I just got my first "Powered by the Apocalypse" game, and I haven't got to the part of the game system. My previous experience is with other systems more in the vein of D&D in its different editions. PbtA games are very different from other games? What seems more notorious is the use of playbooks (like classes?) that only one character can choose (for variety, I guess?).

Which is your opinion about PbtA games? Do you have any advice or recommendation for someone new to them?

I think you have to approach it, as its own thing; and run with it.  My only experience with PbtA games, is Dungeon World.  The 2d6 mechanic, and 3 possible outcomes for every dice roll, including "success with a hitch or complication"; forces it into being a more narrative gaming experience.

Don't take anything as prescriptive for every game. The way hard moves work by default is mostly intended to assist the new or lazy(me, lol) GM. It's a pacing mechanism, more or less. Actually, a lot of the GM advice in Apocalypse World is intended to take someone from novice to competent GM - training wheels, basically. Powered by the Apocalypse was designed to be incredibly easy to run - something I think a lot of later PbtA games, ironically including Apocalypse World 2e, lost sight of - and Baker succeeded. The list of hard moves is basically there for inspiration, too.

You can always allow multiple people to use the same Playbook. The 1 player per playbook thing is obviously intended to keep characters both thematically and mechanically differentiated. But if you and your group are okay with it, nothing's stopping you from having 5 Battle Babes in the same game.

A lot of PbtA moves involve choices, and a lot of them designate the player as the one who makes the choices. Not everyone cares for that amount  of control being given to someone who's not the designated GM. So that might be something you'd want to talk with your group about beforehand. A quick fix if you want the GM to have all the control is to just ignore the text and make all choices GM choice. But it's something to keep in mind.

Someone is eventually going to bring up Sex Moves. They are not what they sound like. They do not cause characters to have sex or anything like that. They describe the messy fallout from getting that close to someone in such dangerous circumstances(ie the post-apocalypse). A number of later games kept them and kept the name, again as a way to say "getting this close under these circumstances has consequences." Some have broader Intimacy Moves, which can be triggered by a good heart to heart chat, again to reinforce that getting close has consequences. And some do away with anything of the sort altogether, as they're just not appropriate for all genres.

But yeah, in general they are super easy to prep and run for. There are some things they do differently than more traditional games, which again is something you and your group will need to discuss.

Quote from: psiconauta_retro on July 11, 2021, 06:48:28 AM
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Which is your opinion about PbtA games? Do you have any advice or recommendation for someone new to them?

My experience of these is from Dungeon World and Monster of the Week. With the majority of play now being from the weekly Tuesday night Superhero game that my friend runs using a rewritten house-ruled variant of monster of the week mechanics.

These are 100% conventional RPGs.

They are rules light and have a very strong genre focus. - they enforce genre play in the mechanics.

They are not narrative. All the 3 possible outcomes stuff is simply a way for GM's to adjudicate the die roll in a consistent proscribed manner.

"playbooks" are just classes with class abilities all rolled into one. They are designed to be low-prep and have a set routine for the GM to make rulings on the fly for various situations.

The problem people seem to have with them is that they use a lot of 'storygame' nomenclature and terms. Which causes some confusion when people used to normal RPG terms are unable to mentally translate as they read through them.

So just approach them as a normal RPG with the traditional GM/player dynamic and you will be fine.

Most PBtA games do have a very specific playstyle that they intend you to buy into when running and playing the game.

That is usually what causes most who don't like them to bounce off their mechanics.

Quote from: Jaeger on July 11, 2021, 10:49:49 PM
These are 100% conventional RPGs.

This is coming from me.

Quote from: GeekEclectic on July 11, 2021, 11:27:32 PM
Are they though
*insert well chosen meme here*

This is coming from me.

The subset of Pbta that I'm familiar with?

Yes. Absolutely.

A conventional GM pc divide and play structure just like any other RPG.

They are just rules light rpg's with a tight genre focus.

It is the unconventional nomenclature used and the laser-beam genre focused style of play that can cause people to get confused.

What "meta" elements they have are fundamentally no different than what has been done in other rpg's.

IMHO  it is the presentation, and the way some variants will have rules for some odd things I.e. Apocalypse worlds "sex moves"  that can cause people to think that they are somehow looking at something fundamentally different  from other  more Conventionally  presented rpg's.

1) put it away

2) play the old West End Games Ghostbusters game instead

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
1) put it away

2) play the old West End Games Ghostbusters game instead

I love the old West End Games Ghostbusters game, I think it is brilliant!

Quote from: Jam The MF on July 11, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
I think you have to approach it, as its own thing; and run with it.  My only experience with PbtA games, is Dungeon World.  The 2d6 mechanic, and 3 possible outcomes for every dice roll, including "success with a hitch or complication"; forces it into being a more narrative gaming experience.

Ok, thank you, I will. I will take it for small test drives before I try it with a larger group.

Quote from: GeekEclectic on July 11, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
Don't take anything as prescriptive for every game. The way hard moves work by default is mostly intended to assist the new or lazy(me, lol) GM. It's a pacing mechanism, more or less. Actually, a lot of the GM advice in Apocalypse World is intended to take someone from novice to competent GM - training wheels, basically. Powered by the Apocalypse was designed to be incredibly easy to run - something I think a lot of later PbtA games, ironically including Apocalypse World 2e, lost sight of - and Baker succeeded. The list of hard moves is basically there for inspiration, too.

You can always allow multiple people to use the same Playbook. The 1 player per playbook thing is obviously intended to keep characters both thematically and mechanically differentiated. But if you and your group are okay with it, nothing's stopping you from having 5 Battle Babes in the same game.

A lot of PbtA moves involve choices, and a lot of them designate the player as the one who makes the choices. Not everyone cares for that amount  of control being given to someone who's not the designated GM. So that might be something you'd want to talk with your group about beforehand. A quick fix if you want the GM to have all the control is to just ignore the text and make all choices GM choice. But it's something to keep in mind.

Someone is eventually going to bring up Sex Moves. They are not what they sound like. They do not cause characters to have sex or anything like that. They describe the messy fallout from getting that close to someone in such dangerous circumstances(ie the post-apocalypse). A number of later games kept them and kept the name, again as a way to say "getting this close under these circumstances has consequences." Some have broader Intimacy Moves, which can be triggered by a good heart to heart chat, again to reinforce that getting close has consequences. And some do away with anything of the sort altogether, as they're just not appropriate for all genres.

But yeah, in general they are super easy to prep and run for. There are some things they do differently than more traditional games, which again is something you and your group will need to discuss.

Thank you for the insight, it does help me a lot, I will keep all this in mind. Im glad about the fact that it us supposed to make everything more simple, and even more that it will be with low prep.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
1) put it away

2) play the old West End Games Ghostbusters game instead

First edition Ghostbusters, or second?

As with WEG Star Wars, I find the second edition fills in a lot more details, but the writing just doesn't have the magic of the first edition.

Quote from: Jaeger on July 11, 2021, 10:49:49 PM

Quote from: psiconauta_retro on July 11, 2021, 06:48:28 AM
...
Which is your opinion about PbtA games? Do you have any advice or recommendation for someone new to them?

My experience of these is from Dungeon World and Monster of the Week. With the majority of play now being from the weekly Tuesday night Superhero game that my friend runs using a rewritten house-ruled variant of monster of the week mechanics.

These are 100% conventional RPGs.

They are rules light and have a very strong genre focus. - they enforce genre play in the mechanics.

They are not narrative. All the 3 possible outcomes stuff is simply a way for GM's to adjudicate the die roll in a consistent proscribed manner.

"playbooks" are just classes with class abilities all rolled into one. They are designed to be low-prep and have a set routine for the GM to make rulings on the fly for various situations.

The problem people seem to have with them is that they use a lot of 'storygame' nomenclature and terms. Which causes some confusion when people used to normal RPG terms are unable to mentally translate as they read through them.

So just approach them as a normal RPG with the traditional GM/player dynamic and you will be fine.

Most PBtA games do have a very specific playstyle that they intend you to buy into when running and playing the game.

That is usually what causes most who don't like them to bounce off their mechanics.

I find refreshing that you mentioned that they are not "more narrative" games, and I am glad about them being rules light. As it is a new system for me and for my players it will be more accessible. 

The 'storygame' nomenclature and terms do give the appearance that PbtA games are a different beast, but maybe they are not soooo different. Adjusting the game terms to more common RPG terms would make them more easy to recognize but maybe some of the flavor would be lost, so I will avoid it.

Quote from: Lurkndog on July 12, 2021, 09:57:32 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
1) put it away

2) play the old West End Games Ghostbusters game instead

First edition Ghostbusters, or second?

As with WEG Star Wars, I find the second edition fills in a lot more details, but the writing just doesn't have the magic of the first edition.

My experience with WEG Star Wars is very limited, so I cannot say. However, in regards to Ghostbusters, I also prefer the first edition very much; the additional details of the second edition do not add much to the game. On the other hand, the simplicity and elegance of the first edition make it superb.

Quote from: Lurkndog on July 12, 2021, 09:57:32 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 12, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
1) put it away

2) play the old West End Games Ghostbusters game instead

First edition Ghostbusters, or second?

As with WEG Star Wars, I find the second edition fills in a lot more details, but the writing just doesn't have the magic of the first edition.

I found scans of the original and the 2nd (Ghostbusters International), so I can say 'all of the above'.

I'm gonna run a one-shot for my group at some point.

Quote from: Jaeger on July 12, 2021, 03:51:53 AM
A conventional GM pc divide and play structure just like any other RPG.

They are just rules light rpg's with a tight genre focus.

It is the unconventional nomenclature used and the laser-beam genre focused style of play that can cause people to get confused.

I agree that they have a traditional GM/player divide. Still, I'd say the elements that are most non-traditional are:

1) Player-only rolls -- with GM hard moves instead of monster attacks or random encounter rolls

2) Variable meaning of success instead of GM-assigned difficulty

3) Unique PC moves instead of skills

#1 means that what are separate rolls in most traditional RPGs are combined in PbtA. This is most obvious in combat: There are only rolls by the player, and if the player fails, then the opponent succeeds. This means there can't be multiple rounds of both sides missing and no change, for example. PbtA also combines non-combat player rolls with random encounter rolls or other improvised difficulties. If the player fails in what would more traditionally be a skill roll, then the GM makes a "hard move" like an encounter or other setback. If there is no risk of encounter or difficulty, there is no roll.

#2 means that a succeeded roll means that the PC has done well *relative to what is expected*. If there is an extremely hard or impossible task, then it will typically require multiple rolls rather than a single roll with a serious penalty.

#3 means that characters are less detailed, though this is similar to some old-school games without skills (like OD&D or Basic). Characters only have archetype which is parallel to class (plus race-as-class). Characters can have unique moves, but there isn't a skill system.

My favorite PbtA game is Monster of the Week, and I've also played a Dungeon World campaign and one-shots of Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Sagas of the Icelanders, and Masks: A New Generation.