Fantasy Flight games put out their upcoming list for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay for the rest of 2010 and into 2011.

There are some interesting things coming out.

While half of it is expansion material and adventure stuff that I'm looking forward to.  There is a more interesting development.

They are putting out hardcover rule books to cover the current game that contain everything you need to play (except the dice) without using cards, trackers etc....  It sounds like that means they'll just have all the card information printed out in the books in what likely will be a more traditional way, like feats/special powers/spells like in D&D.   I don't know how they'll be handling the trackers currently, if it's just numbers on a character sheet or some new way of dealing with things.

On one hand this could make many people that have been reluctant to latch onto the current system very happy.  It makes the buy in a little easier and centralizes the mechanics which could make certain things easier.  

Based on the current release schedule the bits format isn't being dropped in the immediate future.  We've got several new boxes coming out for it that continue support for this version of the game.  Also the Hard Cover books still use the same core rules but will have some supplemental rules that are needed to play the game without using all the bits.  This may be something as simple as a bigger character sheet with areas on it that you just drop counters onto.

Realistically the bits method of expansion will eventually come to a point where very few new bits are needed.  We don't need a never ending supply of new careers, that's just silly.  Perhaps 10-20 more careers (few basic with the bulk of advanced) would basically round out the set. New action cards are welcome but not really needed unless they were planning on making this game an LCG where new action cards trump old action cards. That I think is something most would agree is a bad idea. We don't really need more location cards as there are already plenty and a few here and there in some adventure box sets rounds it out.   We don't really need more status, wound or other misc. cards for the most part.  So other then the priest box set and maybe one more box set to finish off advanced careers (both normal and magic using) the card based line is largely complete when it comes to the mechanics of the game.

That means all that's left is supplemental rules, settings and adventures. Supplemental rules don't need to be on cards, they never had.  Setting books wouldn't need cards beyond maybe some setting or item cards and adventures don't really need new cards either. Gathering Storm has a few unique cards but really they aren't needed.  They could have just put out the scenario in pure book format and nothing much would have been lost. This will become even more true after the next few card releases come out.

The important part is that FFG is supporting WFRP they are rounding out the bits game very well with a few critical boxes that fully flush this version of the game. The HC books will be easier/cheaper to produce and easier to stock for retail, which is important to some stores.  Some gamers will definitely prefer the book version of the game.  We bits lovers, who would never consider playing that way now, can't ignore the fact that they probably have a player or two in their group that wouldn't spend money on their own box set but likely would pick up the Hard Cover rules. Personally while I have no intention of buying the HC version of the book I'm hoping that it does come out in PDF format because that would actually make a PDF version of the rules usable on their own.

In the end the Bits and HC versions based on the information on hand create two versions of the same game and should get all the rules to the same spot. Then they can concentrate on putting out setting/scenario material in one format that works well with whatever medium of the game you prefer.

Lastly for people wanting to do convention style gaming the HC version will make that a lot more palatable.  Speaking personally the thought of random strangers touching my bits gives me the cold sweats.

Hmmm...

All the more reason for me to keep an eye on this.  As I'm slowly entering "economic recovery" mode, Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 3rd edition is one of those games I have my eye on.

was psyched at your news.

then looked at the releases.  great, a shift from 1 core book (1e, 2e) to the money grab d&d 3-vol. model.  and those prices--not a cheap buy-in.  i was curious to see what 3e is about, but i'm not spending US$120 (list) for the 3 volumes.

still, if folks like it, fine.  guess i'm sticking with my 1e stuff.  but then again i have no group to cater to or worry about these days.

Yeah, i saw this and thought it was hilarious.

It is a piece of brilliance by the business boys over there.

Let's see...

1. Release new game with all the boardgame trappings. For a high price.

2. release the 'rulebooks' that are useless without the full gamebox as pdfs. For a high price (lowered to merely 'pricey' recently).

3. Release the same game in a traditional hard-back book form. Maybe some fools that have the box will buy the same stuff again! On the other side, maybe we'll get some of the folk who haven't bought the boxes!

Will they be selling the bits / cards / dice separately?

'Cuz I don't see how the HC is going to bring in new players who then have to buy the box to actually play the game.

The point of the hardcover books is that you don't need the bits to play the game.  It has all the rules that currently show up on the cards in the books.  So basically action cards are presented like feats/spells in D&D.  It that supplements in new rules that you would need to replace the current bits.

So all you need to buy is the Hardcover rules and the dice separately and you are good to go.

More info

Quote from: Jay Little FFGGreetings, everyone. We realize that with the excitement of the new releases across the RPG lines, there have been some questions raised over the series of Guide and Vault products we're developing for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I wanted to take a moment and clarify some of the issues so both new and veteran players know what to look forward to with the upcoming releases.

Also, if you're going to be attending GenCon, be sure to attend the Small But Vicious Seminar on Saturday (details available at our booth), where I will be presenting more information about the product line and answering questions.

Q: If I have the Core Set will I need the Player's Guide?
A: No, although the rules have been updated with our recent FAQ and may be clearer in some areas, there is no new rules or information.

Q: So what does the Player's Guide offer over the player information from the Core Set?
A: We have condensed all the information from the cards and careers of sets up to and through the "Signs of Faith" product for easy reference, and there are rules for playing WFRP "Lite" (i.e. without components, for those that prefer this method). This includes action cards, talents, career abilities--virtually all of the player-focused content released so far. Also, the Player's Guide features some new examples and diagrams, as well as some clarifications and streamlined organization.

Q: How about the GM's Guide?
A: If you own the Core Set, you'll not need the GM's guide to play WFRP. The GM's Guide, like the Players' Guide, does provide for detailed lookup tables for a number of game elements. For example, there are complete charts and tables for some effects currently managed by decks of cards, providing both a handy reference, as well as a means to play the game using more traditional means.

Q: So, if I have a new group interested in playing WFRP, where do I start?
A: The Core Set is the ideal starting point for a new group and a superb value. The core set's component mix can easily support 4 people (1 GM and 3 players). Additional players can be added with additional copies of the "Player's Vault" if desired. Now with the release of the new Vault and Guide products, if a player wants additional rules sets on hand, you can pick up the "Player's Guide" without having to get another Core Set (an augment this with more sets of dice, if needed).

Q: So did the original model not work?
A: We've had phenomenal sales of the WFRP products that we have put out to date, with several already in their the second printing. By adding these Guide Books and Vaults, we are responding to player feedback and requests to give players options to expand their group without having to purchase additional Core Sets.

Q: So you'll continue to sell the Core Set?
A:Yes. It's still a great value and the ideal all-in-one entry point for a group.

Q: How about future supplements?
A: These will be released in the same way that we have released our supplements to date (such as "The Gathering Storm" and "Winds of Magic") including both the rules, source materials, and components in one box

Q: Can you tell us why the anticipated Slaanesh box was not on the release schedule through summer 2011?
A: No, what happens in the Inevitable City stays in the Inevitable City.

Now that's all good information.  The current Core set is still the standard and will be for the future, it's not being replace.  The guide is a supplemental way of playing and not the new default.

Very interesting. I might be tempted by the Hardcovers, but one thing I'm uncertain about is why they're releasing a box (for 40 dollars) with bestiary cards and then (for 30 dollars) a book containing write-ups of... the same beasts that are on the tokens? Well, I don't know.

Edit. From krysst's last quote:

QuoteSo what does the Player's Guide offer over the player information from the Core Set?
A: We have condensed all the information from the cards and careers of sets up to and through the "Signs of Faith" product for easy reference, and there are rules for playing WFRP "Lite" (i.e. without components, for those that prefer this method). This includes action cards, talents, career abilities--virtually all of the player-focused content released so far. Also, the Player's Guide features some new examples and diagrams, as well as some clarifications and streamlined organization.

Awesome! My major bug with Warhammer 3rd was the fiddliness with the bits. If the system is fully playable without them (e.g. the cool down mechanism on the cards) this sounds rather attractive to me.

With a thread title like that, I thought, "hey ho, here comes WHFRP 4th Edition!".
 
Actually the box set is quite stunning, heavy and stocked with all the kind of goodies you'd expect from a boardgame. (WOTC take note). It will be interesting to see how the hardback varies from the box set. I prefer PDFs, so if WHFRP 3e remains as a box set only, its not going to "travel" well.

Wizards of the Coast releases D&D 4e as a bunch of books, then decides a bunch of boxed sets is better.

Fantasy Flight Games releases WFRP 3e as a bunch of boxed sets, then decides a bunch of books is better.

Really, I suspect neither has any idea of what they're doing. :confused:

Quote from: The Butcher;397292Really, I suspect neither has any idea of what they're doing. :confused:

Much as I suspect you only read part of the thread and not all of it.

Quote from: The Butcher;397292Wizards of the Coast releases D&D 4e as a bunch of books, then decides a bunch of boxed sets is better.

Fantasy Flight Games releases WFRP 3e as a bunch of boxed sets, then decides a bunch of books is better.

Really, I suspect neither has any idea of what they're doing. :confused:

To be fair, WotC's boxed sets are in an entirely different player/price category.

Quote from: kryyst;397267So all you need to buy is the Hardcover rules and the dice separately and you are good to go.

Add up the prices for the 3 core books and dice. Most expensive RPG ever,no?

Hmmm ...

board game format ---> book format

book format --->  board game format


Will be interesting to see how well WotC's Ravenloft board game fares, and how soon it gets abandoned.

Quote from: Spinachcat;397263Will they be selling the bits / cards / dice separately?

'Cuz I don't see how the HC is going to bring in new players who then have to buy the box to actually play the game.

What I understand is that there are three hardcover rulebooks: a PHB, a DMG, and a MM.  These have the info from the cards in a traditional RPG format.

If you want the cards and bits, there are three more new bit box sets, one for each hardcover book.  These have the cards and counters and stuff.