Basically what the tin says, for my Cyberpunk game I've been toying with the idea of using race/species so far I have Human and Simulant, I might include some Genepunk so maybe NuGene could be in it.

So I'm wondering, without magic, without making Dwarves but not Dwarves a la Shadowrun, have you used races in your Cyberpunk games? and which ones?

Personally. No. Just type designations.
Human
Cyborg
Android
Robot
Mutant
Genemod
and so on. Mainly because the extras are just manufactured or modded individuals rather than a species or "race".

No one cares what you are. Just how many shots it takes to put you down.

Quote from: Omega on March 25, 2021, 12:06:29 AM
Personally. No. Just type designations.
Human
Cyborg
Android
Robot
Mutant
Genemod
and so on. Mainly because the extras are just manufactured or modded individuals rather than a species or "race".

No one cares what you are. Just how many shots it takes to put you down.

What's the difference between Human and Cyborg? Android would be the simulant right? Robot... Not sure about that one. Mutant, yes I can see this. Genemod would be my NuGene Made by genetic editing correct?

No, but that's an interesting idear.

I played Interface Zero 2.0 and it had races (Savage Worlds rules).

I have a cyberpunk setting in the back-burner from ages ago that dealt with genetic engineering and featured various "races" representing different mutant classifications based around the different models of mutant that were manufactured in the world. Some of the classifications I had worked out included:

Human
Cyborg (people with military grade mods had to register them and were legally classified as "cyborg")
Enviro-adaptive (mutants generically engineered to survive hostile or low gravity environments for arctic, deep sea or early space colonization)
Hybrids (human-animal chimeras developed as early experimental models to help crack genetic engineering, now largely considered "freaks" even by mutant standards)
Hyper-Metabolic (super soldiers with enhanced physical attributes)
Hyper-Sapient (super intelligent mutants)
Psychic (rare and poorly understood mutants who accidentally developed psychic abilities that researchers never quite managed to successfully reproduce)

I think I might have come up with one or two more, but drawing a blank now. But basically the idea was that different "models" of mutants were designed with different purposes in mind to fulfill a variety of functions. And each model serves as a different "race" for game purposes and is kept track in a government data base under different "classifications" so the authorities could know WTF they were dealing with if they had to track one of these mutants down or deal with them if they got unruly.

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2021, 01:06:16 AM
I have a cyberpunk setting in the back-burner from ages ago that dealt with genetic engineering and featured various "races" representing different mutant classifications based around the different models of mutant that were manufactured in the world. Some of the classifications I had worked out included:

Human
Cyborg (people with military grade mods had to register them and were legally classified as "cyborg")
Enviro-adaptive (mutants generically engineered to survive hostile or low gravity environments for arctic, deep sea or early space colonization)
Hybrids (human-animal chimeras developed as early experimental models to help crack genetic engineering, now largely considered "freaks" even by mutant standards)
Hyper-Metabolic (super soldiers with enhanced physical attributes)
Hyper-Sapient (super intelligent mutants)
Psychic (rare and poorly understood mutants who accidentally developed psychic abilities that researchers never quite managed to successfully reproduce)

I think I might have come up with one or two more, but drawing a blank now. But basically the idea was that different "models" of mutants were designed with different purposes in mind to fulfill a variety of functions. And each model serves as a different "race" for game purposes and is kept track in a government data base under different "classifications" so the authorities could know WTF they were dealing with if they had to track one of these mutants down or deal with them if they got unruly.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, your mutant is my NuGene concept butt better fleshed out (much better).

I guess your Human is akin to my NotCh (Not Chipped), who are all wanderers living in the badlands between the sprawls. Everybody born in a sprawl is chipped at birth, removing the chip is illegal, it allows the corporation to track you, payment, collect credits when you buy stuff, etc.

Besides the street urchins almost everybody in the sprawl has at least one piece of cybernetic augmentation. NuGenes can't but I haven't been able to come up with a reason that makes sense in-game.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 12:17:15 AM
What's the difference between Human and Cyborg? Android would be the simulant right? Robot... Not sure about that one. Mutant, yes I can see this. Genemod would be my NuGene Made by genetic editing correct?

Cyborg has been used as a catchall term so depending on the setting a cyborg is...
C3PO. The T-100. Steve Austin and the Borg, etc. Or pretty much every life form on earth in WW's D20 modern Gamma World setting as everything is infused with nanomachines and and some are varying degrees of man-machine combination or other weirdness up to and including people who were in waldos at the time of the end and are stuck in those bodies now.

Robot is another one. Tech induced zombies. AIs in some ambulatory shell, even non-sentient tools. Seems to have fallen out of use for trendy new terms.

Same for android. C3PO. Any given vaugly human-looking robot. Artificially grown flesh and blood humans. Artificially grown genmod humans like the replicants. Mixes of flesh and machine like the Cybermen, older Gamma World Faceless Ones, T-100s and so on. Ghost in the shell really plays with these in all sorts of forms.

Mutants being natural or artificial.

Genemods being anything from vat grown people to vat grown augments, to people with biomods instead of cybernetics. TSR's old Chromosome setting for AE was a biopunk setting where biomodding of all sorts was at the fore rather than cybernetics.

Cyborg and Android are sometimes used practialy interchangeably. One persons going to say cyborg and mean a machine piloted flesh body. Anothers going to say android and mean a flesh piloted machine body.

Quote from: Omega on March 25, 2021, 04:41:06 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 12:17:15 AM
What's the difference between Human and Cyborg? Android would be the simulant right? Robot... Not sure about that one. Mutant, yes I can see this. Genemod would be my NuGene Made by genetic editing correct?

Cyborg has been used as a catchall term so depending on the setting a cyborg is...
C3PO. The T-100. Steve Austin and the Borg, etc. Or pretty much every life form on earth in WW's D20 modern Gamma World setting as everything is infused with nanomachines and and some are varying degrees of man-machine combination or other weirdness up to and including people who were in waldos at the time of the end and are stuck in those bodies now.

Robot is another one. Tech induced zombies. AIs in some ambulatory shell, even non-sentient tools. Seems to have fallen out of use for trendy new terms.

Same for android. C3PO. Any given vaugly human-looking robot. Artificially grown flesh and blood humans. Artificially grown genmod humans like the replicants. Mixes of flesh and machine like the Cybermen, older Gamma World Faceless Ones, T-100s and so on. Ghost in the shell really plays with these in all sorts of forms.

Mutants being natural or artificial.

Genemods being anything from vat grown people to vat grown augments, to people with biomods instead of cybernetics. TSR's old Chromosome setting for AE was a biopunk setting where biomodding of all sorts was at the fore rather than cybernetics.

Cyborg and Android are sometimes used practialy interchangeably. One persons going to say cyborg and mean a machine piloted flesh body. Anothers going to say android and mean a flesh piloted machine body.

IMHO:

Human = Not augmented in anyway
Cyborg = Human with cybernetic augmentations
Android = Human looking autonomous/thinking mechanical machine, some programming *.
Simulant = Human looking (or any living creature actually) autonomous/thinking biological machine, vat grown, bio mods, some programming *.
Robot = Non-Autonomous machine, has to follow a program.
Your GeneMod = living thing with biological augmentations.

As far as all those go, Robot is a no-no for PCs IMHO.

Android/Simulant, can be PCs, have to be very rare, because they are made with some programming, so the player needs one that somehow got free of the programming. Does that mean the 3 Laws? or only the programming that made it obey it's maker?

Your GeneMod, bought mods and or mods made to make a better Soldier, underwater welder, etc. or mods to fulfill a niche in the market (CatGirls?)

Edited to add: You mean Kromosome?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 01:27:05 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2021, 01:06:16 AM
I have a cyberpunk setting in the back-burner from ages ago that dealt with genetic engineering and featured various "races" representing different mutant classifications based around the different models of mutant that were manufactured in the world. Some of the classifications I had worked out included:

Human
Cyborg (people with military grade mods had to register them and were legally classified as "cyborg")
Enviro-adaptive (mutants generically engineered to survive hostile or low gravity environments for arctic, deep sea or early space colonization)
Hybrids (human-animal chimeras developed as early experimental models to help crack genetic engineering, now largely considered "freaks" even by mutant standards)
Hyper-Metabolic (super soldiers with enhanced physical attributes)
Hyper-Sapient (super intelligent mutants)
Psychic (rare and poorly understood mutants who accidentally developed psychic abilities that researchers never quite managed to successfully reproduce)

I think I might have come up with one or two more, but drawing a blank now. But basically the idea was that different "models" of mutants were designed with different purposes in mind to fulfill a variety of functions. And each model serves as a different "race" for game purposes and is kept track in a government data base under different "classifications" so the authorities could know WTF they were dealing with if they had to track one of these mutants down or deal with them if they got unruly.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, your mutant is my NuGene concept butt better fleshed out (much better).

I guess your Human is akin to my NotCh (Not Chipped), who are all wanderers living in the badlands between the sprawls. Everybody born in a sprawl is chipped at birth, removing the chip is illegal, it allows the corporation to track you, payment, collect credits when you buy stuff, etc.

Besides the street urchins almost everybody in the sprawl has at least one piece of cybernetic augmentation. NuGenes can't but I haven't been able to come up with a reason that makes sense in-game.

I like the term NuGene as an in-game name for mutants. Sounds very corporate marketing speak. I never came up with an alternate name for mutants in my setting, partly because it slipped my mind, but also partly because mutants are not very well regarded by humans (there was a war between them, and there are still mutant terrorist groups), and the word "mutant" has pejorative connotations to it, so it works (also, the setting's name is simply "Cyber Mutants").

Almost everyone in my world is chipped because mutant registration was passed into law as a result of the war with mutants, and they use the chips to track registration data, so cops can know if they're dealing with a mutant (and what kind of abilities they have) whenever they stop someone. Cyborgs got lumped in, cuz they're dangerous to, plus when has the government stopped itself when moving into infringe on people's liberties? Most non-military people don't have implants, though, with the exception of cheap chopchop limb replacements (for people who actually lost limbs), cuz most people are too poor to afford high grade enhancements.

The only people who don't have chips are usually criminals, mutant terrorists or the people who live out in the urban wastelands that exist between the mega cities, which are basically abandoned no-mans lands frequently traveled by huge roving gangs, with a few "Free Communities" in between. But people entering a mega city are expected to have a chip, and will be detained and processed if they don't. People need to have their chips scanned just to pass from sector to sector within the same mega city, so those without need to find alternate ways to slip between sectors, or get a fake chip, which could fail on them (or get flagged) and get them found out.

I never set restrictions for mutants having cyberware, though. I mean, with a name like "Cyber Mutants", how could I?

Overall, this is where cyberpunk slips into gritty transhumanism. Nothing wrong with that, just a specific direction for a setting.

Quote from: RandyB on March 25, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
Overall, this is where cyberpunk slips into gritty transhumanism. Nothing wrong with that, just a specific direction for a setting.

What do you mean? Cyberpunk IS gritty transhumanism.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 03:14:01 PM

Quote from: RandyB on March 25, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
Overall, this is where cyberpunk slips into gritty transhumanism. Nothing wrong with that, just a specific direction for a setting.

What do you mean? Cyberpunk IS gritty transhumanism.

I thought the line was (in part) determined by whether you have to give something up (e.g., "humanity") to gain beyond-human abilities. Most cyberpunk has enhancements with a cost (beyond money & time) while in most transhumanist stories, enhancements have no cost (beyond money & time).

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2021, 02:55:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 01:27:05 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2021, 01:06:16 AM
I have a cyberpunk setting in the back-burner from ages ago that dealt with genetic engineering and featured various "races" representing different mutant classifications based around the different models of mutant that were manufactured in the world. Some of the classifications I had worked out included:

Human
Cyborg (people with military grade mods had to register them and were legally classified as "cyborg")
Enviro-adaptive (mutants generically engineered to survive hostile or low gravity environments for arctic, deep sea or early space colonization)
Hybrids (human-animal chimeras developed as early experimental models to help crack genetic engineering, now largely considered "freaks" even by mutant standards)
Hyper-Metabolic (super soldiers with enhanced physical attributes)
Hyper-Sapient (super intelligent mutants)
Psychic (rare and poorly understood mutants who accidentally developed psychic abilities that researchers never quite managed to successfully reproduce)

I think I might have come up with one or two more, but drawing a blank now. But basically the idea was that different "models" of mutants were designed with different purposes in mind to fulfill a variety of functions. And each model serves as a different "race" for game purposes and is kept track in a government data base under different "classifications" so the authorities could know WTF they were dealing with if they had to track one of these mutants down or deal with them if they got unruly.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, your mutant is my NuGene concept butt better fleshed out (much better).

I guess your Human is akin to my NotCh (Not Chipped), who are all wanderers living in the badlands between the sprawls. Everybody born in a sprawl is chipped at birth, removing the chip is illegal, it allows the corporation to track you, payment, collect credits when you buy stuff, etc.

Besides the street urchins almost everybody in the sprawl has at least one piece of cybernetic augmentation. NuGenes can't but I haven't been able to come up with a reason that makes sense in-game.

I like the term NuGene as an in-game name for mutants. Sounds very corporate marketing speak. I never came up with an alternate name for mutants in my setting, partly because it slipped my mind, but also partly because mutants are not very well regarded by humans (there was a war between them, and there are still mutant terrorist groups), and the word "mutant" has pejorative connotations to it, so it works (also, the setting's name is simply "Cyber Mutants").

Almost everyone in my world is chipped because mutant registration was passed into law as a result of the war with mutants, and they use the chips to track registration data, so cops can know if they're dealing with a mutant (and what kind of abilities they have) whenever they stop someone. Cyborgs got lumped in, cuz they're dangerous to, plus when has the government stopped itself when moving into infringe on people's liberties? Most non-military people don't have implants, though, with the exception of cheap chopchop limb replacements (for people who actually lost limbs), cuz most people are too poor to afford high grade enhancements.

The only people who don't have chips are usually criminals, mutant terrorists or the people who live out in the urban wastelands that exist between the mega cities, which are basically abandoned no-mans lands frequently traveled by huge roving gangs, with a few "Free Communities" in between. But people entering a mega city are expected to have a chip, and will be detained and processed if they don't. People need to have their chips scanned just to pass from sector to sector within the same mega city, so those without need to find alternate ways to slip between sectors, or get a fake chip, which could fail on them (or get flagged) and get them found out.

I never set restrictions for mutants having cyberware, though. I mean, with a name like "Cyber Mutants", how could I?

Thanks, lets see if you like this

Android/Simulant : Mechanical or biological machines with free will. both are made.
Human : The poor, who can't afford to get upgrades or a cult?
Cyborg : Those who got chrome upgrades
Splicer : Those who got animal genes spliced into themselves
NuGene : Those who got their human DNA modified to gain X upgrade. Vat grown
Mutant : Those born with a mutation either from non-mutant or mutant parents. Mutations can be either advantageous or disadvantageous.

7 "races" total. You can start as a Human and buy your upgrades into Cyborg or Splicer, NuGene/Android/Simulant are manufactured and Mutants are born.

As for the upgrades, the less obvious the more expensive. But funny enough there're those who want to look chromed or spliced and not because of the price.

Only exception to this are purely cosmetic upgrades, those are cheaper since you get no advantage from them.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 25, 2021, 03:18:08 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 25, 2021, 03:14:01 PM

Quote from: RandyB on March 25, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
Overall, this is where cyberpunk slips into gritty transhumanism. Nothing wrong with that, just a specific direction for a setting.

What do you mean? Cyberpunk IS gritty transhumanism.

I thought the line was (in part) determined by whether you have to give something up (e.g., "humanity") to gain beyond-human abilities. Most cyberpunk has enhancements with a cost (beyond money & time) while in most transhumanist stories, enhancements have no cost (beyond money & time).

Alita Battle Angel is it cyberpunk or transhumanism by that standard?

Also, what's grittier than loosing your "humanity" to become a better lackey for your corporate masters?