Anybody else see this? Still early but good news!
Twilight 2000 (https://www.google.com/amp/gametyrant.com/news/the-fourth-edition-of-twilight-2000-is-on-the-way%3fformat=amp) returns.
Whatever happened to Twilight 2013?
I saw this and my first thought was "sparkly vampires." Does that make me a bad person?
Quote from: Brad;1129860Whatever happened to Twilight 2013?
It was a politically correct dung pile that failed less hard than it deserved.
Quote from: Theory of Games;1129855Anybody else see this? Still early but good news!
Twilight 2000 (https://www.google.com/amp/gametyrant.com/news/the-fourth-edition-of-twilight-2000-is-on-the-way%3fformat=amp) returns.
Just the fact that it is not a 5e 'compatible' game is a victory.
Quote from: Jaeger;1129877Just the fact that it is not a 5e 'compatible' game is a victory.
Eh, they're not using the "original-original" timeline. They are using the revised timeline from T2000 v2.
Minor quibble aside, I am curious as to how close to the T2000 game mechanics they are going to stick, and if so whether they are building off of the v1 or v2.2 rules.
Quote from: RandyB;1129883Eh, they're not using the "original-original" timeline. They are using the revised timeline from T2000 v2.
Minor quibble aside, I am curious as to how close to the T2000 game mechanics they are going to stick, and if so whether they are building off of the v1 or v2.2 rules.
Probably going to use the Mutant Year Zero, Tales from the Loop, Forbidden Lands, etc system that all the rest of their games seem to use.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129887Probably going to use the Mutant Year Zero, Tales from the Loop, Forbidden Lands, etc system that all the rest of their games seem to use.
Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
Quote from: Theory of Games;1129855Anybody else see this? Still early but good news!
Twilight 2000 (https://www.google.com/amp/gametyrant.com/news/the-fourth-edition-of-twilight-2000-is-on-the-way%3fformat=amp) returns.
Big Eyes Small Mouth made a comeback and it's actually awesome, and now Twilight 2000 is coming back too and it's not going to be some 5E-compatible woke punk trainwreck?
Awesome
[video=youtube;P3ALwKeSEYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs[/youtube]
[video=youtube;pusZXECS0mM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pusZXECS0mM[/youtube]
[video=youtube;400_dTpb3U4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=400_dTpb3U4[/youtube]
Now, if RECON and Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game can come back while Onyx Path gets dissolved and Paradox ends V5 and W5 for good, then all will be perfect in the RPG hobby.
It's not exactly what you are looking for but you can still get RECON in PDF
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2627/Palladium-Books/subcategory/4816_5197/RECON
Quote from: rgrove0172;1129890Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
Yeah, I've tried it...I tossed it into the same pile as Fate/Fudge, Traveller 5, the new 7th Sea, and so many other games.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1129890Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
I have Coriolis. Same general system even if the specifics differ a bit. The failure rate seems very, very high and the game is made to ensure you're not really good at much of anything (even your "thing").
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129898It's not exactly what you are looking for but you can still get RECON in PDF
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2627/Palladium-Books/subcategory/4816_5197/RECON
Eh, that's Palladium's version. I was hoping someone had resurrected the pre-Palladium version.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1129907I have Coriolis. Same general system even if the specifics differ a bit. The failure rate seems very, very high and the game is made to ensure you're not really good at much of anything (even your "thing").
That's why you have the ability to do x (varies from setting to setting) allowing you to succeed but giving the GM some sort of narrative points to use against the group.
Twilight 2000, in its original form, is delightfully wonky and if you like Traveller then you'll find it is very like that system. It's definitely an "old school" game from a design standpoint, and I like it like that a lot. It's not a "story telling game" by any stretch, it's an action game. It's D&D in Poland after WW3. Tales from the Loop is a fine system - for Tales from the Loop. But T2k is gun-and-tank-porn, and I just don't foresee how they can capture that feeling.
And yes, Twilight 2013 is bad. It's 4e D&D bad. Blah blah people rush in saying "Oh then it should be great, 4e rocked" etc., go ahead and get it out of your systems. But anyway, yes, T2013 sucked on ice.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1129890Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
Thanks for the review up on this. I was just thinking about getting it yesterday and today, however didn't know anything about it.
If I remember right, Palladium's Revised Recon reprinted at least part of the original in the back of the book. I haven't been able to find my copy in a couple years. Dunno what I did with it.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1129921Twilight 2000, in its original form, is delightfully wonky and if you like Traveller then you'll find it is very like that system. It's definitely an "old school" game from a design standpoint, and I like it like that a lot. It's not a "story telling game" by any stretch, it's an action game. It's D&D in Poland after WW3. Tales from the Loop is a fine system - for Tales from the Loop. But T2k is gun-and-tank-porn, and I just don't foresee how they can capture that feeling.
Ehh? I have
Twilight 2000 of course. When I was younger we used SPI's
"The Next War" to play out the first few days of the Twilight: 2000 War, and started our campaign with that. I'd like to see a reboot with a new
Twilight: 2030 or
Twilight: 2040 timeline with middle east maps of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan, as well as updated maps where WW III starts in Russia and Ukraine with Poland and France being in NATO, and Turkey being kicked out of NATO.
I'd also like an Africa Map pack including Yemen, Ethiopia, Kenya, and in the West Algeria, Libya, NIger, Sudan, Chad, Mali. and Mauritania. Also an Iran Campaign map would be cool.
Of course an updated equipment guide with the latest toys including drones LAV 600's, Bradleys, Abrams, and close support aircraft including Warthogs, Helicopters Modern F-15's and F-16's, F-35's, F-117's Nighthawks and B2 Spirits, along with the soviet equivalents, including their new Main Battle Tanks. the T-14 Armata's, VPK-7829 Bumerangs, Kurganets-25's, Rosomak IFV's, Nona-SVK's, and of course all the awesome artillery. A sourcebook for China would be good,
I guess an updated timeline ca 2040 with China on Russia's side vs the USA could be fairly plausible. Russia on its own is not really a peer competitor to the USA currently, neither is China, but a bit of time & the two together could sort of work.
Rob Ager recently did a great analysis of Red Dawn which is currently blocked, there's an extract at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZhcyqjVlx4&t=2s - one thing he discusses is the geostrategy; the Soviets avoid US naval superiority by attacking from the north via Alaska, with Cuban & Nicaraguan forces supported by Soviet light forces in Communist Mexico attacking from the south, and Spetsnaz units coming in on commercial flights. While not hugely plausible in hindsight (by the 1980s the US M1 Abrams tanks had come in, making US tanks finally superior to any Soviet tanks - but this wasn't really known until Gulf War I) it is the kind of thing that gives that important feeling of truthiness to a WW3 scenario.
Quote from: rgrove0172;1129890Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
I ran a combined MY0 game for about a year awhile ago. It had the mutants, the animals and the robots as PC options. We had a good time and didn't find too much wrong with the system. Well, no more than we find wrong with most other systems.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1129907I have Coriolis. Same general system even if the specifics differ a bit. The failure rate seems very, very high and the game is made to ensure you're not really good at much of anything (even your "thing").
I had the opposite problem. It was very rare for the PCs to ever really fail anything that was part of their "thing". The worst that usually happened is they succeeded but didn't get any extra successes for stunts. Outside of their "thing" they still had pretty decent odds with only a minor amount of levels in a skill or some gear to help.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129919That's why you have the ability to do x (varies from setting to setting) allowing you to succeed but giving the GM some sort of narrative points to use against the group.
Not sure about Coriolis, but the Year Zero games didn't have GM narrative points along those lines. Players can decide to push a roll (re-roll) but at the risk of taking damage or breaking gear. It doesn't give the GM anything.
Quote from: rgalex;1129965I ran a combined MY0 game for about a year awhile ago. It had the mutants, the animals and the robots as PC options. We had a good time and didn't find too much wrong with the system. Well, no more than we find wrong with most other systems.
I had the opposite problem. It was very rare for the PCs to ever really fail anything that was part of their "thing". The worst that usually happened is they succeeded but didn't get any extra successes for stunts. Outside of their "thing" they still had pretty decent odds with only a minor amount of levels in a skill or some gear to help.
Not sure about Coriolis, but the Year Zero games didn't have GM narrative points along those lines. Players can decide to push a roll (re-roll) but at the risk of taking damage or breaking gear. It doesn't give the GM anything.
Coriolis (if my brain isn't too addled with lack of sleep) had where you could pray to the icons (gods) and get a re-roll but the gm got a darkness point to screw with the group.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129978Coriolis (if my brain isn't too addled with lack of sleep) had where you could pray to the icons (gods) and get a re-roll but the gm got a darkness point to screw with the group.
Prayer feeds the forces of darkness...
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129919That's why you have the ability to do x (varies from setting to setting) allowing you to succeed but giving the GM some sort of narrative points to use against the group.
I really hope they do not go that route...
For My hat of narrative GM points no no limit.
I ran a one shot conan 2d20 game and played in another game where the GM had a "point pool" that would get added to as the players did things.
Those mechanics can burn in hell.
They should be shot, buried, then that dead horse should be dug up so it can be beat on some more.
I don't need the very act of being a GM to be made into a points game. I run the game.
Being the GM does not need to be made a game itself. That is the path to evil.
GM "points" are a BAD game mechanic created by limp wristed, soy boy RPG designers who were traumatized by a bad GM experience in their youth. These Traumatized fucking hipsters want to limit in-game GM authority and allow the players to be able to quantify exactly how much the GM can "screw" them over.
GM point pools are the most anti-immersion "RPG" mechanics ever.
They have
no place in RPG's.
Yeah, 2d20 really forces the GM into an adversarial role. I can see how some people would enjoy that style of play but ACK! Blech!
Quote from: rgrove0172;1129890Which makes it trash pretty much. Any of you guys suffer through playing the MY0 system? I tried, I really did. It sucks.
Maybe the next license for T2000, after this one, will have a good game system.
I actually went looking for RECON after reading this thread. Surprise, I did find scans of it! It looks more like a squad-level wargame than a proper RPG though, but that might just be me.
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1130044I actually went looking for RECON after reading this thread. Surprise, I did find scans of it! It looks more like a squad-level wargame than a proper RPG though, but that might just be me.
A bit of both, as I recall. BitD, RPGs were a lot closer to their wargaming roots.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1130028Maybe the next license for T2000, after this one, will have a good game system.
Sadly, that's very subjective. Personally I'd like a tight simulationist system that's easy to play, well organized, and finds a way to keep PCs alive without resourting to a narrative points economy. When I say simulationist, I mostly mean I'd like things in the game to be represented in the game as things that exist in the setting rather than rules objects and I'd like things to work like they should work even when my expectation is wrong, which is where simulation differs from versmilitude.
You want an updated system? Use Zozer Games' Modern Warfare (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/304503/Modern-War) and use any of the old T2000 scenarios or the ones listed above.
Quote from: RandyB;1129872It was a politically correct dung pile that failed less hard than it deserved.
How was 2013 PC it had a supplement for pimping out your AR-14. As for the Free League MYZ version no just no.
Quote from: JMiskimen;1130048You want an updated system? Use Zozer Games' Modern Warfare (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/304503/Modern-War) and use any of the old T2000 scenarios or the ones listed above.
I'm doing the same thing using Mongoose Traveller and soldier careers based on tech level.
Quote from: JMiskimen;1130048You want an updated system? Use Zozer Games' Modern Warfare (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/304503/Modern-War) and use any of the old T2000 scenarios or the ones listed above.
Zozer is rocking it with their Cepheus Engine stuff. I never thought about using it for T2000. It would be a great fit.
Quote from: RandyB;1130076Zozer is rocking it with their Cepheus Engine stuff. I never thought about using it for T2000. It would be a great fit.
Oh man, I finished reading Modern Warfare, and I can tell you all you need are some foraging/survival rules, and you're good to go for Twilight:2000 using Cepheus Engine. It's not even subtle.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1129919That's why you have the ability to do x (varies from setting to setting) allowing you to succeed but giving the GM some sort of narrative points to use against the group.
Mutant Year Zero doesn't have any of this. Coriolis does. Not sure about the other MYZ games.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1129907I have Coriolis. Same general system even if the specifics differ a bit. The failure rate seems very, very high and the game is made to ensure you're not really good at much of anything (even your "thing").
I've seen people claim the exact opposite as well. It's time someone probability-savvy showed us the raw data so we can know who's right.
So Free League is becoming like Modipheus picking up rpgs lines here and there. I wish them the best of luck though no one I know in my area plays Twilight 2000 anymore. Anyone know what system it will use?
Quote from: sureshot;1130173So Free League is becoming like Modipheus picking up rpgs lines here and there. I wish them the best of luck though no one I know in my area plays Twilight 2000 anymore. Anyone know what system it will use?
Mutant Year Zero-based.
Quote from: 3rik;1130169I've seen people claim the exact opposite as well. It's time someone probability-savvy showed us the raw data so we can know who's right.
They put it right in the book. Now I don't know if it's correct or not, but this is what they say.
CHANCE OF SUCCESS
When you roll lots of dice it can be hard to get a feel for your chance of success. The table below
shows the probability, in percentages, of making a roll with 1 to 10 dice. The third column shows
the chance of success if you push the roll.
# OF DICE ------ CHANCE OF SUCCESS ------ PUSHED ROLL
1 ------------------------- 17% ------------------------ 29%
2 ------------------------- 31% ------------------------ 50%
3 ------------------------- 42% ------------------------ 64%
4 ------------------------- 52% ------------------------ 74%
5 ------------------------- 60% ------------------------ 81%
6 ------------------------- 67% ------------------------ 87%
7 ------------------------- 72% ------------------------ 90%
8 ------------------------- 77% ------------------------ 93%
9 ------------------------- 81% ------------------------ 95%
10 ----------------------- 84% ------------------------ 96%
A pushed roll is where you can re-roll any Attribute and Gear die that didn't come up 1 or 6 and any Skill die that didn't come up a 6. 6s are already successes so you wouldn't need to re-roll them. 1s on Attribute or Gear dice become damage (to the PC or their gear) but only if the roll is pushed.
You only need one 6 to succeed. Extra 6s are used for bonus add-ons (more damage, longer duration, etc).
Quote from: 3rik;1130169Mutant Year Zero doesn't have any of this. Coriolis does. Not sure about the other MYZ games.
I've seen people claim the exact opposite as well. It's time someone probability-savvy showed us the raw data so we can know who's right.
Not sure about the rest but the Alien game has a very high rate unless you are ramped up with stress.
Quote from: RandyB;1130076Zozer is rocking it with their Cepheus Engine stuff. I never thought about using it for T2000. It would be a great fit.
We didn't jive with the T2k rules back in the day and just switched out for Classic Traveller. It worked perfectly so I expect a Cepheus Engine T2K would be good.
Our groups only quibble was CT wasn't great for breaking down minor differences in gear which exists in T2k. For instance, CT has "automatic rifles" and T2K has a dozen automatic rifles broken down by nationality. So we had to some conversions, but I doubt we spent more than an afternoon deciding what did what.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1130219We didn't jive with the T2k rules back in the day and just switched out for Classic Traveller. It worked perfectly so I expect a Cepheus Engine T2K would be good.
Our groups only quibble was CT wasn't great for breaking down minor differences in gear which exists in T2k. For instance, CT has "automatic rifles" and T2K has a dozen automatic rifles broken down by nationality. So we had to some conversions, but I doubt we spent more than an afternoon deciding what did what.
GDW followed suit. T2000 v2.2 used the same rules as Traveller: The New Era.
Quote from: RandyB;1130249GDW followed suit. T2000 v2.2 used the same rules as Traveller: The New Era.
God that was fucking horrible. Firing automatic weapons became a workout of dice rolling reps.
Oh for real. I played one short campaign under New Era. The players were like, 'That sure was a lot of dice rolling' ha To what benefit they were bemused.
Quote from: Kuroth;1130262Oh for real. I played one short campaign under New Era. The players were like, 'That sure was a lot of dice rolling' ha To what benefit they were bemused.
New Era's automatic weapons fire (buckets of d20s at 1/4 skill AIR) sucked, but T:2000's buckets of d6s and count the 6s was simple & effective, I loved it enough to use it in AD&D when a lesser god PC visited Cyberpunk:2020 land and fought Arasaka Corporation. :D
Quote from: Gagarth;1130212Not sure about the rest but the Alien game has a very high rate unless you are ramped up with stress.
Now I'm curious how the Alien game differs from Mutant: Year Zero. Chances of success in MYZ do seem a bit low. If a 5 would also count as a success, how much would that change things up? That would be an easy fix.
Quote from: 3rik;1130275Now I'm curious how the Alien game differs from Mutant: Year Zero. Chances of success in MYZ do seem a bit low. If a 5 would also count as a success, how much would that change things up? That would be an easy fix.
If I recall my math correctly, a quick estimate using 5+ as a success would mean that:
1 die = 33%
2 dice = 56%
3 dice = 70%
4 dice = 80%
5 dice = 87%
That's without pushing, which is beyond my ability to figure out atm.
Quote from: rgalex;1130288If I recall my math correctly, a quick estimate using 5+ as a success would mean that:
1 die = 33%
2 dice = 56%
3 dice = 70%
4 dice = 80%
5 dice = 87%
That's without pushing, which is beyond my ability to figure out atm.
I'd personally assume people would not be pushing their rolls most of the time.
The average dice pool of a starting MYZ character would be what, two or three dice? If so, then I like this probability spread better and I may well implement this fix when running it.
Quote from: 3rik;1130335I'd personally assume people would not be pushing their rolls most of the time.
The average dice pool of a starting MYZ character would be what, two or three dice? If so, then I like this probability spread better and I may well implement this fix when running it.
Starting PCs are going to have between 2 and 4 in an attribute depending on how they spread their points. They can have a max of 3 in a Skill at character creation with a 5 max after that.
I don't care what you peeps think but I love the Mutant: Year Zero engine. I am happy Free League got the license. If they can do a bloody brilliant Alien game and do it justice, then I am confident this setting will be awesome.
Quote from: daddystabz;1130817I don't care what you peeps think but I love the Mutant: Year Zero engine.
So Nah-nah, ne nah-nah
Setting it in the year 2000 is a mistake. Nobody cares about rehashing the cold war in europe. They should have gone with Twilight 2040 - The Boogaloo. Fight in the near future chaos that will be europe and america.
Quote from: Hakdov;1130905Setting it in the year 2000 is a mistake. Nobody cares about rehashing the cold war in europe. They should have gone with Twilight 2040 - The Boogaloo. Fight in the near future chaos that will be europe and america.
The 80s that never was is kinda of their thing. What does that has to do with Twilight 2000? Well is probably means we will get a really well done RPG that written from a 1980s mentality about the Cold War. So it will have a heavy nostalgia factor.
Quote from: estar;1130923The 80s that never was is kinda of their thing. What does that has to do with Twilight 2000? Well is probably means we will get a really well done RPG that written from a 1980s mentality about the Cold War. So it will have a heavy nostalgia factor.
[X]
Nobody has gotten T2k right since GDW's first revision of the game. Yes, I'm playing Twilight 2000 edition wars, but that's just how it is. Trying to move the timeline up to "somehow, the cold war keeps going after the 1991 fall of the Iron Curtain" was shite, GDW should've just tweaked the rules and left well enough alone with the plot. But 2013 came along and...ugh, it was just Not Good. But nobody seems to "get" what makes T2k great. What makes T2k great is that its "techbase" is on the cusp of "fighting with and over scraps of high-tech gear" and "fighting with entrenching tools, and crossbows made from rifle stocks"; it's of rolling hot with an M1A1 Abrams - for about six weeks, then your fuel completely runs out, and you become a bunker, bartering your main gun shell casings and other scrounged brass for
just enough fuel (or a small still) to keep the APU running so you don't freeze in your Chobam-armored pillbox on winter nights. It's about encountering a BMD-1 (the entirety of a Soviet "motor rifle company"'s armor) and watching as the Rube Goldberg cascade of effects happens when you decide, yes, we've
got to use our lone LAW rocket to take it out and you get a hit and start rolling percentile dice. It's about making the hard decision to leave or not leave the two seriously wounded guys who can't be moved, because you
must get to Bremerhaven before November if you want to go home...unless a three-to-four year journey on foot across Siberia and
maybe getting a ride across into a Soviet-occupied Alaska thrills your group.
But T2k isn't and never was about a "lightweight fantasy rule-set". So you can keep the new version.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1130924[X]But T2k isn't and never was about a "lightweight fantasy rule-set". So you can keep the new version.
Yeah I am not seeing how you get that from what I wrote.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1130924Nobody has gotten T2k right since GDW's first revision of the game.
I concur. I thought T2000 1e was OK but what sealed the deal for me that it became the background for 2300 AD which was awesome.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1130924Yes, I'm playing Twilight 2000 edition wars, but that's just how it is. Trying to move the timeline up to "somehow, the cold war keeps going after the 1991 fall of the Iron Curtain" was shite, GDW should've just tweaked the rules and left well enough alone with the plot.
Well the thing is that Free League is highly likely to keep the 1e premise as is. It kinda of their thing.
Quote from: estar;1130927Well the thing is that Free League is highly likely to keep the 1e premise as is.
Then shackle it to a meta-gaming abstract dice game.
Quote from: estar;1130927I concur. I thought T2000 1e was OK but what sealed the deal for me that it became the background for 2300 AD which was awesome.
The original 2300 was pretty alright! It was unfortunate that it was initially released as Traveller: 2300 AD. Traveller people were like, 'eh not Traveller', and people looking for a new game were like 'eh Traveller'.
Quote from: Gagarth;1130887So Nah-nah, ne nah-nah
You forgot the part of me also saying "take that, heretics!"
I would have no problem with a retro 80s-Cold-War-gone-hot backstory. That is probably the safe option.
Then again it shouldn't be too hard to whip up a new backstory involving "western allies" (minus France of course), vs China and Russia. Plus India v Pakistan and Iran v Arabs theatres, and probably some more in Africa. I am definitely not saying this is a likely geopolitical outcome given today's circumstances, just a plausible one (and maybe more plausible than it was 5 yrs ago).
Although you do sort of need to know what you are talking about to do this, which is why I say sticking with the 80s Cold War is the safe option. I remember reading a very funny and absolutely brutal review of Twilight 2013, I think on TBP (of all places), pointing out in grim, relentless detail just how bad the setting was, both on the geopolitics and the survivalist side. (The guy didn't like the system either.)
And yeah, 2300 is one of my favourite things of all time to come out of RPGs. Not the game system so much, but the setting, especially the aliens. I would love to run that setting with BRP.
Quote from: Hakdov;1130905They should have gone with Twilight 2040 - The Boogaloo. Fight in the near future chaos that will be europe and america.
Somehow that's more grim than the original T2k.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1131063Somehow that's more grim than the original T2k.
That's because in Twilight 2000, the goal for many was "getting back home" from Europe to the USA. That usually meant finding passage on the few ships or aircraft still operating. In that alternate version, "getting back home" would require a time machine.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1131063Somehow that's more grim than the original T2k.
Because it's more believable and likely today than a new world war with Russia.
Did any of you run T2K from the Polish or Russian perspective?
I played in a convention one-shot where we were the Russians and it was Paranoia with tanks.
Not specifically, but we did have a Polish defector with our (primarily) US group. He was very helpful with the languages and was trained as a mechanic, but I don't really recall exactly why the fuck he was with us and why he stuck with us all the way through Germany and Denmark (where we caught a ship headed back to the USA). I recall that his player said he wasn't going to the US, but was going to head back to Poland. Again, not sure if the character had any real motivations.
TW2000 was my game of choice back in the day. 1st ed is still the best edition. I don't do kickstarter anymore, been ripped off one too many times. I doubt I'll be supporting this.
Is it weird that I sorta want to see someone do a "Twilight of the Dead" campaign using the Twilight 2000 rules and survivalist themes in a zombie setting?
Not only would you have to fear the zombies, but there's also raiders and looters, and more mundane threats like starvation, dehydration, disease, and extreme weather.
Maybe also add some creatures from Doom too, I dunno.
I played the original Twilight: 2000 back in the 80's when I was in college. I'd love to find a toolkit to replace it, but what I really want these days is a straightforward set of RPG rules, and then use some kind of customized Roll20 style app to handle all the detail work. That way you could do detailed autofire rules, and have things like ammo counters that count down for each weapon, without the players getting buried in the details.
Quote from: Lurkndog;1134003I played the original Twilight: 2000 back in the 80's when I was in college. I'd love to find a toolkit to replace it, but what I really want these days is a straightforward set of RPG rules, and then use some kind of customized Roll20 style app to handle all the detail work. That way you could do detailed autofire rules, and have things like ammo counters that count down for each weapon, without the players getting buried in the details.
Damn, I also want such an app, take all the bean counting away from me as a player or GM? I would LOVE for such a thing to exist.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1134008Damn, I also want such an app, take all the bean counting away from me as a player or GM? I would LOVE for such a thing to exist.
There is a community created Twilight 2000 2.2 sheet on Roll20 and there are various ammo counter API scripts but I am not sure how much work they would take to apply. The only downside is Roll20 are bunch of SJW fascists.
Personally, tally marks are fast and easy and less trouble than fiddling with an app.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1134008Damn, I also want such an app, take all the bean counting away from me as a player or GM? I would LOVE for such a thing to exist.
Back in the 90's, one of my friends cobbled together an app out of HyperCard on the Mac that did just that. It let him select Player 1, Weapon 1 shoots NPC Gary, Full Auto, and click OK, and it would calculate the shot, then do damage and hit locations for each bullet fired, and plot it all on a human outline.
It worked well at first, but eventually HyperCard proved to be its Achilles' Heel.
A group of his former players have talked about reviving it on a modern platform, but I don't know where that effort stands.
If they can build a system in Java that manages all the numbers for a Battletech game (MegaMek), they can probably code an app to handle gunplay in T2000.
What is going on now in 2020 in the Twilight 2000 timeline? What would that world be like? What if Elon Musk survived in this timeline? I hear he grew up in South Africa, but in 2000 he would be doing Pay Pal I think. It's interesting to think of what rockets he might be building.
Quote from: rgalex;1129965I had the opposite problem. It was very rare for the PCs to ever really fail anything that was part of their "thing". The worst that usually happened is they succeeded but didn't get any extra successes for stunts. Outside of their "thing" they still had pretty decent odds with only a minor amount of levels in a skill or some gear to help.
this is why I gave up on forbidden lands. Once you have the right talent combinations, which thanks to bad advancement pricing are always the right decisions, player's only succeeded at the areas you were good at, and then my whole game prep / effort creativity went into figuring out how to still challenge them.
The Kickstarter's up (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was) and already funded.
Quote from: Snark Knight;1144520The Kickstarter's up (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was) and already funded.
System update information is interesting to me, and the art looks good enough. I'll probably throw some money at this.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1144522System update information is interesting to me, and the art looks good enough. I'll probably throw some money at this.
Fuck ammo dice.
I thought they were going to do a middle east map and expansion? Instead the other major map is of Sweden. They added four tactical maps. No one needs tactical maps though, we can all come up with our own. A nice map of Iraq or Afghanistan, Ukraine, or Israel, along with a sourcebook would be interesting! I don't need a rehash of the original, already have it. Want somethjing new!
Twilight 2000 Redux Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description)
Twilight 2000 Redux Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description)[/QUOTE]
Also have zero interest in base dice, hit location dice, and ammo dice. I despise custom dice for the record. Just like generic all-purpose dice. For the record they should include a set of normal polyhedral dice and just do tables in the rules book for all that. As it is I'm not in. I want to see some more 2020 Expansion material, and they should have named it Twilight 2040! in 1985 we got Twilight 2000 which was about the future!
I thought they were going to do a middle east map and expansion? Instead the other major map is of Sweden. They added four tactical maps. No one needs tactical maps though, we can all come up with our own. A nice map of Iraq or Afghanistan, Ukraine, or Israel, along with a sourcebook would be interesting! I don't need a rehash of the original, already have it. Want somethjing new!
Twilight 2000 Redux Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description)
Also have zero interest in base dice, hit location dice, and ammo dice. I despise custom dice for the record. Just like generic all-purpose dice. For the record they should include a set of normal polyhedral dice and just do tables in the rules book for all that. As it is I'm not in. I want to see some more 2020 Expansion material, and they should have named it Twilight 2040! in 1985 we got Twilight 2000 which was about the future!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description
Hm, looks really good to me! I definitely think retro play fighting the USSR is the way to go, though I would have diverged the timeline in 1984 not 1991. By 1991 the Reagan military buildup has given the USA full spectrum dominance for the first time. Although T:2000 does have the fighting centre in Warsaw Pact territory rather than in say France & the Low Countries, which seemed likelier in 1984 when the Soviet tank armies still looked pretty unstoppable.
Quote from: S'mon;1144669https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description
Hm, looks really good to me! I definitely think retro play fighting the USSR is the way to go, though I would have diverged the timeline in 1984 not 1991. By 1991 the Reagan military buildup has given the USA full spectrum dominance for the first time. Although T:2000 does have the fighting centre in Warsaw Pact territory rather than in say France & the Low Countries, which seemed likelier in 1984 when the Soviet tank armies still looked pretty unstoppable.
I was interested until I saw "dice with special symbols". No thanks. I'll pass on that game mechanic every time.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1144666Also have zero interest in base dice, hit location dice, and ammo dice. I despise custom dice for the record. Just like generic all-purpose dice. For the record they should include a set of normal polyhedral dice and just do tables in the rules book for all that.
As some of the pledges are for pdf only, I think they will probably have the tables in them to do the conversions for those using regular dice.
You guys seem to be misunderstanding the dice. They aren't custom dice. They are themed dice (well, except for the hit location one). These are no different than dice with skulls on the 1s side and an explosion on the highest value side. There is no table needed for converting anything.
The system is 2 dice, one for skill and one for attribute. The higher the skill or attribute the higher die type you use: d6, d8, d10 or d12. You roll and look at each die individually. A 1 is a Bust result. 2-5 is a fail. 6-9 is a success. 10+ is 2 successes.
Quote from: rgalex;1144686You guys seem to be misunderstanding the dice. They aren't custom dice. They are themed dice (well, except for the hit location one). These are no different than dice with skulls on the 1s side and an explosion on the highest value side. There is no table needed for converting anything.
The system is 2 dice, one for skill and one for attribute. The higher the skill or attribute the higher die type you use: d6, d8, d10 or d12. You roll and look at each die individually. A 1 is a Bust result. 2-5 is a fail. 6-9 is a success. 10+ is 2 successes.
From the Kickstarter:
"The engraved Base Dice have custom symbols to support the game rules, but function as normal dice as well."
"Custom symbols to support the game rules" is either clumsily inaccurate, or exactly correct. If the latter, I'm not interested. If the former, I'm not impressed.
Quote from: rgalex;1144686You guys seem to be misunderstanding the dice. They aren't custom dice. They are themed dice (well, except for the hit location one). These are no different than dice with skulls on the 1s side and an explosion on the highest value side. There is no table needed for converting anything.
The system is 2 dice, one for skill and one for attribute. The higher the skill or attribute the higher die type you use: d6, d8, d10 or d12. You roll and look at each die individually. A 1 is a Bust result. 2-5 is a fail. 6-9 is a success. 10+ is 2 successes.
Kind of like Savage Worlds? (I wish Attributes played more of a role in SW than just skill caps and raw checks).
Quote from: RandyB;1144690From the Kickstarter:
"The engraved Base Dice have custom symbols to support the game rules, but function as normal dice as well."
"Custom symbols to support the game rules" is either clumsily inaccurate, or exactly correct. If the latter, I'm not interested. If the former, I'm not impressed.
It's like the World of Darkness dice where they were d10s, with 1-10 printed on them, but 8, 9 and 10 were a different color so you could easily tell if it was a success or not. Granted they say that the dice are not the final design, but it looks like all the faces still have a number on them. The 1 also has a bust symbol, the 6-9 have a success symbol and 10+ have 2 success symbols.
So, yeah, exactly what it says. Supports the game rules but are normal dice.
Quote from: rgalex;1144696It's like the World of Darkness dice where they were d10s, with 1-10 printed on them, but 8, 9 and 10 were a different color so you could easily tell if it was a success or not. Granted they say that the dice are not the final design, but it looks like all the faces still have a number on them. The 1 also has a bust symbol, the 6-9 have a success symbol and 10+ have 2 success symbols.
So, yeah, exactly what it says. Supports the game rules but are normal dice.
And it's the game rules having unique die results that facilitate custom dice that is the turn off.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1133891Is it weird that I sorta want to see someone do a "Twilight of the Dead" campaign using the Twilight 2000 rules and survivalist themes in a zombie setting?
Not only would you have to fear the zombies, but there's also raiders and looters, and more mundane threats like starvation, dehydration, disease, and extreme weather.
Maybe also add some creatures from Doom too, I dunno.
Isn't that game called All Flesh Must Be Eaten? Actually, I wonder how well its rules would work in for T2K? My concern with the engine behind MY0 is that it just lacks the detail. Not as bad as FATE maybe, but I think a lot of weapons and vehicles are just going to blur together. I don't need GURPS level of detail, but I think there should be a mechanical difference between an M-16 and a AK-47. A setting in 2040 should be easy to do. China decides to take advantage of western nations' political weaknesses and touches off WWIII in the process. Well, it seemed a good idea at the time. You just need to update some TOE tables. Most of the high tech gear and gadgets that we have is going to be worthless a week after no power, so that setting should end up feeling pretty similar to the original.
Quote from: zend0g;1144940Isn't that game called All Flesh Must Be Eaten? Actually, I wonder how well its rules would work in for T2K? My concern with the engine behind MY0 is that it just lacks the detail. Not as bad as FATE maybe, but I think a lot of weapons and vehicles are just going to blur together. I don't need GURPS level of detail, but I think there should be a mechanical difference between an M-16 and a AK-47. A setting in 2040 should be easy to do. China decides to take advantage of western nations' political weaknesses and touches off WWIII in the process. Well, it seemed a good idea at the time. You just need to update some TOE tables. Most of the high tech gear and gadgets that we have is going to be worthless a week after no power, so that setting should end up feeling pretty similar to the original.
Well you are going to be disappointed there are ammo dice so the best you are probably going to get is rifle,pistol etc. They seemed to to be going with a 2000 start date and the timeline from 2.2. I am sure the timeline will be suitably massaged so the UK and the United States are basically Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany who start the conflict. Gotta keep the Neo-Marxist scum happy in case they come around loot your house, burn it down and shot your kid in the back of the head when he is bicycling around your driveway.
Quote from: Gagarth;1144964Well you are going to be disappointed there are ammo dice so the best you are probably going to get is rifle,pistol etc. They seemed to to be going with a 2000 start date and the timeline from 2.2. I am sure the timeline will be suitably massaged so the UK and the United States are basically Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany who start the conflict. Gotta keep the Neo-Marxist scum happy in case they come around loot your house, burn it down and shot your kid in the back of the head when he is bicycling around your driveway.
Yes, that is what I cynically expect.
Additional comment on AFMBE, if you didn't like D&D's base d20 mechanic as it is too swingy, then AFMBE's d10 base mechanic is going to nag you too. Plus, every time I pick up AFMBE I alwasy think "Why not use GURPS and just not go crazy on the rules?" But there are some web sites out there like texaszombie.com that have such nice resources for AFMBE.
They are planning a deluxe gear section with tons of illustrated guns. If they don't differentiate an AK from a M-16 I don't know what they're doing.
Quote from: Itachi;1144983They are planning a deluxe gear section with tons of illustrated guns. If they don't differentiate an AK from a M-16 I don't know what they're doing.
Yeah, I was looking over MY0's section for artifacts of pre-fall weapons and... Let's just say this will be hilarious. That system just doesn't have much if any room for variety.
Quote from: Itachi;1144983They are planning a deluxe gear section with tons of illustrated guns. If they don't differentiate an AK from a M-16 I don't know what they're doing.
Well, it's
illustrated, so the guns will all
look different, but that might be about all.
Quote from: Gagarth;1144964Well you are going to be disappointed there are ammo dice so the best you are probably going to get is rifle,pistol etc. They seemed to to be going with a 2000 start date and the timeline from 2.2. I am sure the timeline will be suitably massaged so the UK and the United States are basically Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany who start the conflict. Gotta keep the Neo-Marxist scum happy in case they come around loot your house, burn it down and shot your kid in the back of the head when he is bicycling around your driveway.
I doubt that.
Twilight 2000 is built on explicitly pro-Western and anti-communist setting assumptions and since this is also specifically an alternate history, it gives them a bit more wiggle room.
Also keep in mind that T2K is the kind of IP that wouldn't draw in SJW's to begin with since they all cling to D&D 5E, Pathfinder 2E, Onyx Path/V5, and Powered By The Apocalypse and it's also a revival that can't afford the level of reckless wokeness that WOTC and Paizo can or that was always there from the start with Onyx Path and Evil Hat
As dire as things are, I think the Marxists will still be the bad guys in Twilight 2000 and at most they might get a bone thrown their way in the form of a "but the Soviets weren't real communists/muh Anarcho-Communism" throwaway line or disclaimer box that has no bearing on the game beyond a bare minimum "Cover Your Own Ass" measure against RPG.net and their ilk
What's the setting like in terms of groups and powers? Is it changed much from real world?
Quote from: Itachi;1145113What's the setting like in terms of groups and powers? Is it changed much from real world?
I'm pretty sure that the Soviets & Warsaw Pact are still the bad guys well past their expiration in the real world.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1145121I'm pretty sure that the Soviets & Warsaw Pact are still the bad guys well past their expiration in the real world.
But it is so easy to change though. Plus, if you move it to a more modern timeline, PCs will better access to body armor which helps with the lethality of the setting.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1145121I'm pretty sure that the Soviets & Warsaw Pact are still the bad guys well past their expiration in the real world.
They are going with the Moscow coup succeeded setup. So it looks like Pact v NATO is still the thing.
Quote from: zend0g;1145129But it is so easy to change though. Plus, if you move it to a more modern timeline, PCs will better access to body armor which helps with the lethality of the setting.
Doesn't really matter since T2000 is a survival game. If they really are trying to keep it gritty as they claim, 2020 body armor vs 2000 body armor won't make much difference for a PC due to equipment deterioration.
It shouldn't be too difficult to generate stats for newer equipment.
Just find some military equipment guides at your local used book store and go.
Body armor can't defend against dysentery. :p
Quote from: Itachi;1145136Body armor can't defend against dysentery. :p
True that. :D
A pack of Depends will let you stay buttoned up in the tank for up to 24 hours but not if you have dysentery.
Quote from: Itachi;1145136Body armor can't defend against dysentery. :p
Is this Twilight 2000 or the Oregon Trail? :D
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145150Is this Twilight 2000 or the Oregon Trail? :D
I don't know that the survival rate was much different in either game... ;)
...although I don't remember ever losing my Oregon Trail party to a claymore.
Quote from: Itachi;1145136Body armor can't defend against dysentery. :p
Well, with today's gamers, somebody is bound to try to spread dysentery with tainted bullets.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1144994Well, it's illustrated, so the guns will all look different, but that might be about all.
To be fair, the gun stat differences in the 1.0, 2.0, and 2.2 editions of Twilight 2000 were not all that noteworthy. There were a tiny sliver of weapons players avoided equipping, but that was about it.
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1145164To be fair, the gun stat differences in the 1.0, 2.0, and 2.2 editions of Twilight 2000 were not all that noteworthy. There were a tiny sliver of weapons players avoided equipping, but that was about it.
Yes, but it is no where close to even those levels. In MY0 for artifact weapons, I think a pistol was 2 damage and a rifle and assault rifle was 2 damage but can shoot out to long range or something that effect. I think my my players would abject to a .30-06 doing the same damage as a 9mm. But I guess we will see what they can do with it.
Twilight:2000 Q&A with Tomas Härenstam, Free League Publishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8aXbdMHtI&feature=em-lbrm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8aXbdMHtI&feature=em-lbrm)
Quote from: Gagarth;1145208Twilight:2000 Q&A with Tomas Härenstam, Free League Publishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8aXbdMHtI&feature=em-lbrm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8aXbdMHtI&feature=em-lbrm)
Very interesting interview, thanks!
I suspect this will be the project where they fuse all the ideas developed from previous games together: Survival and exploration mechanisms from Mutant and Forbidden Lands, Coolness under stress from Alien, Bonds with teammates from Tales from the loop, etc, etc, etc. The system will be more granular for sure, but he says he would like for those mechanics to be faster and playable rather than slow and super crunchy. I'm optimistic.
Edit: ...and the Base building (and maintaining and defending) stretch goal is reached!
The T2k Kickstarter has 2 days left. It's at $537k so its obviously catching interest.
What's everyone's thoughts on backing it?
It's clearly quite different from a system perspective, but do you feel the original concepts will still vibrant at the table?
It's odd because when it came out T2K was a possible future and now it's an alternate-recent past and I am unsure how Alt-Recent Past will play out at the table. It's one thing to play CoC in the 1920s (or 1970s as I prefer) because it might as well be a different world.
Something tells me I need to re-imagine a "fantasy T2K" for my players if I ever want to run a wartime survival RPG. Hmm....
Quote from: Spinachcat on September 01, 2020, 09:32:03 PM
The T2k Kickstarter has 2 days left. It's at $537k so its obviously catching interest.
What's everyone's thoughts on backing it?
I'm out.
Of course I already have the original. I was ok with them re-releasing the classic beginning adventure
"Escape From Kalisz" set in Poland, However I really wanted them to expand on that and add some new adventure areas, Like say, The Ukraine for example, since the Ukraine has applied to be a member of NATO. I also wanted to see new campaign settings, Maybe Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Northern Africa... you know, where we have U.S. troops now. And of course all the weapons and equipment upgrades, M4s, LAVs, EoD Humbers, M1s, Soviet T-14 Armata's, T-90's, BMP-3's Jakanaders, Tigrs, BTR-90's, Uran-9 Combat Drones, Ural-90's, Kornet-D's, 2S3 Akatsiya, Kurganets-25 like that, along with more modern American vehicles too like LAV-25's, Strykers, Cougars, Caiman, and Buffaloes, M1117 Gaurdians, and of course MAXXPRo's.
Quote from: Spinachcat on September 01, 2020, 09:32:03 PM
The T2k Kickstarter has 2 days left. It's at $537k so its obviously catching interest.
What's everyone's thoughts on backing it?
It's clearly quite different from a system perspective, but do you feel the original concepts will still vibrant at the table?
It's odd because when it came out T2K was a possible future and now it's an alternate-recent past and I am unsure how Alt-Recent Past will play out at the table. It's one thing to play CoC in the 1920s (or 1970s as I prefer) because it might as well be a different world.
Something tells me I need to re-imagine a "fantasy T2K" for my players if I ever want to run a wartime survival RPG. Hmm....
I backed it, I'm a big fan of PA gaming and I like what they did with Alien. I'm gld they are not just re-skinning Alien or one of their other games, but the core system with changes to reflect the setting seems like it has some potential to me.
Twilight 2000 is a setting, one where the cold war plays a strong part, so I like that they stayed with the original time frame. I preferred the rule set in v2, but never cared for their updated timeline. For me a PA game set 10 or 20 years in the future of our current timeline would be just another PA game using an old title. I might still buy that game, but not because it was Twilight 2000, and in fact that would have been a sticking point I would have to get past.
I don't see any issue with with playing a game set in 2000 based on where things were in 1986, just as I wouldn't have an issue playing a game in set in the 1930s with airships and sky pirates (Sky Captain, Crimson Skies, Things to Come etc). I've always hoped for a good RPG development of Iron Storm (2002 video game) set in a 1960s where WW1 never ended so what if historical games don't bother me one bit.
Damn, I lost the KS. I think I'll have to wait for retail.
So, the Alpha rules dropped today for Twilight:2000 by the Free League.
It's very pretty. And looking through the rules, I get a good sense of the post-apocalyptic world that the writers are trying to set up. Lots of game-able stuff for diseases, starvation, all that good stuff.
What's clear to me upon reading the history/set-up is that the writers are absolutely lost at sea. There's a lot of stuff missing in their write-up: nothing on China & Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, Turkey and the Black Sea region, Balkans, and Persian Gulf, to name a few important geo-strategic places that seem to be missing. Instead, we get the Russians invading the UK in 1999, Northern France is now a radioactive wasteland, and in 1998 the Syrians, supported by the USSR, attack Israel, which responds by using tactical nuclear weapons on the West Bank to stop the invasion. There's lots and lots on Poland, which is good. We also get a lot of stuff on Sweden, which is neat, sure. There's more written about Sweden here than the USA, which I suppose is to be expected.
I'm totally fine with some gonzo stuff, but I'm disappointed. It's the Alpha though.
Quote from: zend0g on August 16, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
But it is so easy to change though. Plus, if you move it to a more modern timeline, PCs will better access to body armor which helps with the lethality of the setting.
Well, the enemy just makes bigger rounds or IEDs. So it comes out even. The real difference is modern medical care. The number of deaths as a fraction of all casualties massively dropped (https://stats.areppim.com/stats/stats_afghanxdeadxwound.htm) from WWII to Korea and Vietnam for the US, from deaths being 36% of all casualties to 27% because more troops were trained in first aid which they applied within 5 minutes, and helicopters were able to whisk people away to trauma care within 20 minutes. Nowadays it's 12-18%.
In a T2k-style scenario, everything's turned to shit. Helicopters are not whisking you away to field hospitals - field hospitals may not even exist. And so you're left with whatever your own team can do for you. You should hope someone rolls up a medic.
Wow...I can't believe Free League fucked up the timeline this bad.
If I even had any remote interest in it, it just faded away.
Can't wait for this to hit.
And man, that art. :o
(https://www.rpgpub.com/attachments/1606435777339-png.24488/)
Anyone know what the Operation Reset they mention is about?
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 27, 2020, 11:10:38 AM
Anyone know what the Operation Reset they mention is about?
From the Referee Manual
QuoteOPERATION RESET
In the long run, mere survival is not enough. Even in a bleak setting like Twilight : 2000, there needs to be some
hope for a better world, somewhere on the horizon that offers the promise of something better, no matter how
distant or desperate reaching it might be. In this game, that hope is represented by Operation Reset.
Initially, players will know of Operation Reset as the failed NATO military offensive toward Warsaw and Stockholm
in the spring of 2000. But as they may learn during the course of the game, that military offensive was only
a piece of a much larger puzzle.
Operation Reset is a massive, long-term undertaking, initiated by what remains of the leadership of the US and
its NATO allies, to restore the world to some semblance of civilization. The operation includes the acquisition of key
information, geography, and technology, and the military offensive was one part of this larger objective.
Some intel about this plan has leaked to rivals and even enemies, triggering a secret war between the four
intelligence agencies the CIA, DIA, KGB, and GRU (see chapter 3 of this book).
The true nature of Project Reset will be revealed in future modules, but you can drop some mentions of it into your
game right from the start of your campaign. Let the name "Operation Reset" be whispered by campfires, scribbled on
broken walls, or overheard in garbled radio transmissions.
Don't explain it (yet), just let the players ponder it, a codeword for mystery and hope for a better future.
That's dumb. That's more than dumb.
Operation Reset in 1e was a massive spec-ops operation during the final offensive drive of the 5th to seize a university's research department in Poland. They had invented a sort of TTL-logic FPGA that allowed you to hand-wire an emulator of modern computer processors and get data centers, banking centers, communication systems, and so on, up and running again after the EMP damaged so many of them. Thus allowing the holder of that technology to start working on things like disaster recovery and resource allocation, weather forecasting and perhaps most importantly, census tallying to allow a new Congress to be put in place and a new President to be elected instead of the duck soup CivGov was trying to create.
Jesus I hate to be "that guy" again but wow does this new version sound like shite.
Quote from: Itachi on November 27, 2020, 10:52:35 AM
Can't wait for this to hit.
And man, that art. :o
(https://www.rpgpub.com/attachments/1606435777339-png.24488/)
The art is spectacular. They really hit the tone and mood of the game right. I am tinkering around with the mechanics, and thus far they seem pretty good. It's definitely not a military simulation RPG. Though you can roll a bucket of D6s for autofire, so I can't complain too loudly about mechanics.
The setting/background is terrible. I mean, bad.
I am surprised that they turned Operation RESET into a bigger thing in the setting than a special operations mission. I was rankled that they would release more information in later supplements like some sort of 90s metaplot game (mea culpa, I love Heavy Gear's metaplot). But I did think about it: the original Twilight:2000 had a whole series of modules that were essentially all-but-metaplot.
But that background needs to be expunged.
Thanks for the info. The backstory does sound kinda lame indeed.
How easy is it to purge all that and use only the mechanics? (I would probably use it for some Stalker-like slavpocalypse anyway).
Quote from: Itachi on November 27, 2020, 02:48:01 PM
Thanks for the info. The backstory does sound kinda lame indeed.
How easy is it to purge all that and use only the mechanics? (I would probably use it for some Stalker-like slavpocalypse anyway).
Hehe. Slavpocalype.
Pretty easy, honestly. The mood and tone are just right.
Quote from: Heavy Josh on November 27, 2020, 06:57:53 PM
Quote from: Itachi on November 27, 2020, 02:48:01 PM
Thanks for the info. The backstory does sound kinda lame indeed.
How easy is it to purge all that and use only the mechanics? (I would probably use it for some Stalker-like slavpocalypse anyway).
Hehe. Slavpocalype.
Pretty easy, honestly. The mood and tone are just right.
Thanks! Are you Slav by the way? It wasn't my intention to sound offensive. I'm just a junkie for that kind of fiction.
(I've read Roadside Picnic twice, watch Stalker the movie thrice and played the videogames for hundreds of hours ;D )
Quote from: Itachi on November 27, 2020, 08:53:20 PM
Quote from: Heavy Josh on November 27, 2020, 06:57:53 PM
Quote from: Itachi on November 27, 2020, 02:48:01 PM
Thanks for the info. The backstory does sound kinda lame indeed.
How easy is it to purge all that and use only the mechanics? (I would probably use it for some Stalker-like slavpocalypse anyway).
Hehe. Slavpocalype.
Pretty easy, honestly. The mood and tone are just right.
Thanks! Are you Slav by the way? It wasn't my intention to sound offensive. I'm just a junkie for that kind of fiction.
(I've read Roadside Picnic twice, watch Stalker the movie thrice and played the videogames for hundreds of hours ;D )
No no, not Slav. I just hadn't heard the term before, but I knew exactly what you meant. :)
https://www.vitalykuzmin.net/
I was a big fan of 1e and have everything released for it. Kind of meh on 2e. But the mechanics of Free League's previous games (MY0/Coriolis/TftL/Alien/etc.) leaves me cold to the idea of this new edition, and if the history of the setting has been changed as has been written about here, then I'm just going to have to sigh and take a hard pass.
Quote from: Heavy Josh on November 26, 2020, 03:22:52 PM
So, the Alpha rules dropped today for Twilight:2000 by the Free League.
It's very pretty. And looking through the rules, I get a good sense of the post-apocalyptic world that the writers are trying to set up. Lots of game-able stuff for diseases, starvation, all that good stuff.
What's clear to me upon reading the history/set-up is that the writers are absolutely lost at sea. There's a lot of stuff missing in their write-up: nothing on China & Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, Turkey and the Black Sea region, Balkans, and Persian Gulf, to name a few important geo-strategic places that seem to be missing. Instead, we get the Russians invading the UK in 1999, Northern France is now a radioactive wasteland, and in 1998 the Syrians, supported by the USSR, attack Israel, which responds by using tactical nuclear weapons on the West Bank to stop the invasion. There's lots and lots on Poland, which is good. We also get a lot of stuff on Sweden, which is neat, sure. There's more written about Sweden here than the USA, which I suppose is to be expected.
I'm totally fine with some gonzo stuff, but I'm disappointed. It's the Alpha though.
France getting nuked means the 2300AD timeline must be junked, which would be a negative point for me (as the 2300AD setting is one of my favourite things in SF ever, not just RPGs). Although I suppose I can't really criticise them for not writing exactly the game I would have wanted.
From what people are saying, it seems the background might have some plausibility fails. That is a shame. I don't understand why professional RPG companies struggle with this. Not asking for a PhD level analysis, but it can't be that hard to find a consultant with enough knowledge of history and geopolitics to write something functional for people who read things other than comic books and RPGs. I never bought Twilight 2013 but apparently its background is laughable.