Is it the end of official published D&D books? It looks like my predictions about WotC were right!
#dnd #ttrpg #osr #wotc #vtt
Hey Pundit :) While I agree with your general assessment of the WOTC strategy there is a factor that you didn't mention. Every digital product and venture that WOTC has been involved with and/or produced has been a steaming pile of crap. So when I hear that WOTC's new grand plan is to move EXCLUSIVELY to digital products, I can't help but laugh and reach for the popcorn. They have a track record of never investing the kind of capital required to produce GOOD digital content because they answer to Hasbro, who doesn't think much of of the whole D&D division and always tightly constrains the budget expecting WOTC to make bricks without straw. This fail is gonna be EPIC. Can't wait to see it.
The digital products are going to be completely subscription based so you'll be hit twice, once to get general access and a second time when you get little upgrades. It's going to sink itself when it's just cheaper to play WoW.
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Yes, I think that most printed D&D books are already being bought on Amazon or other online retailers rather than from WotC or local game stores, which are now few and far between. As long as physical books make money, I see no reason why WotC should stop producing them. However, there might be much more exclusive online content in the future.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 29, 2023, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Yes, I think that most printed D&D books are already being bought on Amazon or other online retailers rather than from WotC or local game stores, which are now few and far between. As long as physical books make money, I see no reason why WotC should stop producing them. However, there might be much more exclusive online content in the future.
Pundit covered that. The three core books will be released as physical copies because these are always the best sellers of any new edition. Content beyond that......... we will have to wait and see who is correct. FRom WOTC's perspective, why sell whole books full of content that don't sell nearly as well as the core for $30 to $50 when they can release it to the VTT in tidbits for $5 here, $10 there, so players will have to pay nearly $200 for the same content in tidbits.
Posted this in the wrong thread...
Does anyone here actually care? This is a serious question. I know *I* don't (not anymore, at least, after all the utter bullshit going on with 5th edition), but some more casual players might, and by casual I mean people who play D&D who aren't flaming forum morons (of any variety, including the OSR ones).
For instance, my buddy and his wife play 5th almost exclusively, and they have a subscription to the online character builder stuff. They really like it and it seems to work for them. But they also have some physical books and PDFs, so if they're forced to go completely to a subscription-based model, I am unsure what they'll do. Maybe it'll make them reconsider? Like what happens if they piss off the wrong person on the Internet and their stuff is revoked; that would put a serious damper on the ability to play.
So while this is retarded as fuck for most of us here, and seems super awesome for the people we typically try to avoid, there is a large segment of more casual gamers that might be on the fence. Do they roll with 100% electronic, or do they give some pushback. Like it or not, this is a massive segment of D&D players, more than anyone here would like to admit. Seems like WotC is gambling that the casual gamer is so used to paying for stuff like Disney+ and microtransactions in phone games that they'll just take this in stride. Honestly, from a marketing perspective, it's not a bad gamble, no matter how much we think it sucks, and I'm inclined to think it'll be a huge cash cow for them.
One of my buddies' sons bought his first RPG book. It was a physical copy of the 5E PHB.
(Yes, I know, but it's all he knows how to play so far. We're working on teaching him other systems. Patience, Daniel-san.)
I really don't think e-books are going to be near as popular as WotC believes.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 29, 2023, 09:58:32 AM
I really don't think e-books are going to be near as popular as WotC believes.
From what I understand as the new model e-books won't be what they are selling. The model seems to be integrated with their proprietary VTT not pdfs that can be used on a tablet at a physical table with meat sacks. If this is the case then they are flipping the bird to all live in person play groups and catering to the VTT crowd. If this turns out to be the actual model then it is the greatest thing since sliced bread for the OSR and secondary book sales market. Players will move away from WOTC's latest turd edition to something else to get their in person gaming fix. By force if not choice since WOTC will be offering nothing they can use without playing on a computer.
I agree with Brad:
As long as they can deliver a semi functional "VTT" they will make money hands over fists.
Most people are used by now to pay for subscriptions even for stuff we used to just buy (Lots of software does this), lots of people are used to microtransactions up the wazoo on their phone games and their console/PC games.
Now, how big is the overlap? Is the majority of 5e players/DMs willing to play "in person" over a lan party? How powerful does your computer need to be to run their BS? If it's online then how much of a lag will it have?
It could very well be a hit on launch and then crumble, it could very well be the money printing machine they expect it to be.
As for caring? As long as they take the majority of the SparkleTrolls to their walled garden I'm hoping they succeed and wishing them bom boyage.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 01:26:50 PM
Most people are used by now to pay for subscriptions even for stuff we used to just buy (Lots of software does this), lots of people are used to microtransactions up the wazoo on their phone games and their console/PC games.
Now, how big is the overlap? Is the majority of 5e players/DMs willing to play "in person" over a lan party? How powerful does your computer need to be to run their BS? If it's online then how much of a lag will it have?
I have no major opinion on the VTT. I've used Roll20 for some past Call of Cthulhu games, but not for D&D.
But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.
Everyone is using the free account level.
I think just the character generator alone is a big deal for WotC. A lot of people are paying for more options.
The big question is how this compares to the old strategy of having splatbooks like The Complete Fighter. RPG companies have long relied on players paying for new character options. My guess: In the past, only the hard-core players bought splatbooks, but now more casual players will buy a few pieces of a splatbook. So the sales will be for less, but a lot more of them.
Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 01:26:50 PM
Most people are used by now to pay for subscriptions even for stuff we used to just buy (Lots of software does this), lots of people are used to microtransactions up the wazoo on their phone games and their console/PC games.
Now, how big is the overlap? Is the majority of 5e players/DMs willing to play "in person" over a lan party? How powerful does your computer need to be to run their BS? If it's online then how much of a lag will it have?
I have no major opinion on the VTT. I've used Roll20 for some past Call of Cthulhu games, but not for D&D.
But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.
Everyone is using the free account level.
I think just the character generator alone is a big deal for WotC. A lot of people are paying for more options.
The big question is how this compares to the old strategy of having splatbooks like The Complete Fighter. RPG companies have long relied on players paying for new character options. My guess: In the past, only the hard-core players bought splatbooks, but now more casual players will buy a few pieces of a splatbook. So the sales will be for less, but a lot more of them.
You didn't watch the video where they show it?
It's 3D, ALL the players were in the same room with their own laptops, so it either needs a really powerful computer or a really good internet connection since all those laptops will be connected to the same line.
Think WoW but your character isn't animated, even if IT IS 3d. But it does have other animations, like the spells.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 03:33:39 PM
You didn't watch the video where they show it?
It's 3D, ALL the players were in the same room with their own laptops, so it either needs a really powerful computer or a really good internet connection since all those laptops will be connected to the same line.
Think WoW but your character isn't animated, even if IT IS 3d. But it does have other animations, like the spells.
Yeah...this is NOT for us, nor geared toward traditional tabletop roleplaying games. It's something different, and it looks like WotC is using D&D as a gateway into the new fabulous super awesome way better than old stuff way only three easy payments of $9.95! Why do they all have to be easy? Why can't one be difficult!?!?
But there has to be a market if they are doing this. They do not care about tabletop, that much is certain, so they must have done the market research and determined there is a critical mass of gamers who will buy into this and make them a lot of money. I guess the analogy would be what happened to old school arcade consoles and arcades. If you actually wanted completion you had to go out in public or at least have a friend over. Now you can play videogames in your mom's basement and never see anyone and you don't need any friends or social skills. Modern videogames killed arcades, and I hate that, but the number$$$ don't lie...
Quote from: Brad on June 29, 2023, 10:15:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 03:33:39 PM
You didn't watch the video where they show it?
It's 3D, ALL the players were in the same room with their own laptops, so it either needs a really powerful computer or a really good internet connection since all those laptops will be connected to the same line.
Think WoW but your character isn't animated, even if IT IS 3d. But it does have other animations, like the spells.
Yeah...this is NOT for us, nor geared toward traditional tabletop roleplaying games. It's something different, and it looks like WotC is using D&D as a gateway into the new fabulous super awesome way better than old stuff way only three easy payments of $9.95! Why do they all have to be easy? Why can't one be difficult!?!?
But there has to be a market if they are doing this. They do not care about tabletop, that much is certain, so they must have done the market research and determined there is a critical mass of gamers who will buy into this and make them a lot of money. I guess the analogy would be what happened to old school arcade consoles and arcades. If you actually wanted completion you had to go out in public or at least have a friend over. Now you can play videogames in your mom's basement and never see anyone and you don't need any friends or social skills. Modern videogames killed arcades, and I hate that, but the number$$$ don't lie...
Oh, I'm sure there's a market, what I'm not so sure is that WotC can deliver something mediocre enough to win a loyal customer base. I mean they are intent on jetissoning most if not all the TTRPG Players, so they need a new demographic, does it exist? Sure.
Can WotC deliver something the doesn't suck monkey balls in order to attract that new demographic? We'll have to wait and see.
Either way, if they succeed or crash and burn I think this is good for the hobby.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on June 29, 2023, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 29, 2023, 09:58:32 AM
I really don't think e-books are going to be near as popular as WotC believes.
From what I understand as the new model e-books won't be what they are selling. The model seems to be integrated with their proprietary VTT not pdfs that can be used on a tablet at a physical table with meat sacks. If this is the case then they are flipping the bird to all live in person play groups and catering to the VTT crowd. If this turns out to be the actual model then it is the greatest thing since sliced bread for the OSR and secondary book sales market. Players will move away from WOTC's latest turd edition to something else to get their in person gaming fix. By force if not choice since WOTC will be offering nothing they can use without playing on a computer.
Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. Which is even MORE absurd.
They are heavily banking on the new crop of gamers not being tech-savvy enough to rip the files to a portable file format (PDF or EPUB would be my suggestion).
Hell of a gamble, in my opinion.
Micro-WOTC will name the new system D&D 365.
All digital, subscription, will "work" until suddenly it doesn't. A lot of people will sign up for it because it is "new" and digital. Then a lot of the people that sign up will quit for various reasons (not worth the price to them, buggy, etc.) only some of which will be about WotC being run by morons. This kind of thing has a tendency to snowball, both up and down. It will be almost impossible to tease out the reasons why some people stick and others quit, at least as any kind of percentage.
DirectTV still pulls in money and has a lot of subscribers. I assume they still make some profit, or they wouldn't be doing it. However, they aren't killing it the way they were several years ago. At one point, they were losing hundreds of thousands of subscribers every month. No one knows for sure the total, but the lost subscriptions has to be in the 10's of millions. It started downhill when AT&T bought them. How much of that was the "AT&T kills every non-phone thing they acquire because their high-level managers are morons"? No idea. How much was it because of the rate increases? How much was because of increasingly poor service? How much was because the annoying sales/marketing push? How much was because the content wasn't all that? How much of it was the refusal to unbundle key content?
Many times, someone sticks with a substandard subscription service out of inertia. If they examined it, they'd drop it, but it is a few dollars every month, and they plod along with it. Every time the corporation gives a reason to reexamine it, some will quit. WotC seems to be working overtime to give people reasons to reconsider.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on June 29, 2023, 07:33:53 AM
Quote from: Rhymer88 on June 29, 2023, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Yes, I think that most printed D&D books are already being bought on Amazon or other online retailers rather than from WotC or local game stores, which are now few and far between. As long as physical books make money, I see no reason why WotC should stop producing them. However, there might be much more exclusive online content in the future.
Pundit covered that. The three core books will be released as physical copies because these are always the best sellers of any new edition. Content beyond that......... we will have to wait and see who is correct. FRom WOTC's perspective, why sell whole books full of content that don't sell nearly as well as the core for $30 to $50 when they can release it to the VTT in tidbits for $5 here, $10 there, so players will have to pay nearly $200 for the same content in tidbits.
Because a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything literally sold more copies than the entirety of 4e combined? "Don't sell nearly as well" is still "Sells in the top 25 books in the US" for most of these books. It's a massive crapton of money, and a lot of people will not be on their VTT to spend that money and they know that.
Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2023, 12:17:27 PM
Because a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything literally sold more copies than the entirety of 4e combined? "Don't sell nearly as well" is still "Sells in the top 25 books in the US" for most of these books. It's a massive crapton of money, and a lot of people will not be on their VTT to spend that money and they know that.
I think that says more about the relative popularity of 5E to 4E than anything else. For an even apples to apples comparison compare Tasha's to Core 5E. 4E was so unpopular that it gave birth to Pathfinder, a game that was basically 3.75 which proceeded to eat 4E's lunch.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 29, 2023, 03:33:39 PM
Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM
I have no major opinion on the VTT. I've used Roll20 for some past Call of Cthulhu games, but not for D&D.
But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.
You didn't watch the video where they show it?
It's 3D, ALL the players were in the same room with their own laptops, so it either needs a really powerful computer or a really good internet connection since all those laptops will be connected to the same line.
Think WoW but your character isn't animated, even if IT IS 3d. But it does have other animations, like the spells.
I'm aware of the VTT, but I don't know much, and have no experience with such tools and thus no opinion.
My point is that I suspect even with digital rulebooks, there will still be many players of D&D who don't use the VTT. i.e. They play in-person, but use D&DBeyond for their character sheets and rules lookups. They are still sitting around a table. However, when someone needs to look up a spell, instead of flipping through a paper book, they look at their phone and click on that spell on the character sheet and a description comes up.
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.
Has anyone seen any numbers about how many people play online versus in person these days? I did some googling, but couldn't really come up with anything. I personally play in 2 games a week, both online via Discord + Foundry/Owlbear Rodeo. I'm on a number of different Discords where people arrange groups, and there never seems to be a shortage of people looking. I more than half wonder if WotC hasn't figured out that a substantial portion of the current playerbase games exclusively online.
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 30, 2023, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.
Pretty sure I saw the same thing - just the core.
But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.
Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.
Quote from: tenbones on June 30, 2023, 10:26:29 PM
But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.
Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.
This is where I'm at. A few months back, I got sick of their shit and boxed up all of my 5e books and mailed them to WOTC HQ in Seattle. I also wrote them a letter as to why and asked for a refund.
Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2023, 02:07:42 PM
But I think the digital will also have influence on purely in-person games for the character generator and other helper tools. Most of my players made their PCs using D&DBeyond, and one of them accesses her character sheet on her phone while she plays. When she does actions, she generally just clicks on the attack/ability/etc to do the roll. The others print out their sheets and roll physical dice, but they still go back to the D&DBeyond to level up.
Everyone is using the free account level.
So you don't use sub-classes, monster races, or feats in your games? Because you are limited to a single sub-class for every class (so all your fighters must be Champions), no monster races, and a handful of feats using the basic free account (and 3 characters per player). Or has someone bought all the modules and is sharing it as DM? Otherwise, your story makes no sense...
Saturday July 1, 2023
Greetings!
I do not care what D&D Beyond does. I require my players to do everything on physical Character Sheets, with real dice, paper, and pencils.
Of course, games played online use the digit BS. I use the digit BS only because with some groups—separated by miles or entire continents—it is thus necessary. Otherwise, I prefer everything face to face, using actual, physical stuff, paper, and dice.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: tenbones on June 30, 2023, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on June 30, 2023, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
Naw they've said they will be publishing hard copies in addition to digital. It's just they are not directly selling them on their own site (not that they ever did much of that) as just a book without digital - just Amazon and Barnes and Noble and game stores will sell book-only.
Where did they say that? Because I suspect that they might just mean the core books.
Pretty sure I saw the same thing - just the core.
But ultimately I don't care since I'm never giving WotC a red-penny for anything they produce. I'm *glad* they're going to stop printing books. I hope they go under and drag the D&D brand down into radioactive Hell until Hasbro purges itself of all these losers, and that's not happening anytime soon. And when it does, we'll still have to wait a couple of decades to let the radioactivity on the brand to cool down.
Hell we're not even near the meltdown temp yet. But I'm wishing WotC Godspeed in the direction they're going. It's funny.
I hear talk about. But nothing from WotC I can find.
This piece says they may be moving to a hybrid of Physical+Digital. But its a bit rambling and does not back either claims.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/06/you-cant-buy-physical-only-dd-books-from-wotc-anymore.html (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/06/you-cant-buy-physical-only-dd-books-from-wotc-anymore.html)
So this may be a Chicken Little scare.
Even so theres still the problem that they are jacking to price to cover the online content.
And let us not forget that as of at least Wild Beyond the Witchlight they slipped a DLC into the module. This may be a bigger problem. What if they start selling bools. But parts of the rules are ONLY on Beyond?
I suspect WotC has data that makes them believe the under-30 D&D fans are retarded shut-ins incapable of social interaction and that's a fair assessment BUT why they would want to play a crappy video game - aka VTT RPGing - vs. playing the newest AAA title is beyond me.
But I don't see them fully abandoning Adventurer's League in-store gaming because its still popular enough and sells lots of core books.
BTW, if they go PDF/POD, they eliminate any concern for print costs and just push those onto the players.
Quote from: Spinachcat on July 02, 2023, 04:39:34 AM
I suspect WotC has data that makes them believe the under-30 D&D fans are retarded shut-ins incapable of social interaction and that's a fair assessment BUT why they would want to play a crappy video game - aka VTT RPGing - vs. playing the newest AAA title is beyond me.
But I don't see them fully abandoning Adventurer's League in-store gaming because its still popular enough and sells lots of core books.
BTW, if they go PDF/POD, they eliminate any concern for print costs and just push those onto the players.
Yes, that is a possibility. But we can't know for sure what they'll do because the people in charge now are corporate suits that don't really know the hobby all that well. They may just decide that Adventurer's League is not worth the investment.
I think WOTC will continue to publish hardcover books more frequently than people seem to believe. They will always keep the three core books in print, and likely keep them in bookstores and promoted on Amazon. These books have made them the bulk of their money and will continue to do so.
But as many have said, the emphasis for new content will be for the digital platform, dribbled out on a weekly or monthly basis to justify the ongoing subscription prices. However, my bet is that WOTC will periodically take this digital content and repackage it as a "new" hardcover supplement—thereby grabbing the cash twice for the same creative effort. True tabletop players won't see everything the digital subscribers will, of course, but periodic "best of" hardcover volumes will keep the D&D tabletop game alive. Because WOTC will have paid for the creation of this content under their digital heading, the actual outlay to produce these hardcover supplements will not be all that high for them—just quick cash grabs every 4-6 months or so.
I think it's very likely that the production of new adventure books (like all the ones we've been seeing lately) will cease.
The three core books will stay in print, I'd be very surprised if they weren't. But the rest would be digital; though they may do one or two very special collector edition products, either reprints of old books, or some kind of special homage product, almost certainly huge on nostalgia and collectability. Remember, Book Publishing is NOT in the list of four prioties for WotC, but MERCHANDISING is, and collectible special books might count as merchandising.
Quote from: GamerforHire on July 03, 2023, 07:59:13 AM
I think WOTC will continue to publish hardcover books more frequently than people seem to believe. They will always keep the three core books in print,
PHB is at least into it's 19th print run. One of my players has one and I checked it last week as am always curious how far along they are in print runs.
They pretty much need the books on shelves and short of them just up and cutting off printing, they are unlikely to close down physical books. Players just like them too much.
Also they are already bleeding players on Beyond.
This is a matter of wotc's left hand not knowing what its right foot is doing while telling its left eye it cant see and so needs glasses.
We have seen this before with other companies. Going in a new direction and abandoning their loyal fan base and customers. To find out if this is the same dance we just need to look at how deeply Hasbro is involved with Blackrock and State Street.
Quote from: Omega on July 04, 2023, 07:00:33 PM
They pretty much need the books on shelves and short of them just up and cutting off printing, they are unlikely to close down physical books. Players just like them too much.
And what the players like is something that concerns Wizard of the Woke?
Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 05, 2023, 07:26:34 PM
Quote from: Omega on July 04, 2023, 07:00:33 PM
They pretty much need the books on shelves and short of them just up and cutting off printing, they are unlikely to close down physical books. Players just like them too much.
And what the players like is something that concerns Wizard of the Woke?
Sales. The core books are probably by now in their 30th print at this point. One of our DMs PHB from a few years ago was 19th print.
Sire wotc could do the stupid and cut off books sales. But there is so far no indicator they plan to do that.
They will print the core books. No PDFs of anything. All other content being walled off in subscription format
I look forward to not paying for anything WotC produces.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 16, 2023, 02:04:58 PM
I look forward to not paying for anything WotC produces.
:D
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 16, 2023, 02:04:58 PM
I look forward to not paying for anything WotC produces.
I've been living that dream since 2012. ;D
I can see Hasbro continuing with printing books, but only for the "collector market", much like they have with their toy lines. No longer actually meant for kids to play with, but for a whale to show off on their shelf and speculate on.
Quote from: DataDwarf on October 17, 2023, 10:40:49 AM
I can see Hasbro continuing with printing books, but only for the "collector market", much like they have with their toy lines. No longer actually meant for kids to play with, but for a whale to show off on their shelf and speculate on.
1st printing faux leather and everything.
Quote from: DataDwarf on October 17, 2023, 10:40:49 AM
I can see Hasbro continuing with printing books, but only for the "collector market", much like they have with their toy lines. No longer actually meant for kids to play with, but for a whale to show off on their shelf and speculate on.
Deluxe limited-edition D&D books or box sets being sold as collectors items would fit with the "merchandising" section of their four profit plans (video games, vtt, movies/tv, merchandising), so yes, we can perhaps expect that.
I think the suggestion by some is interesting: that WOTC will concentrate themselves on digital products, both MtG and D&D, and then license out to companies the physical product line for D&D books and perhaps even MtG cards; WOTC already has done this regularly with the video game niche. This is similar to what Games Workshop has done with their roleplaying games—let someone else take the risks and pay the overhead of creating and publishing the physical books, while they just collect a stream of pure revenue. To me, if you start from the premise that Hasbro's management have electronic media backgrounds, and believe all the money is in VTT and micro transactions, this makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: GamerforHire on October 18, 2023, 08:44:35 AM
I think the suggestion by some is interesting: that WOTC will concentrate themselves on digital products, both MtG and D&D, and then license out to companies the physical product line for D&D books and perhaps even MtG cards; WOTC already has done this regularly with the video game niche. This is similar to what Games Workshop has done with their roleplaying games—let someone else take the risks and pay the overhead of creating and publishing the physical books, while they just collect a stream of pure revenue. To me, if you start from the premise that Hasbro's management have electronic media backgrounds, and believe all the money is in VTT and micro transactions, this makes a lot of sense.
What a depressing thought, but you may be right.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 19, 2023, 08:44:20 AM
What a depressing thought, but you may be right.
No more depressing than the shit content they are putting out now. Only difference is the shit content will eventually not take up any shelf space.
There haven't been any real D&D books published in years anyways, not that were called "dungeons and dragons" any ways.
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 10:28:09 AM
There haven't been any real D&D books published in years anyways, not that were called "dungeons and dragons" any ways.
What? There has been a steady stream of WOTC crap with the D&D label published recently:
The Practically Complete Guide to Dragons 8/22/23
Keys From the Golden Vault 2/21/23
Dragonlance 12/26/22
D&D Starter Set 10/4/22
Now they may be total crap but they are physical published books.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 19, 2023, 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 10:28:09 AM
There haven't been any real D&D books published in years anyways, not that were called "dungeons and dragons" any ways.
What? There has been a steady stream of WOTC crap with the D&D label published recently:
The Practically Complete Guide to Dragons 8/22/23
Keys From the Golden Vault 2/21/23
Dragonlance 12/26/22
D&D Starter Set 10/4/22
Now they may be total crap but they are physical published books.
They say they're D&D books on the cover, but they're not D&D any more, they're a parody of a parody of D&D. They've lost the essence of D&D.
It would be like taking the game of chess, reducing the number of pawns to 4, and adding two new pieces to the game, two of each, that fill up spots in the front rank where the pawns used to be, and trying to say "here is chess, this is chess now, ignore old chess, this game is exactly chess".
Each new edition of D&D, being different from the last edition of D&D, but still being called D&D, even though its different in many ways, just waters down what D&D even stands for until the people making it are huffing on their own farts of regurgitated memes and meta plots and narratives.
So yeah, no real D&D books have been published in many years.
Iowahawk's Axiom applies here:
1. Identify a respected institution.
2. Kill it.
3. Gut it.
4. Wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect.
Remember, WotC gave us Strixhaven, and an adventure where you were a barista for fuck's sake.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 19, 2023, 12:27:38 PM
Remember, WotC gave us Strixhaven, and an adventure where you were a barista for fuck's sake.
LOL! Hey what better way to start an adventure where you are tasked with killing rats in the cellar. :P
Looking at Dragon+ and its fate.
Got me thinking of one devious approach wotc could take.
The APP route. Require the books to be on some propriatory app and when the app is discontinued all the files go poof too just like Dragon+ did.
Then announce 7e. Rinse repeat.
Quote from: Omega on October 24, 2023, 04:45:39 AM
Looking at Dragon+ and its fate.
Got me thinking of one devious approach wotc could take.
The APP route. Require the books to be on some propriatory app and when the app is discontinued all the files go poof too just like Dragon+ did.
Then announce 7e. Rinse repeat.
Yesssss. No more pesky gamers holding on to prior editions precious.
Quote from: Gesyananek on October 24, 2023, 08:50:22 AM
I've been following the D&D scene, and it's interesting to see your predictions playing out. While it's sad to think about the possibility of no more official D&D books, it's also exciting to see what new horizons the RPG world might explore. Change can be a catalyst for creativity, right? You can also check out more reviews about it here (https://bookwormera.com/colleen-hoover-books-in-order/). I hope that helps!
How does "Colleen Hoover Books in Order: A Complete Guide" relate to RPGs?