Micro-WOTC will name the new system D&D 365.

All digital, subscription, will "work" until suddenly it doesn't.  A lot of people will sign up for it because it is "new" and digital.  Then a lot of the people that sign up will quit for various reasons (not worth the price to them, buggy, etc.) only some of which will be about WotC being run by morons.  This kind of thing has a tendency to snowball, both up and down. It will be almost impossible to tease out the reasons why some people stick and others quit, at least as any kind of percentage.

DirectTV still pulls in money and has a lot of subscribers.  I assume they still make some profit, or they wouldn't be doing it.  However, they aren't killing it the way they were several years ago.  At one point, they were losing hundreds of thousands of subscribers every month.  No one knows for sure the total, but the lost subscriptions has to be in the 10's of millions. It started downhill when AT&T bought them.  How much of that was the "AT&T kills every non-phone thing they acquire because their high-level managers are morons"?  No idea.  How much was it because of the rate increases?  How much was because of increasingly poor service?  How much was because the annoying sales/marketing push?  How much was because the content wasn't all that?  How much of it was the refusal to unbundle key content? 

Many times, someone sticks with a substandard subscription service out of inertia.  If they examined it, they'd drop it, but it is a few dollars every month, and they plod along with it.  Every time the corporation gives a reason to reexamine it, some will quit.  WotC seems to be working overtime to give people reasons to reconsider.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on June 29, 2023, 07:33:53 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 29, 2023, 05:05:52 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.

Yes, I think that most printed D&D books are already being bought on Amazon or other online retailers rather than from WotC or local game stores, which are now few and far between. As long as physical books make money, I see no reason why WotC should stop producing them. However, there might be much more exclusive online content in the future.

Pundit covered that. The three core books will be released as physical copies because these are always the best sellers of any new edition. Content beyond that......... we will have to wait and see who is correct. FRom WOTC's perspective, why sell whole books full of content that don't sell nearly as well as the core for $30 to $50 when they can release it to the VTT in tidbits for $5 here, $10 there, so players will have to pay nearly $200 for the same content in tidbits.

Because a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything literally sold more copies than the entirety of 4e combined? "Don't sell nearly as well" is still "Sells in the top 25 books in the US" for most of these books. It's a massive crapton of money, and a lot of people will not be on their VTT to spend that money and they know that.

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2023, 12:17:27 PM

Because a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything literally sold more copies than the entirety of 4e combined? "Don't sell nearly as well" is still "Sells in the top 25 books in the US" for most of these books. It's a massive crapton of money, and a lot of people will not be on their VTT to spend that money and they know that.

I think that says more about the relative popularity of 5E to 4E than anything else. For an even apples to apples comparison compare Tasha's to Core 5E. 4E was so unpopular that it gave birth to Pathfinder, a game that was basically 3.75 which proceeded to eat 4E's lunch.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 03:33:39 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM
I have no major opinion on the VTT. I've used Roll20 for some past Call of Cthulhu games, but not for D&D.

But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.

You didn't watch the video where they show it?

It's 3D, ALL the players were in the same room with their own laptops, so it either needs a really powerful computer or a really good internet connection since all those laptops will be connected to the same line.

Think WoW but your character isn't animated, even if IT IS 3d. But it does have other animations, like the spells.

I'm aware of the VTT, but I don't know much, and have no experience with such tools and thus no opinion.

My point is that I suspect even with digital rulebooks, there will still be many players of D&D who don't use the VTT. i.e. They play in-person, but use D&DBeyond for their character sheets and rules lookups. They are still sitting around a table. However, when someone needs to look up a spell, instead of flipping through a paper book, they look at their phone and click on that spell on the character sheet and a description comes up.

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.

Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.

Has anyone seen any numbers about how many people play online versus in person these days? I did some googling, but couldn't really come up with anything. I personally play in 2 games a week, both online via Discord + Foundry/Owlbear Rodeo. I'm on a number of different Discords where people arrange groups, and there never seems to be a shortage of people looking. I more than half wonder if WotC hasn't figured out that a substantial portion of the current playerbase games exclusively online. 

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 30, 2023, 02:08:37 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.

Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.

Pretty sure I saw the same thing - just the core.

But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.

Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.

Quote from: tenbones on June 30, 2023, 10:26:29 PM
But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.

Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.

This is where I'm at.  A few months back, I got sick of their shit and boxed up all of my 5e books and mailed them to WOTC HQ in Seattle.  I also wrote them a letter as to why and asked for a refund.

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM

But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.

Everyone is using the free account level.

So you don't use sub-classes, monster races, or feats in your games?  Because you are limited to a single sub-class for every class (so all your fighters must be Champions), no monster races, and a handful of feats using the basic free account (and 3 characters per player).  Or has someone bought all the modules and is sharing it as DM?  Otherwise, your story makes no sense...

Saturday July 1, 2023

Greetings!

I do not care what D&D Beyond does. I require my players to do everything on physical Character Sheets, with real dice, paper, and pencils.
Of course, games played online use the digit BS. I use the digit BS only because with some groups—separated by miles or entire continents—it is thus necessary. Otherwise, I prefer everything face to face, using actual, physical stuff, paper, and dice.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: tenbones on June 30, 2023, 10:26:29 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 30, 2023, 02:08:37 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.

Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.

Pretty sure I saw the same thing - just the core.

But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.

Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.

I hear talk about. But nothing from WotC I can find.

This piece says they may be moving to a hybrid of Physical+Digital. But its a bit rambling and does not back either claims.

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/06/you-cant-buy-physical-only-dd-books-from-wotc-anymore.html

So this may be a Chicken Little scare.

Even so theres still the problem that they are jacking to price to cover the online content.
 
And let us not forget that as of at least Wild Beyond the Witchlight they slipped a DLC into the module. This may be a bigger problem. What if they start selling bools. But parts of the rules are ONLY on Beyond?

I suspect WotC has data that makes them believe the under-30 D&D fans are retarded shut-ins incapable of social interaction and that's a fair assessment BUT why they would want to play a crappy video game - aka  VTT RPGing - vs. playing the newest AAA title is beyond me.

But I don't see them fully abandoning Adventurer's League in-store gaming because its still popular enough and sells lots of core books.

BTW, if they go PDF/POD, they eliminate any concern for print costs and just push those onto the players.

Quote from: Spinachcat on July 02, 2023, 04:39:34 AM
I suspect WotC has data that makes them believe the under-30 D&D fans are retarded shut-ins incapable of social interaction and that's a fair assessment BUT why they would want to play a crappy video game - aka  VTT RPGing - vs. playing the newest AAA title is beyond me.

But I don't see them fully abandoning Adventurer's League in-store gaming because its still popular enough and sells lots of core books.

BTW, if they go PDF/POD, they eliminate any concern for print costs and just push those onto the players.

Yes, that is a possibility. But we can't know for sure what they'll do because the people in charge now are corporate suits that don't really know the hobby all that well. They may just decide that Adventurer's League is not worth the investment.

I think WOTC will continue to publish hardcover books more frequently than people seem to believe. They will always keep the three core books in print, and likely keep them in bookstores and promoted on Amazon. These books have made them the bulk of their money and will continue to do so.

But as many have said, the emphasis for new content will be for the digital platform, dribbled out on a weekly or monthly basis to justify the ongoing subscription prices. However, my bet is that WOTC will periodically take this digital content and repackage it as a "new" hardcover supplement—thereby grabbing the cash twice for the same creative effort. True tabletop players won't see everything the digital subscribers will, of course, but periodic "best of" hardcover volumes will keep the D&D tabletop game alive. Because WOTC will have paid for the creation of this content under their digital heading, the actual outlay to produce these hardcover supplements will not be all that high for them—just quick cash grabs every 4-6 months or so.