let's pretend that our world is great, but this game world isn't.
I have noticed this for a while. I like to play as Tieflings, I like the sort of archetype they represent. I don't want to have races that amount to different skins.
The bullshit about underdark races not getting negatives in sunlight is one that we are ignoring.
Beyond that you could create a custom race with no negatives back in Xanthar's. All WOTC did was nerf other races to bring those with negatives in line with the rest.
Big MEH.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 01:17:32 PMI know plenty of gamers who won't accept any downsides. They only play to win. We call them Munchkins now, but I don't see this term used as much. It might be going out of style.
That's because that's not what Munchkin means, at least in any context I've ever seen. Munchkins don't hate negatives; they love negatives when they can be used to create bonuses. They invented the concept of "dump stats." A Munchkin will use point buy to stat their PC with 16,16,16,8,8,8 (3 negative stats) in order to maximize the stats they "use." Today they are more often called "optimizers" (because it's less negative and because there's an SJG "Munchkin" game), but the sentiment is the same. They
loved racial bonuses and negatives, especially since the negatives usually came with larger-than-normal benefits. So that might explain your confusion. The problem isn't munchkins/optimizers; it's modern snowflake gamers who must always be the center of attention and never lose...
Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMSo, I take that to mean, yes and no.
D&D is still a good game, including current 5E. But, the past year or two have seen some weird and openly greed based developments in the D&D brand. So, stick to what we have, but nothing from here on out seems like a good product.
Something along those lines?
I say this as it is become quite clear, almost everywhere on the internet at this point, that D&D 6E is going to be boycotted by people in the know.
I agree with this I might add. Like I said, I never had an attachment to the brand from day one, so I'm an outsider looking in, watching the implosion with detached fascination.
The bottom line is this. I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online. There is no positive buzz about this one.
Oh there are popular buzz for it on boards controlled by leftard community monitors. Seriously if anyone wants to understand how bad DnD Beyond board moderators are, IM me, I'll show you some duzies of moderator overreach, hell one made it up to Clownfish. The moderators don't allow people to talk. I literally striked because they have a little boy in platemail with a little boy owl bear in his arms as he's swinging on a vine from the big dummmy dumm red dwagon chasing him and I said, that art does not look good, that's a strike. It gets more egregious by their mod team.
With that level of leftard control, you are only going to get a small community of guys who say its all good, its all right, while they don't have spend.
If you want to get an idea of DnD Beyond community that are allowed to post there, search for: "A page from Tuhfet Ul-Mulk, an illustrated" and you'll see a circle jerk of allowed posters on DnD beyond and WotC listens to them for feedback whether they buy anything or not.
They complain about "ablism" while deleting disabilities, double talk Big Brother would be proud of.
Thing is. D&D Started off with races not having any disadvantages or advantages for stats. Only some racial advantages like immune to sleep, better at finding secret passages, etc
That carried over through B, BX, BECMI and RC.
Normally I'd say that WOTC moving away from race stat mods was a good thing, or at least a callback.
But we all know they did it for every wrong reason possible.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMSo, I take that to mean, yes and no.
D&D is still a good game, including current 5E. But, the past year or two have seen some weird and openly greed based developments in the D&D brand. So, stick to what we have, but nothing from here on out seems like a good product.
Something along those lines?
I say this as it is become quite clear, almost everywhere on the internet at this point, that D&D 6E is going to be boycotted by people in the know.
I agree with this I might add. Like I said, I never had an attachment to the brand from day one, so I'm an outsider looking in, watching the implosion with detached fascination.
The bottom line is this. I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online. There is no positive buzz about this one.
First, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.
Second, I'm not sure if there's a literal boycott in any organized sense; it's just going to be a bunch of people who will not be interested in getting it.
Quote from: Orphan81 on July 31, 2024, 12:46:46 PMQuote from: weirdguy564 on July 31, 2024, 09:22:06 AMThe bottom line is this. I have not seen anything positive about D&D 6E by literally anybody online. There is no positive buzz about this one.
WotC paid off a bunch of the big Youtube D&D content creators and gave them early access to start shilling. So it's there. A few of the Channels I even had a positive opinion of took the money and access and are out here singing 6e's Praises now.
I suspect that pretty much any of those channels are ones you should not have had a positive opinion of to begin with.
Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on July 31, 2024, 01:34:49 PMI have noticed this for a while. I like to play as Tieflings, I like the sort of archetype they represent. I don't want to have races that amount to different skins.
Well, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.
Quote from: HappyDaze on July 31, 2024, 12:32:00 PMQuote from: zircher on July 31, 2024, 11:02:20 AMThe 5e cos-play theory hold true since you can have no legs and full mobility in the game. :-D
Flumph PCs have always allowed this.
Flumphed-up GMs allow this.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:02:10 AMQuote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on July 31, 2024, 01:34:49 PMI have noticed this for a while. I like to play as Tieflings, I like the sort of archetype they represent. I don't want to have races that amount to different skins.
Well, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.
Wait...aren't wonderful people the true abominations?
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.
Wrong!
They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.
Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.
The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:02:10 AMWell, you are truly shit out of luck if your go-to non-human race was tieflings, and you wanted the real drama of it. Now they're just wonderful people who aren't at all abominations.
Tieflings to begin with in Planescape were not either and had the full range of personalaties. They also had a very broad range of appearance and some looked more like humans, elves or half-elves.
wotc sucked all the subtlety out of the Tiefling. And about everything else.
Quote from: Omega on August 02, 2024, 01:03:24 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.
Wrong!
They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.
Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.
The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.
That sounds like a significantly bigger difference than the changes between AD&D vs 2e. I guess I'll call this new game "6e" then, no matter what Hasbro is calling it.
This new game is 6e.
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on August 02, 2024, 11:05:09 AMQuote from: Omega on August 02, 2024, 01:03:24 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on August 01, 2024, 08:00:12 AMFirst, they're not calling it "6e", and rightly so because it's really just 5e with a few add-ons and a bunch of important stuff removed for political reasons.
Wrong!
They have totally changed every aspect showcased in the previews so far.
Races no longer have stat bonuses.
Backgrounds now have stat bonuses.
Every class has been heavily changed and the 6e core PHB presents a different spread drawing from bits of Xanithar and Tasha and dropping several as well.
Weapons have been changed.
Spells.
Class progression.
The new PCs will be stronger than the 5e and it is very not backwards compatible as wotc is pushing so hard.
That sounds like a significantly bigger difference than the changes between AD&D vs 2e. I guess I'll call this new game "6e" then, no matter what Hasbro is calling it.
This new game is 6e.
Get your 6E on (go 'head be gone with it)
There may be no "official" boycott, but de-facto for me and many others, I'm largely divorced from the brand entirely.
I don't think it really matters, and it hasn't mattered in any meaningful way other than the brand has mutated into something unrecognizable to what would ever occur at my own table. Without resorting to ad-populum fallacies, the game hasn't gotten "better" by my standards. It's gotten worse. I don't think the mechanics are *better*, and the assumed conceits of all their settings have gotten much worse.
The whole notion that the brand itself matters, at least around these parts, only matters for three reasons:
1) people that publish OSR (and other) games believe they can capture consumers on the fringe of the WotC, that finally get tired of the dogshit they're eating. This is, to me, the most legitimate reason to care, if only to serve one's self and possibly retain players in the hobby.
2) people that rage at what DnD has become, and simply haven't realized that it died a long time ago. They need to become people in the first category or move on.
3) The real deniers that *know* WotC has turned DnD into dogshit, but either can't let it go because they're just a player/blind consumer or they actually have hope it'll be great again (if it comes from WotC - it won't).
Meanwhile WotC will march out their politically motivated drek-laden shit-designs. I still maintain "who cares?" unless you're in the #1 category? This will only continue - so go buy/play/run games as adjacent to DnD as possible and you'll realized you *can* have your cake and eat it too.
If you're a player that feels trapped because GM's around you only run 5e - then it's time to put your big-boy pants on start GMing the games you want to play in and show those around you how its done. <--- this is what the hobby needs.
IT DOESN'T MATTER if the hordes of tourist players hang on the tiny genitals of 5e and WotC. It matters that you know better and do something about it and go play good things. Get your DnD fix with other editions, go buy some OSR stuff, or go further afield. It's all right there. The Golden Age is not with WotC. They're about to go Red Nails and slam the gates shut.
I thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself. If you can't do that, why play one?
Quote from: David Johansen on August 02, 2024, 07:30:38 PMI thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself. If you can't do that, why play one?
Exactly.
The answer to your question these days is something like the people who call themselves "non-binary" so they can claim LGBTQ++ status without having to change their body or sexual proclivities. It's a fashion statement.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 03, 2024, 09:02:07 AMQuote from: David Johansen on August 02, 2024, 07:30:38 PMI thought the whole point of playing a Tiefling was to play an abominable outcast and mope around feeling sorry for yourself. If you can't do that, why play one?
Exactly.
The answer to your question these days is something like the people who call themselves "non-binary" so they can claim LGBTQ++ status without having to change their body or sexual proclivities. It's a fashion statement.
Except thats not how they were in the original. Tieflings were weirdly the most "normal" of the oddball races in 2e and in the original books were not much different from half-elves. As noted before. Some could pass for human or elf at a glance as their otherworldly bits were not as prominent.
If anything wotc took away their variety and turned them into angsty outcasts.
Yes, that's exactly what I say in the video!
I'm not boycotting it. I just have no need for it and no interest in it so I am not going to buy it. It's not a political statement. It's just a product I don't need or want.
Also why buy a new edition that they will just replace in 5 years as theres no way wotc will wait as long as they did with 5e again.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 05, 2024, 04:12:44 AMYes, that's exactly what I say in the video!
Yes and you did not "uh" as much in this one as some others.
Quote from: Omega on August 05, 2024, 07:46:35 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on August 05, 2024, 04:12:44 AMYes, that's exactly what I say in the video!
Yes and you did not "uh" as much in this one as some others.
My "uh" rate varies.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 06, 2024, 06:43:59 AMQuote from: Omega on August 05, 2024, 07:46:35 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on August 05, 2024, 04:12:44 AMYes, that's exactly what I say in the video!
Yes and you did not "uh" as much in this one as some others.
My "uh" rate varies.
As I've noted before. In your vids once you get worked up and into a subject the "uh"ing vanishes. Its when you lose steam or are just working up to something that you uh more. Sometimes lots more.
True.
Is it considered a boycott if you just don't want to spend money on something that won't have any value to you?
We got rid of racial penalties a long time ago. Mathematically it's pretty easy to make everything a bonus.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2024, 10:35:41 AMIs it considered a boycott if you just don't want to spend money on something that won't have any value to you?
No. That's just a personal choice. It only becomes a boycott when it becomes organized, or promoted through an organized effort.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2024, 10:35:41 AMIs it considered a boycott if you just don't want to spend money on something that won't have any value to you?
Saw a thread on Reddit where some moron was trying to claim that not wanting to mov to Fake edition was a DM "Banning material!" and that this was the sign of a bad DM!
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 09, 2024, 02:41:21 PMWe got rid of racial penalties a long time ago. Mathematically it's pretty easy to make everything a bonus.
OD&D and the B line of D&D did not have any race stat bonuses or penalties.
Quote from: Omega on August 09, 2024, 09:31:13 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on August 09, 2024, 10:35:41 AMIs it considered a boycott if you just don't want to spend money on something that won't have any value to you?
Saw a thread on Reddit where some moron was trying to claim that not wanting to mov to Fake edition was a DM "Banning material!" and that this was the sign of a bad DM!
Of all the things that I dislike about Hasbro's influence on D&D, the tacit encouragement of D&D game play as becoming a member of some kind of cult is the biggest offender. It started with their Organized Play program and has spread like a cancer along with wokeness.
Quote from: Omega on August 09, 2024, 09:32:46 PMQuote from: deadDMwalking on August 09, 2024, 02:41:21 PMWe got rid of racial penalties a long time ago. Mathematically it's pretty easy to make everything a bonus.
OD&D and the B line of D&D did not have any race stat bonuses or penalties.
Ah, but race as class is wacist.....
Quote from: Omega on August 09, 2024, 09:32:46 PMQuote from: deadDMwalking on August 09, 2024, 02:41:21 PMWe got rid of racial penalties a long time ago. Mathematically it's pretty easy to make everything a bonus.
OD&D and the B line of D&D did not have any race stat bonuses or penalties.
In the case of the basic/expert rules that was because it had race-as-class.
I understand why people dislike this; me, personally, I like the idea that I'm not being "sub-optimal" by wanting to play an Orc that's a Wizard. As far as stats go, It helps that they're not tied to race so you can have more customization options to viably create whatever concept you have in your head (not like 5e needs help being easier)
That said, race/ancestry has to mean SOMETHING so, I'd hope that they do offer some type of different bonuses/penalties/unique abilities/options to help them stand-out.
Quote from: RPGPundit on August 10, 2024, 01:19:51 AMQuote from: Omega on August 09, 2024, 09:32:46 PMQuote from: deadDMwalking on August 09, 2024, 02:41:21 PMWe got rid of racial penalties a long time ago. Mathematically it's pretty easy to make everything a bonus.
OD&D and the B line of D&D did not have any race stat bonuses or penalties.
In the case of the basic/expert rules that was because it had race-as-class.
Yes, but they still didnt have any race stat bonuses because the B line was following more the OD&D rules.
That carried over to BECMI and RC.