What do I mean by "New Versions"?  Taking the most basic core engine, and then ripping everything else out and rebuilding with a specific setting type other than "WotC-style D&D-genre Fantasy Superheroes" in mind.

The most famous product in this space of course is Adventures in Middle Earth.  All classes removed, new classes added, no D&D magic, and addition/conversion of The One Ring mechanics.  C7 took 5e, removed all mechanics that didn't fit their setting assumptions and then added ones that did.  It essentially did to 5e what Mongoose Conan or EverQuest did to D20 - rebuilt it in a different image.

I thought AiME was the only one out there, but then I saw this in the Kickstarter thread above: Dragon Heresy.

The name "Dragon Heresy" doesn't actually scream "Norse" to me, but apparently this game is trying to bring Norse-Inspired gaming to 5e.  More about Dragon Heresy in a minute, but now the real question:

Do you know of any other games like AiME that are remaking 5e to fit a specific setting to the point that they've essentially created a different version of 5e?

So now Dragon Heresy.  If you know what Dungeon Grappling is, this is by the same guy and those rules came from this game/setting.  So it looks like the big divergences of this game according to the Kickstarter are:

• Norse-inspired culture, cosmology, and mythology.
• Deadly and tactically interesting combat.
• Rules and options to bring viking-style martial combat to the Fifth Edition of the world's most popular Fantasy RPG, with both tactical and narrative tools.

It means to accomplish this through rules changes:

• Fights are not driven by attrition, integrating morale and the potential for sudden incapacitation.
• Division of HP into wounds and vigor for a more coherent treatment of rest and injury.  Dragon Heresy differentiates strongly between wounds, vigor, and exhaustion to make resting vs. healing a meaningful distinction.
• Shields are way, way cooler, providing active defense using your reaction, and protection against missile weapons and other swift attacks not available to melee-only fighters.
• Enhanced use of existing mechanics to add nuance and risk to combat, especially exhaustion and reactions.
• The ability to aim and evaluate, make a called shot, and rules to ensure long-reach spear-fighters are a force to be reckoned with.
• Grappling rules that don't suck! Dragon Heresy originated the rules that became Dungeon Grappling
• The changes in the rules have been painstakingly rippled through the rules for monsters and spells, updating each where appropriate.

However, AiME, Mongoose Conan, and EverQuest in making a divergent game from existing D&D, completely tossed and remade the Classes and Spells.  I'm not sure if this game does this or not.  The Magic section is 8 pages with Spells by Class of 25 pages.  This tells me there's not all that many spells, so they may have done a complete revision or they may have just cut a ton of spells and reallocated the rest.  I'll PM Douglas Cole the author and see if he can fill us in.

AiME does sound really good.
If I didn't already have a LOT of RPGs on my "To run or play" list, I'd probably get it.

OK, I'm interested...

Quote from: CRKrueger;1033894The name "Dragon Heresy" doesn't actually scream "Norse" to me, but apparently this game is trying to bring Norse-Inspired gaming to 5e.

Hey. Saw your post in the search.

The title definitely doesn't scream norse. The Dragon is both from one of the factions in the game, and also the 'nD' in DnD. The Heresy was because two years back when I was starting to ponder rules mods, i called em "heretical DnD." The Dragon Heresy was a bit of a combo from that, and the name stuck. There are both dragons (lots of 'em) and heresies (on the part of the fae) in the backround of the setting.

QuoteSo now Dragon Heresy.  If you know what Dungeon Grappling is, this is by the same guy and those rules came from this game/setting.  So it looks like the big divergences of this game according to the Kickstarter are:

• Norse-inspired culture, cosmology, and mythology.
• Deadly and tactically interesting combat.
• Rules and options to bring viking-style martial combat to the Fifth Edition of the world's most popular Fantasy RPG, with both tactical and narrative tools.

It means to accomplish this through rules changes:

• Fights are not driven by attrition, integrating morale and the potential for sudden incapacitation.
• Division of HP into wounds and vigor for a more coherent treatment of rest and injury.  Dragon Heresy differentiates strongly between wounds, vigor, and exhaustion to make resting vs. healing a meaningful distinction.
• Shields are way, way cooler, providing active defense using your reaction, and protection against missile weapons and other swift attacks not available to melee-only fighters.
• Enhanced use of existing mechanics to add nuance and risk to combat, especially exhaustion and reactions.
• The ability to aim and evaluate, make a called shot, and rules to ensure long-reach spear-fighters are a force to be reckoned with.
• Grappling rules that don't suck! Dragon Heresy originated the rules that became Dungeon Grappling
• The changes in the rules have been painstakingly rippled through the rules for monsters and spells, updating each where appropriate.

However, AiME, Mongoose Conan, and EverQuest in making a divergent game from existing D&D, completely tossed and remade the Classes and Spells.  I'm not sure if this game does this or not.

The classes are mostly the same, but of course all fluff text has to be rewritten as the SRD doesn't have any of it. The archetypes were expanded and of course new level/class abilities are present b/c they have to be.

The spells are mostly the same in this version, except damaging spells and a few others (like spells that grapple) were recast to be consistent with the new rules.

In terms of rules changes for combat it makes extensive use of the existing 5e framework, but

HP have gone into wounds and vigor, where vigor are basically HP and recovered on the scale of hours, or a night's sleep. wounds take days and weeks to heal, and are serious business. It is possible to kill a foe without depleting his vigor at all under the right circumstances.

AC has been migrated to Threat DC, Hit DC, and Damage Reduction. It's still a one-roll hit resolution, but you get a variety of narrative/mechanical outcomes.

I had a GREAT conversation with Chris Sneizak on Down with DnD that dropped yesterday, as well as a few other podcasts, linked here.


If you want to hit me up semi real-time, I've got a Discord Channel for Gaming Ballistic, and I'm always happy to chat.

I don't want to either minimize or overstate the differences. I think that the playtests showed a very, very dynamic and fun game with many ways to successfully kick monster/NPC butt.

Not sure if these count, but two games by Scrivened LLC come to mind: Hyperlanes, and Hellscapes. The former is a sci-fi game built with 5E, and the latter is post-apocalypse. I don't own either, so I can't comment on the quality of the ideas. But one concept that both employ is "gambits," which are magical spells converted into limited use talents.

Pugmire kinda fits this; it claims to be 5e inspired, but you can tell reading it the writer prefers either 4e, or a PbtA game. Still, it has some interesting mechanical changes for a simpler 5e--and a great deal of missed opportunities.

My contention for a while has been that there are only a few core elements that make a RPG what it is. The rest is "stuff" that can be changed. That one could leverage this to make a game feel completely different to fit a particular subgenre or setting.

Doug's Dragon Heresy and Cublicle's Adventures in Middle Earth are both good example of this in action. As well as many of the OSR near-clones.

Over the Harn forum there several 5e related threads and it annoys me that most of them are thin adaptation of 5e "stuff" to harn instead of doing what AiME. No matter how you slice it the magic of a D&D 5e Wizard is nothing like the magic of the Shek P'var as depicted in Harnmagic.

Talislanta: The Savage Lands 5e Edition

Lots of optional changes - including classless progression, mass-combat rules, alternative magic system (ritual skill-based magic), expanded faction rules for Tribe creation. New crafting rules.

IIRC, I read somewhere last week that there is a 5E version of Rocket Age in development.

This is an interesting thread. Keep 'em coming!

Quote from: Celestial;1033998IIRC, I read somewhere last week that there is a 5E version of Rocket Age in development.

I'm not familiar with Rocket Age, but it sounds scifi and I'd love to see some sort of scifi version of 5E. I'll have to google this....

Although a home-brew, last year I switched over to 5e for my Tekumel Campaign, and it has worked just fine. Surprisingly, it was quite effortless with only a little work required  to convert the EPT characters into 5e ones. The only time consuming part was (has been) converting the creatures into 5e stats, and I have been doing this on an "as needed" basis instead of trying to do it all at once. Similarly, the spells fit right in with no real modification(s) needed.

Shemek

How do we compile this? What categories? How's this:

Reimagined 5e -- AiME
Partially Reimagined 5e -- Dragon Heresy
Ported Setting -- Tekumel 5e (homebrew?)
Ported System -- Talislanta: Savage Lands, Rocket Age?
[edited]
Ported Genre -- Hyperlanes (sci-fi), Hellscapes (post-apoc)

Pugmire is more reimagined or partially reimagined? how much 4e is swapped in?

Quote from: Opaopajr;1034559How do we compile this? What categories? How's this:

Reimagined 5e -- AiME
Partially Reimagined 5e -- Dragon Heresy
Ported Setting -- Tekumel 5e (homebrew?)
Ported System -- Talislanta: Savage Lands, Rocket Age?

Dunno where Hyperlanes, Hellscapes, or Pugmire fit...

Fairly straightforward taxonomy - but the rubber hits the road in how well they hold up in doing the job.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1034559Dunno where Hyperlanes, Hellscapes, or Pugmire fit...

Ported Genre