I'm surprised, I figured it would be a massive thread.
Did i miss something?
Here's the catalyst:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215845527064252&id=1027572040
There's been a slow rumble of annoyance on G+ and MeWe.
It's pretty bad if true. Given's Zak's asshole rep it's easy to believe it.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1074347I'm surprised, I figured it would be a massive thread.
Did i miss something?
Maybe it's just taking time to circulate? I only found out about it this morning, and only because I'm Facebook friends with someone in the industry who passed it along.
Could be. It is Monday morning and people have jobs. I forget that since I'm medically retired.
Still, shitty shitty stuff.
There's a grave dancing thread on TBP...
I cannot bring myself to dig through the Big Purple. No.
I guess the purpose of this thread is to get opinions on the matter, predictions of what is going to happen, will there be a backlash, etc?
Morbid curiosity I suppose.
Quote from: David Johansen;1074352There's a grave dancing thread on TBP...
I'm not seeing it, is it in their inner sanctum for the True Believers (i.e., Tangency)?
I read the post from Mandy...
I'm not sure where I see "abuse" or where she was forcibly prevented to not just simply... walk away? How much sympathy should we have for someone that is essentially complaining about not having her feelings attended to by someone with no intention to attending to them (apparently) in that manner?
Wait... is this one of those #MeToo things?!?!?!?
Edit: and who cares? Why is this posted in this forum? Because Zak makes games? Or... waitaminute... is this one of the Drama-inducing Threads?!?!? Damn I got snuckered again.
It's game related so I put it here.
I usually don't get involved in drama posts but my curiosity got me. I'm curious to hear from other people that have followed him more closely. Mainly I think I'm bored and found this interesting.
It's front page of ENWorld (http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?6042-RPG-Writer-Zak-S-Accused-Of-Abusive-Behaviour). Their apparent reason for the coverage is, "Zak Smith appeared in the video series I Hit It With My Axe, and is known for the Playing D&D With Porn Stars blog. He has also written several RPG books, most recently for Lamentations of the Flame Princess, consulted on the D&D 5th Edition Player's Handbook, has won multiple ENnies, and recently worked for White Wolf."
I would like to read/hear Zak's response before assessing any of this. Though, as with a lot of these issues, I am not convinced this is any of my business.
Apparently he doesn't make games anymore. Not if he lives by his own words and takes the treatment he would give others. And as such an absolutist how could he do any different? The OSR was fine before him, it will get by without him.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1074358It's game related so I put it here.
I usually don't get involved in drama posts but my curiosity got me. I'm curious to hear from other people that have followed him more closely. Mainly I think I'm bored and found this interesting.
I agree with Tenbones, this has fuck all to do with games. Zak is a scumbag? You don't say!
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1074353Morbid curiosity I suppose.
Ba-Dum! Tish!
Pundit or another can move it. I don't post a lot so I wasn't sure where to put it. So here it is.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1074367Pundit or another can move it. I don't post a lot so I wasn't sure where to put it. So here it is.
Yeah, not blaming you, just tired of seeing a bunch of non-gaming drama in the main forum. This probably belongs in Pundit's forum.
Sorry. I'm pretty bad at the forum thing.
Sounds like a co-dependent mess.
I think most of us are in essentially the same camp we were in before this latest turd hit the fan.
"I like some of his stuff, because it's good, but I don't care for him personally"
His stuff is still good. He still comes off as unstable any time he opens his trap. This latest thing is a problem if and only if
1) You know him and you've got some stake in his reputation and didn't already have a reason to keep associating with him regardless of this
2) You're professionally associated with him
3) You vote for people's personalities with your gaming dollar
You don't fall into those categories? Then who cares?
How is Mandy and Zak's personal life a matter of debate for people who buy his books? Seriously, why would you care? I'm not burning my copy of maze of the blue medusa over this. You know what it changes for me? I unfollwed Zak on twitter, because I'd unfollow anybody given the content of Mandy's post. Also, since I think people should make up their OWN minds about who to believe and how to deal with this, I shared her post for the benefit of my few fans. If I hadn't gone on public record talking about how much I was a fan of his, I wouldn't have (not that I'd need to, clearly).
My biggest single complication is whether to use the art I commissioned as a tribute to her "I Hit It With My Axe" days on the cover of my book. You know what I'm going to do there? I'm going to send her a message and ask when this whole kerfuffle dies down a bit. She's likely fine with it, since it kicks so much goddamn ass. (https://mushroompress.blogspot.com/2018/12/lone-wolf-fists-fistmas-miracle-content.html)
Bam, drama over.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1074371Sounds like a co-dependent mess.
That was my take. When partners butt heads, it's usually not as cut and dried as a Lifetime Made For TV Movie. Everyone want to look like the "good guy", and paint the other as the "bad guy".
So, who knows? It's not really any of my business.
Quote from: bat;1074362Apparently he doesn't make games anymore.
I beg to differ.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1070557469/demon-city-the-ultimate-horror-rpg
Quote from: Brad;1074363I agree with Tenbones, this has fuck all to do with games. Zak is a scumbag? You don't say!
Greetings!
LOL! Hah Brad! Yeah, like that is such a *surprise*!!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
This is personal life drama and has very little to do with games, even though it is about someone who creates them.
It belongs in Pundit's forum, not here. Let other forums make it front page muckraking news.
Quote from: jeff37923;1074382This is personal life drama and has very little to do with games, even though it is about someone who creates them.
It belongs in Pundit's forum, not here. Let other forums make it front page muckraking news.
Definitely! Can we have a mod move it? (Or lock it if Pundit doesn't want it?)
Zak's an arsehole, no doubt, but there's arseholes and arseholes.
Zak stood up for me and put his pedantry to work defending me against spurious accusations, so I guess I owe him a little for that. I also think he did a fantastic amount of good work for the public image of TTRPGs and in making them 'cool' again, even if the apex of that has been elsewhere.
Many of the accusations against him have been bullshit in the past (transphobia etc), and I admired the way he stood up against accusations and nastiness directed at him or his friendship circle. I also appreciate, intimately, how such a siege mentality can twist your thinking.
But yeah, he's an argumentative arsehole.
I also know he's manipulative.
I thought we were friends, or at least cordial acquaintances, but despite defending me he blocked and dropped me in a cold minute for political expediency, even saying so directly to me, with all the guile and stealth of a dayglo brick.
I always strive to do the right thing, and usually have a strong sense of what that is, plant my feet and take an informed stand.
But what's the right thing to do when someone who may have been abused is being used to definitely destroy someone else's life?
I don't know.
I disapprove of sexual assault etc, obviously (d'uh), but I also disapprove of trial by social media and being completely unpersoned on the basis of a Facebook post.
Tricky.
His accusers are basically people who were very much 'ride or die' in public about him not that long ago. This turnaround makes me think they are being truthful.
The worst thing to happen to this hobby and many others is we allowed people to frame these things as "communities".
Playing RPGs or boardgames or liking Star Wars doesn't make you part of a "community".
It's a fundamental lie of the modern internet that we are somehow community members because we like/do the same things.
There is no "RPG community" or "Star Wars Community", etc...
There might be communities of fans but that's a huge leap from thinking there is some vague community that encompasses all gamers.
MY community is my friends and family that I play games with. We don't have a misogyny problem or a sexual harassment problem. Maybe yours does but that it fundamentally not my problem and I will not be coorced into changing my behaviour because of your problem.
Zack S isn't my friend or a member of my "community". Maybe he's a scumbag, maybe he's not. I just don't give a shit and my feelings on the matter are 100% irrelevant to the situation.
OK, there's now a thread in Pundit's forum for this. I'd suggest discussing there.
Some pretty untoward allegations against Zak S have come out (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?40165-Some-pretty-untoward-allegations-against-Zak-S-have-come-out)
Thanks. Sorry for the confusion.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1074347I'm surprised, I figured it would be a massive thread.
Did i miss something?
I have no way of verifying the veracity of any claims about Mr Smith's private life and I have no intention of entering in a relationship with him. So why would I even care?
Quote from: Mistwell;1074359It's front page of ENWorld (http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?6042-RPG-Writer-Zak-S-Accused-Of-Abusive-Behaviour).
Pretty scuzzy of Morrus to open with a link in the OP to some random's post from 2015 where he attacks Pundit and James Desborough as being part of an Axis of Evil along with Zak S. One of these things is not like the others.
Quote from: Azraele;1074374I think most of us are in essentially the same camp we were in before this latest turd hit the fan.
"I like some of his stuff, because it's good, but I don't care for him personally"
How is Mandy and Zak's personal life a matter of debate for people who buy his books? Seriously, why would you care? I'm not burning my copy of maze of the blue medusa over this. You know what it changes for me? I unfollwed Zak on twitter, because I'd unfollow anybody given the content of Mandy's post. Also, since I think people should make up their OWN minds about who to believe and how to deal with this, I shared her post for the benefit of my few fans. If I hadn't gone on public record talking about how much I was a fan of his, I wouldn't have (not that I'd need to, clearly).
Bam, drama over.
100% agreed. The reactions and all the virtue signaling under his kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1070557469/demon-city-the-ultimate-horror-rpg/comments) make me sick. He is still innocent untill proven guilty and all in all I just want a good game. I think it's a damn shame Demon City is now likely to get cancelled, because that was right in my wheelhouse and I liked a lot of the GM advice in that game. Fuck #Metoo! I just want a fucking game! /rant
Quote from: jan paparazzi;1074433Fuck #Metoo! I just want a fucking game! /rant
I can just imagine the reaction of all the metropolitan types when the Harvey Weinstein revelations came:
"Fuck #MeToo! I just want a fucking well produced costume drama with left-liberal social mores!" :p
All I know is that Zak S. is an asshole and I am not going to involve myself in any of this drama regarding him.
You can begin to differ. That's cool. That Kickstarter was funded well before this. As a matter of fact, check out the comments and see how people are pulling support.
Did this have to be a public trial?
Quote from: jan paparazzi;1074433I think it's a damn shame Demon City is now likely to get cancelled, because that was right in my wheelhouse and I liked a lot of the GM advice in that game.
Why would it be cancelled?
I doubt the creators have any legal obligation to refund any backer's money. They paid for a book to be made (not a preorder) and when they get the book, they can do whatever they want with it.
The virtue signalling in that KS thread is truly laughable. Thank you for the LoLz!!
Demon City sounds like a very good product (ZakS does World of Darkness) and I am bummed I missed the KS.
Hopefully it still gets published.
While I DO think that this is an acceptable thread for this forum, because it relates to news in the RPG hobby, the fact that there was already a thread about it on the Pundit's forum and that there's a high chance of people trying to move this off-topic to larger political arguments leads me to feel that it'll be better to close this one.
If you want to talk about this, just go to the Pundit's forum.