From p.2 of the Hackmaster Game Master's Guide:

"Remember this work is a parody of games and the people who play them (as well as make them)"

It seems to me that way too many people take HM too seriously, and want to believe its really something more.

Others try to insist that its what "Old School" gaming was REALLY like, not getting that the joke is that its really a parody of what some people seem to believe old school gaming was like.

Finally, there are those who, confoundingly to me, believe that HM has a "brilliant" system: it does, in fact, that system is AD&D 1st Edition. Fuck's sake, people.

I'm not saying HM is a bad game, it can be played as-is for barrels of laughs, or you can play it with a lot houseruling (just like AD&D 1st Ed required a lot of houseruling) and ignoring all the silly bits to basically have a version of 1st Edition AD&D on your hands, which is also great. Its a service to the community that these books exist.

I'm just saying that a lot of its so-called fans seem to have some serious misconceptions of what its really all about.

RPGPundit

*fnord*
The parody stuff is just in there to prevent the Evil Lawyer Vampires of the Coastal Wizards to take back the license!!

/me waits for the Colonel to arrive...

I see it a little hard to not see the "joke" element in a game with "Gawds" or "Gnome Titans" as elelements.

Quote from: Sosthenes*fnord*
The parody stuff is just in their to prevent the Evil Lawyer Vampires of the Coastal Wizards to take back the license!!

I understand that it's contractually required by WotC.  A while back there was a move towards more serious Hackmaster adventures without the jokey bits and allegedly WotC smacked them down and commanded the game could not be allowed to be viewed seriously.

Personally, I think it says a lot about WotC and new D&D that the need is felt to ensure a product that is basically AD&D1 and 2 is continuously viewed as a joke.

And, as for the joke end of things, it's a pretty good one.  The product line alone of 8 $20 Monster Manuals being required to play speaks volumes about the RPG business.  The fact that we all buy those books and then make excuses about how much value we get out of them is just another part of the joke.

Otherwise, Hackmaster keys into the real reason why people play: competition.  Against other players and especially the GM.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad/me waits for the Colonel to arrive...

Aww, am I that predictable?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI see it a little hard to not see the "joke" element in a game with "Gawds" or "Gnome Titans" as elelements.

Same here.

Quote from: RPGPunditI'm just saying that a lot of its so-called fans seem to have some serious misconceptions of what its really all about.

Who are you reacting against? I see posters taking the game too seriously at Dragonsfoot and at the Kenzer boards, but I didn't know you hung out at those places enough to get a snoot-full. Besides those two places, most of the posts I see accept the parody and satire and roll with it. I'm a big proponent of HackMaster retaining the humor if/when they get off their asses and do a new edition of the game. Hell, the humor, to me, is the most enjoyable aspect of the game.

I would never call the game system "brilliant," except for some of the really nifty stuff like the "Smartass Smackdown Table," pimp-slapping each other for honor, the chainmail bikini of remote eye-gouging, and the Hacklopedia of Beasts. HackMaster is essentially a statement - "it's a fucking game, guys, lighten up!" It's too bad that I've seen some of the designers try to downplay or kinda/sorta apologize for the humor, blaming WotC's requirements for the amount of humor found in hacked modules and the like.

Quote from: GabrielI understand that it's contractually required by WotC.  A while back there was a move towards more serious Hackmaster adventures without the jokey bits and allegedly WotC smacked them down and commanded the game could not be allowed to be viewed seriously.

From what I've gathered, the humor "requirement" is for the "hacked" modules. That is, the old classic adventures adapted for HackMaster. Original modules aren't held to that requirement, according to what I've read. But damn, without the humor, what would differentiate HackMaster from AD&D? What would be the point of the game?

Quote from: GabrielPersonally, I think it says a lot about WotC and new D&D that the need is felt to ensure a product that is basically AD&D1 and 2 is continuously viewed as a joke.

Personally, I think it says more about the fact that HackMaster is based upon a game in Knights of the Dinner Table which is an obvious parody and satire of AD&D. HM is supposed to be a joke. It was never intended, at the beginning, to simply be a new edition of AD&D.

Quote from: GabrielAnd, as for the joke end of things, it's a pretty good one.  The product line alone of 8 $20 Monster Manuals being required to play speaks volumes about the RPG business.  The fact that we all buy those books and then make excuses about how much value we get out of them is just another part of the joke.

You have to remember that the Hacklopedia spoken of in the comic was also a massive, multivolume set. Doing a real-world version of HackMaster would necessitate, I think, actually making the game something like what the source material says it is. Anyone who reads the comic knows that a game based on the game in KoDT would have to be over-the-top. Otherwise, again, what would be the point?

Quote from: GabrielOtherwise, Hackmaster keys into the real reason why people play: competition.  Against other players and especially the GM.

To an extent, I agree. I think the game is parodying and satirizing a certain element of the playing population, as well as everything AD&D was ever accused of being.

Wow. I mention Hackmaster a couple times and it gets attacked in it's very own thread. LOL

QuoteWho are you reacting against?

I believe it was my statement along the lines of "yeah, the game is funny as hell, but it's quite possible to play a serious game with it." I mentioned the number of folks over at the HM boards that play serious games with the system.

My group laughs when we play it, laughs when we read it, laughs when we make the characters, and even laughs a little when we're playing a serious campaign.

Quote from: James McMurrayWow. I mention Hackmaster a couple times and it gets attacked in it's very own thread. LOL

This isn't an attack against Hackmaster. I like Hackmaster, though not more than I like AD&D, really; though I do appreciate some of the innovative additions to the rules that HM came up with.

Its just a clarification about the obviously parodical humourous nature of the game.

QuoteI believe it was my statement along the lines of "yeah, the game is funny as hell, but it's quite possible to play a serious game with it." I mentioned the number of folks over at the HM boards that play serious games with the system.

My group laughs when we play it, laughs when we read it, laughs when we make the characters, and even laughs a little when we're playing a serious campaign.

Hey, that's how it should be.  I just don't buy the theory SOME HM fans have that the game was meant to actually be a deadly-serious statement about RPG design, and not simply a cooler updated version of AD&D with a lot of KoTD-humour added in.

BTW; I can't think of a game I've run where my group wasn't laughing it up at least once per session. Humour is a big part of all but the most serious of my games.  Shit, we've cracked up on a regular basis in my CoC or Unknown Armies games.

RPGPundit

Ah, I never heard that theory, and wouldn't buy it either. I'm not sure it was meant to be "simply a cooler updated version of AD&D" either.

Glad to hear you're having so much fun in your games. I guess you're successfully keeping the war from boiling over and destroying RPGs as we know them.

Back when I was reading KoDT before HM came out, I used to think they were playing Rolemaster.

There's a definite homage to rolemaster in the game.

Yeah, I use to think that too... like all the dense percentual tables...

Quote from: ColonelHardissonWho are you reacting against? I see posters taking the game too seriously at Dragonsfoot and at the Kenzer boards, but I didn't know you hung out at those places enough to get a snoot-full. Besides those two places, most of the posts I see accept the parody and satire and roll with it.

A few years ago on the BPS, there were a number of posters who'd squeal loudly if you said anything to the effect that HM was a joke or a parody.  Jesus, talk about missing the point...

KoOS