https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shadowdarkrpg/western-reaches
(https://i.kickstarter.com/assets/048/286/001/3977940b862e3e77e39ad20dbe8a32a3_original.png?anim=false&fit=cover&gravity=auto&height=576&origin=ugc&q=92&v=1740356985&width=1024&sig=Robr4BFrhKfLXddpll1M9CunSiITj3kkxIJ3kV%2BZ3YU%3D)
Pretty much as the title says and up to $700k USD at the time of this posting.. I am curious to hear what folks who are more into the OSR scene think about this newest addition to the Shadowdark line. And, yes, that includes the folks here who seem to have a torch stuck up their butts with regard to the product's initial success. :) As for me, I didn't back the original as I'm not particularly OSR inclined personally but I enjoyed following the project's development (at least once the OGL debacle tuned me into it) and like some of the ideas that went into it... just not enough to actually buy it though myself.
I'll probably back for the Cursed Scroll zines and pass on the hardback setting books. I homebrew my world, so the full setting is pricey. But the zines have the additional classes which look cool, and drop in micro-settings and adventures that are compatible with most d20 OSR-style games.
Backed it immediately. This combines, updates, and adds more features that were part of the cursed scroll zines into these books that are gorgeous leatherbound beauties.
The quality of the presentation and what we are getting was worth it at the highest tier.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 11, 2025, 01:58:45 PMBacked it immediately. This combines, updates, and adds more features that were part of the cursed scroll zines into these books that are gorgeous leatherbound beauties.
The quality of the presentation and what we are getting was worth it at the highest tier.
Totally agree! but sadly I just paid a plumber $675, and that is impacting my decision. I'll get the scrolls pdfs now and hopefully can pick up everything in physical version somewhere down the road.
Dislike shadowdark and so zero interest on anything for it here. I still don't understand how it's as popular as it is. It seems like nothing special yet has a huge cult following like it's the second coming. And for what? A standard OSR type game with advantage/disadvantage and a videogame torch mechanic? It seems about as mid as you can get and yet people fawn over it and act like that Kelsey chick is the second coming of Gygax.
Quote from: Nobleshield on March 11, 2025, 03:00:04 PMI still don't understand how it's as popular as it is.
I am a fan, so take this with a grain of salt. My response to your question is that Kelsey is personally engaging and likable, networks well, and created an RPG which she enjoys playing and loves to share her excitement with others. Oh, and she stays out of all the other RPG edition drama while leaning hard into the OSR space. That shit is contagious. I know that P&G used to have a marketing principle of "reasons to believe" in branding. Kelsey hits this one out of the park IMO
I dislike Shadowdark. I consider it dubious and it's not my thing, but it has many supporters and clearly speaks to a decently sized audience, a smashing success by any tabletop RPG standard in any year on any calendar.
Because I'm not going to play or run it, and because I don't like random level bonuses (sorry Pundit!) and don't like roll-to-cast mechanics (especially not the ones in her core rulebook), I just doubt I'll get any value out of it, so I probably won't even look at the new stuff.
Anyway though, if you like this stuff, good for you, I'm sure it will be jam packed with more of the stuff you like.
Quotepeople fawn over it and act like that Kelsey chick is the second coming of Gygax
So over on the shithole that is reddit, there are several either socialist or openly antifa people who jump all over any TTRPG related content to do politics. The subforums they hang out with are stuffed full of rainbow banners, they gravedance any of the old guard when they die (check the EGG threads if you like)... and some of those people are big posters and supporters of Shadowdark. Shadowdark also changed race to something else right before launch, just as wizards did it. And Kelsey makes either no comments on politics or almost no comments on politics.
So these are reasons to assume that she has some skin in the cultural war game, and simply hasn't chosen to open her mouth on the topic, much as Taylor Swift held back until 2020. Many here will look at this and say "well, she could actually go full activist and she hasn't", which is fair. But I think she's waiting for the right time and motivation to pull the mask off.
Hey, I could be wrong. That's just me. That's why I don't really trust her.
But hey, why
do some people think she's the second coming of Gygax? Well, she did something a lot of the writers in this industry can't fucking do- she wrote high level D&D 5e modules that work pretty well (high level D&D 5e is not exactly easy to design for, because it's not exactly well put together). That's extremely rare, and as far as I can tell she did that when WotC's alleged all-stars really couldn't. She has a really good grasp of a lot of things, and while that skill isn't super rare, it's definitely uncommon amongst the e-celebrity D&D crew. She's legitimately good at hard stuff.
So she's gonna have fans just based on that, which is what you would expect.
Congratulations to Kelsey!
I think this one is gonna leave the original kickstarter in the dust. Enough peeps are sick of WotC garbage.
8 hours in, she's over $1M raised with 1/2 the backers of the original KS. This is a wild success.
QuoteAnd Kelsey makes either no comments on politics or almost no comments on politics.
So these are reasons to assume that she has some skin in the cultural war game, and simply hasn't chosen to open her mouth on the topic, much as Taylor Swift held back until 2020.
Arcane library bans all topics around politics, if you post there and start spouting off on politics you are gone. Kelsey has spoken with RPG folks on both sides of the spectrum from left leaning to ultra conservative, she's friendly, cordial, and keeps the topic focused on gaming and the enjoyment TTRPG brings. In this vein she is the same as Troll Lord Games who does the same thing "We are here for games, not politics"
She's going to make bank and she knows , being a journalist before, that politics is divisive and removes customers from the proverbial pool. As Michael Jordan once said "Republican's buy shoes too." and that's the name of the game: Sell as many books as possible to as wide an audience as possible and stay the fuck out of the pig pen culture wars.
It looks decent but pretty much standard OSR stuff. Unfortunately I think that it might do the thing that irritated me with the original game, in that some of the people coming from 5e might think Shadowdark invented hexcrawls.
I did appreciate that the West Marches stuff gives some attribution for once. "West Marches is a gameplay style popularized by Ben Robbins in his blog, Ars Ludi."
Kelsey Dionne (small business owner) managed to make a good ruleset with good production values and market it well while staying out of the culture war and not crapping on her customers. The market responded in kind by buying it and enjoying it. Shadowdark deserves its success, whether it's your personal taste or not.
Quote from: Nobleshield on March 11, 2025, 03:00:04 PMDislike shadowdark and so zero interest on anything for it here. I still don't understand how it's as popular as it is. It seems like nothing special yet has a huge cult following like it's the second coming. And for what? A standard OSR type game with advantage/disadvantage and a videogame torch mechanic? It seems about as mid as you can get and yet people fawn over it and act like that Kelsey chick is the second coming of Gygax.
So, my regular group picked it up several months back. I've both played in it and run it, so I have some opinions, both positive and negative. I think I'll put them in a new thread or something soon.
In partial answer to you, I'll just say this. I find it very interesting that there are several names that I pretty much only see on Shadowdark threads recently. I would say that marketing is the greatest strength of the game, be it organic or manufactured...
Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 11, 2025, 01:58:45 PMBacked it immediately. This combines, updates, and adds more features that were part of the cursed scroll zines into these books that are gorgeous leatherbound beauties.
The quality of the presentation and what we are getting was worth it at the highest tier.
Greetings!
That's right, brother! I backed this project instantly, at the Premium Level as well. This looks absolutely awesome! I can hardly wait! So much goodness!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Nobleshield on March 11, 2025, 03:00:04 PMDislike shadowdark and so zero interest on anything for it here. I still don't understand how it's as popular as it is. It seems like nothing special yet has a huge cult following like it's the second coming. And for what? A standard OSR type game with advantage/disadvantage and a videogame torch mechanic? It seems about as mid as you can get and yet people fawn over it and act like that Kelsey chick is the second coming of Gygax.
I actually dont like Shadowdark personally. Though imo what i can tell that makes it popular is she had a built in audience with 5e players, and got a lot of buzz on youtube as well which helped build her audience further. I also think the art helps a lot. As an anecdote a lot of people ive seen bounce off OSE cause of its art liked Shadowdark. It helps that the game has a lot of third party content and stuff.
TBH im glad its become popular cause it seems to have stolen some of Mork Borgs thunder and the Shadowdark fans have been a lot easier to get along with than the Mork Borg people lol.
I've not played Shadowdark but I really like the art, the graphic design (especially compared to the unreadable Mork Borg style) and the simplicity of the system.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 12, 2025, 10:47:10 AMI've not played Shadowdark but I really like the art, the graphic design (especially compared to the unreadable Mork Borg style) and the simplicity of the system.
I'm in a similar boat. I like the idea of it in theory as someone who missed out on it but want a bit more in practice at the table.
(https://i.imgflip.com/9n4jww.jpg)
I'm not personally into SD, but it's good to see it's still having success. That puts the lie to the as goes WOTC so goes TTRPGs line. And I'm always glad to see wierd west settings.
Kelsey Dionne is simply very good at the business of TTRPG publishing. Unfortunately the existence of successful people and the compulsion to throw stones at them go hand in hand.
Quote from: Festus on March 12, 2025, 05:55:04 PMKelsey Dionne is simply very good at the business of TTRPG publishing. Unfortunately the existence of successful people and the compulsion to throw stones at them go hand in hand.
Sadly true. It is a solid enough game and marketed well, good for her!
Quote from: Venka on March 11, 2025, 06:10:34 PMSo these are reasons to assume that she has some skin in the cultural war game, and simply hasn't chosen to open her mouth on the topic, much as Taylor Swift held back until 2020. Many here will look at this and say "well, she could actually go full activist and she hasn't", which is fair. But I think she's waiting for the right time and motivation to pull the mask off.
Hey, I could be wrong. That's just me. That's why I don't really trust her.
I really don't see that happening. Taylor Swift and others spoke out during the past two USA presidential elections. If Kelsey is a die-hard lefty, the time for her to speak out would have been at election time. Lefty game creators certainly weren't shy about backing Kamala Harris. Remember that RPG list of losers? :) But Kelsey didn't publicly support Kamala in any way. If she didn't "pull a mask off" for November 2024, when the supposed stakes were high, I don't see her doing it now. Or in the future. Some (most?) people just aren't overly political. Kelsey comes across as a nice normie nerd girl, and that's probably exactly what she is.
As for Shadowdark itself, I haven't backed the Kickstarter yet, but I probably will end up doing so. I just need to decide between the regular or premium tiers. And whether or not I want the new GM Screen. And whether or not I want that cloth map. Decisions, decisions...
Shadowdark itself may not be the best RPG ever made, but it's easy, fun, accessible, nice to look at and the company behind it doesn't piss off/alienate their customers. I also really like that they picked a Western Marches campaign. It seems like a good fit for the system.
Quote from: Dracones on March 12, 2025, 06:53:33 PMShadowdark itself may not be the best RPG ever made, but it's easy, fun, accessible, nice to look at and the company behind it doesn't piss off/alienate their customers. I also really like that they picked a Western Marches campaign. It seems like a good fit for the system.
Yes, and it gets beyond the mindset that Shadowdark is only for dungeon crawls which is a smart move.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 12, 2025, 07:11:04 PMQuote from: Dracones on March 12, 2025, 06:53:33 PMShadowdark itself may not be the best RPG ever made, but it's easy, fun, accessible, nice to look at and the company behind it doesn't piss off/alienate their customers. I also really like that they picked a Western Marches campaign. It seems like a good fit for the system.
Yes, and it gets beyond the mindset that Shadowdark is only for dungeon crawls which is a smart move.
This is what many people on here and other places have been saying it is lacking: overland travel, more external activities, things to do outside of the dungeon, etc.
Can you do all this on your own? Sure if you have time and experience. For folks who want to dive in blind never having played D&D or a TTRPG before this makes that process very easy to impliment.
Except hexcrawls are as lame, if not more, than dungeon crawls; the latter at least is the stereotypical thing. The former exists mostly in the minds of OSR people and in Isle of Dread, and nothing else yet has been peddled as the "true way" to play when that was never the case.
$1.33 million as of the time of this post. Congrats to Kelsey!
Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 13, 2025, 10:28:48 AMThis is what many people on here and other places have been saying it is lacking: overland travel, more external activities, things to do outside of the dungeon, etc.
Can you do all this on your own? Sure if you have time and experience. For folks who want to dive in blind never having played D&D or a TTRPG before this makes that process very easy to impliment.
Greg Christopher made a GM Companion for Shadowdark that has overland and town travel guides that are pretty snazzy.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/513490/gm-companion-for-shadowdark (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/513490/gm-companion-for-shadowdark)
Shadowdark is a good OSR game, one that I would play. I'm even considering getting it in hardcopy format.
I recommend it to anybody who wants an RPG.
As for this product, I'm actually going to pass. However, this is because I'm not interested in campaign books. I like books with classes, bad guys, and gear. This feels more like the first one, and not the second.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 13, 2025, 07:22:19 PMShadowdark is a good OSR game, one that I would play. I'm even considering getting it in hardcopy format.
I recommend it to anybody who wants an RPG.
As for this product, I'm actually going to pass. However, this is because I'm not interested in campaign books. I like books with classes, bad guys, and gear. This feels more like the first one, and not the second.
From the Kickstarter,
QuoteThe Player's Guide to the Western Reaches has every official character option for Shadowdark RPG released outside the core rulebook, as well as a bunch of brand new material. This includes:
- 18 character classes and lots of new art, including the never-before-seen Kyzian Archer, Green Knight, and Monk of Yag-Kesh
- 8 ancestries with new in-world details, including the new half-elf and the kobold
- All gear lists, including boats, mounts, and poisons
- All spells for each class listed alphabetically by tier
- Lore, religious tenets, and holy symbols for each of the nine major gods
- New secrets and backgrounds tables for characters from the Western Reaches
- New adventuring factions characters can join for added benefits
- Gossip and everyday knowledge about the Reaches (rather than lore dumps)
I'm not trying to sell it - just thought you might have missed this.
I think there were a lot of people who got the core book, played it a bit. Liked it but dropped it cause they thought it was only for dungeon crawls (despite the core book making it clear you can do stuff overland, talk about RTFM) who then missed out on all the additional stuff added in the zines.
Now not everyone mentioned above is new. And if all weirdguy564 wants is classes and items, there's only 3 new classes in the actual Western Reaches setting books. Not sure if there will be any new items, outside of the stuff added in zine 4, 5 and 6. I'd say the big standouts are the books consolidating everything into one format, adding all the hex crawl maps together so they make sense, the 10 new crawl regions, weather mechanics, factions and I think most importantly the "Learning from special NPCs" part, in combination with something in the preview for zine # 6.
Saw that gone over in a video. In the zine it adds more things to do other than getting into benders between dungeons. Spiritual prayer/meditation, skullduggery, magical research and martial training which is interesting. Anyone can do it but it's based on your hit dice. With the checks changing based on that, with d4 being most limited and d8 getting something extra. The learning from npcs part seems to vary, I guess it'll both be for classes and more general as they have a witch and a survivalist as an example.
But the previews for all 3 zines and both books are available for download.
All the current classes are free over at the online character creator, Shadowdarklings.
I don't need this new book it seems.
I'm just disappointed. I read the title of the thread as "New 'Shadow Dark Western' reaches Kickstarter" and thought they were making a wild west game.
Quote from: ForgottenF on March 14, 2025, 08:39:22 AMI'm just disappointed. I read the title of the thread as "New 'Shadow Dark Western' reaches Kickstarter" and thought they were making a wild west game.
LOL. Given enough time and the license for third party products, I see this as an inevitability. :)
Quote from: RNGm on March 14, 2025, 10:51:28 AMQuote from: ForgottenF on March 14, 2025, 08:39:22 AMI'm just disappointed. I read the title of the thread as "New 'Shadow Dark Western' reaches Kickstarter" and thought they were making a wild west game.
LOL. Given enough time and the license for third party products, I see this as an inevitability. :)
Yup. There are already 3rd party post-apocalyptic and sci-fi settings for Shadowdark. A wild west game is only a matter of time.
My Little ShadowPony is probably more than just a fever dream as well... 'Effin furries ruin everything! :)
The Scrying Dutchman is making a modern warfare supplement for Shadowdark as we type this. It also is being funded by Kickstarter money. Currently sitting at about $8000 out of $2000 asked.
It's called Blacklight.
Blacklight for Shadowdark on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/scryingdutchman/blacklight-for-shadowdark-rpg)
BTW, Kelsey held a 2+ hour Ask Me Anything video on YouTube regarding her new Kickstarter. Someone asked about printing costs, and Kelsey said she wants to print all Shadowdark materials in the USA, because she supports her country. That was nice to hear.
Quote from: Crusader X on March 19, 2025, 05:04:26 PMBTW, Kelsey held a 2+ hour Ask Me Anything video on YouTube regarding her new Kickstarter. Someone asked about printing costs, and Kelsey said she wants to print all Shadowdark materials in the USA, because she supports her country. That was nice to hear.
Admittedly, I've been out of the printing business for 5+ years now. But even in the US, the problem where I worked was paper mills. Companies made more money converting their mills to produce toilet paper and feminine hygiene products. I don't know if that burden has been mitigated somehow. So printing in the US may not be the flex that is wanted.
Quote from: ForgottenF on March 14, 2025, 08:39:22 AMI'm just disappointed. I read the title of the thread as "New 'Shadow Dark Western' reaches Kickstarter" and thought they were making a wild west game.
Just saw this on KS, project coming soon:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/foxandboargames/shadowwest?ref=discovery&term=shadowdark&total_hits=153&category_id=34
ShadowWest - Wild West Dark Fantasy for Shadowdark
I assume its compatible with Lion & Dragon or with Baptism of Fire.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2025, 04:36:02 PMI assume its compatible with Lion & Dragon or with Baptism of Fire.
With a pry bar and enough duck tape, everything is compatible with Lion & Dragon.