Quote from: Baulderstone;878645There are no replacements. We don't have sales figures. That doesn't make your flawed numbers any better.

Then you are committed to having that very different type of conversation. Which is OK.

Quote from: econobus;878644Then we get the conniption and claims that Chaosium Did a Bad Thing by leaving a population of diehard "love RQ but hate Glorantha, no thanks" fans out in the cold.

There's also the faction that loved BRP/Magic World/etc... that feel a bit left out in the big rush to foreground Glorantha and RQ2. We might have bought Glorantha product to strip for parts, but apparently we were voting against our own interests by doing that.

And stop with the 'haters' nonsense... I don't see anyone saying they 'hate' Glorantha... we're just not interested in the setting.

Quote from: Simlasa;878648And stop with the 'haters' nonsense... I don't see anyone saying they 'hate' Glorantha... we're just not interested in the setting.

Oddly, Econobus seems to putting out the most hate in the thread. Well, except for CRKrueger, but that's just normal for him.

Quote from: Baulderstone;878650Oddly, Econobus seems to putting out the most hate in the thread. Well, except for CRKrueger, but that's just normal for him.

Nah. "Haters" is what my kids call anyone who isn't relentlessly cheerful. Looking back at the thread there's plenty of actual venom -- but I take the note, "not interested but no thanks" is a better way to sum up the first few innocent pages.

Quote from: Baulderstone;878641It's still not a particularly valid data point. The RQ6 Indiegogo campaign is for a fancy, limited edition copy of the rules in a slipcover. I don't own that. Nobody I play with owns that. I've never seen it in stores. I own the more common standard edition hardcover. I didn't pick it up for another year when buzz began to build around it. It just doesn't seem a useful measure for comparison.

Quote from: estar;878642And he ignoring the fact that RQ6 is a platinum seller on DriveThru.

There's so many ways that idiot is being deliberately disingenuous it's not worth arguing.

"Hey neither of us have total sales figures for Apples vs. Oranges but we do have sales figures for all apples of every type from the State of Washington so let's compare those to the sales figures we have of Seville Oranges in Japan, so until you have different numbers Apples are better."

Jackass.

Quote from: Baulderstone;878650Oddly, Econobus seems to putting out the most hate in the thread. Well, except for CRKrueger, but that's just normal for him.

Bah, MOB started it.

Quote from: Strother MartinWhich is the way he wants it.  Well, he gets it.

Platinum status for a product means that it is in the top .5% for the site. I don't have any platinum status products but I know people who do and it awarded when you get over around 1,500 sales. It is hard to be precise because OBS counts each storefront separately.

On RPGNow I have Majestic Wilderlands at Electrum status the same as RQ6 on RPGNow. I was awarded it when I had around 550 sales. It may be 500 is the cutoff point but since I had some DriveThruRPG sales (where I have silver status for MW) in the mix I can't be sure.

And I do know how many orders RPGNow processes because of Blackmarsh being downloaded nearly every day. For 2015 that was around 1,300,000 orders. Undoubtedly around 25% may be internal orders, or publisher only orders. But that a lot of volume no matter how you look at it.

And Legend is Platinum on both sites.

If you look at Moon Design's Glorantha products their best seller is only at Electrum.

The point is to show that RQ6 has a following that it as successful as other RPGs in it's tier. Not that is a wunderkind among RPGs in the way that Pathfinder, 5e, Star Wars, and Shadowrun are.

When I factor in the activity I see in both communities on their respective company's websites is that they are comparable in size and audience. Which is one reason that I view Chaosium omitting TDM out of the new push for Runequest was foolish. Not bad mind you, but foolish.

Quote from: estar;878656Platinum status for a product means that it is in the top .5% for the site. I don't have any platinum status products but I know people who do and it awarded when you get over around 1,500 sales. It is hard to be precise because OBS counts each storefront separately.

On RPGNow I have Majestic Wilderlands at Electrum status the same as RQ6 on RPGNow. I was awarded it when I had around 550 sales. It may be 500 is the cutoff point but since I had some DriveThruRPG sales (where I have silver status for MW) in the mix I can't be sure.

And I do know how many orders RPGNow processes because of Blackmarsh being downloaded nearly every day. For 2015 that was around 1,300,000 orders. Undoubtedly around 25% may be internal orders, or publisher only orders. But that a lot of volume.

And Legend is Platinum on both sites.

If you look at Moon Design's Glorantha products their best seller is only at Electrum.

The point is to show that RQ6 has a following that it as successful as other RPGs in it's tier. Not that is a wunderkind among RPGs in the way that Pathfinder, 5e, Star Wars, and Shadowrun are.

When I factor in the activity I see in both communities on their respective company's websites is that they are comparable in size and audience. Which is one reason that I view Chaosium omitting TDM out of the new push for Runequest was foolish. Not bad mind you, but foolish.

Not mention the fact that if you presume all RQ6 fans hate Glorantha (which is certainly NOT the case), many of them still would have bought all the RQ7 products that were filled with new game system mechanics.

Adventure in Glorantha had 352 Rune Spells (Theist in RQ6).  352.  Not to mention brand new versions of Shamanism and Sorcery.  As long as the RQ7 line products combined RQ6 rules expansions and setting content, people would have done what they always do with such books.  Buy for the rules, ignore the setting.  You think the person who bought the 50 page preview of AiG for $1000 dollars did it for small amount of rehashed setting content or for a ton of exclusive rules for the system that now cannot be published?

Chaosium just lost the sales of a ton of books.  It's not that they are serving Glorantha-philes, Glorantha-philes get served no matter the system, it's that they are specifically deciding to NOT sell to people who like the RQ6 system and would have bought rules expansions to mine for any setting.

They are step by step repeating WotC 4e disaster.
1. Take a decades old traditional system and toss narrative mechanics in. (CoC7)
2. Take a decent chunk of people you could make money off and fire them. (Dumping RQ6 rules)
3. Tell everyone involved to go fuck themselves in the process. (Pulling AiG and calling the new game RQ4)

CRKrueger keeps winning this thread over and over again.

Also, Estar, you should come out with a RQ6 version of Majestic Wilderlands.  It would fit very well with the forthcoming Classic Fantasy RQ6 supplement.

Quote from: estar;878656Platinum status for a product means that it is in the top .5% for the site. I don't have any platinum status products but I know people who do and it awarded when you get over around 1,500 sales. It is hard to be precise because OBS counts each storefront separately.

Now this is starting to get useful! So add a BASE of 1500 sales x $25 current PDF retail = $37,500 to the "no thanks" bucket. Could be infinite dollars, who knows, but let's start with the numbers we have. Double it for Legend even though that's a whole third type of fruit.

Quests is Electrum (use BASE of 500 sales although it could be up to double to get to Gold), Monster Island is Electrum, Ships+Walls Electrum, Hessaret is Silver, Korantia Silver, Mythic Britain Electrum, Britain Companion Silver, Taskan Empire Silver. Guess the Silver cut-off is 250 and call the supplements $23,500. Great stuff!

Of course I need those Japanese apples so Moon Design over there has the Dragon Pass Gaz at Silver, WF 15 at Silver, Champions Silver, other moldy stuff like ILH 1 and 2 Anaxial's Roster Thunder Rebels Blood over Gold Storm Tribe Barbarian Adventures 1 and 2 (=Issaries PDF) at Silver, SKOH and the new Pavis Silver, Griffin Mountain Pavis Cult Compendium Borderlands (=RQ2 Reprints) Electrum, HQ Core Intro to Hero Wars Electrum, Sartar Pack a lowly Copper so I'll just skip it, Stafford Library trending Silver except for Heortling Mythology and GROY (4 titles).

Doing the math there I would not kick the RQ6 titles out of bed unless there's no room left in the bed for some reason. But break it down. Heroquest Core and the old Glorantha book, Electrum, $10k. Add in SKOH and Pavis for another $27,500. The real numbers might be be double, but then again, RQ6 at Platinum might also be "infinite."

Problem: the new Heroquest Glorantha book isn't even sold through DTRPG so all talk of apples and oranges must now shudder to a halt! Only kidding. You can call it Electrum too for another $10k, but either way, as far as DTRPG goes, Glorantha-driven Heroquest undersells explicitly non-Glorantha RQ6.

Moral Lesson Learned: once you can see how big the garden is, you can start gauging the impact of walling bits of it off.

But how about them RQ2 reprints? Big price point, equivalent market. Four big books at Electrum adds a base of . . . count with my toes . .  fifty thousand dollars. And that's not counting the recent kickstarter, which we must never, ever do.

Perusing this thread, and GNR's 'Civil War' song comes randomly on in the background on one of my playlists. Surreal, yet the perfect soundtrack...

Quote from: Mankcam;878663Perusing this thread, and GNR's 'Civil War' song comes randomly on in the background on one of my playlists. Surreal, yet the perfect soundtrack...

Sayre's Law: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue—that is why academic politics are so bitter."

I'll employ econobus' esteemed logic and say that Moon Design should either design Runequest to run Theah or use 7th Sea rules to run Glorantha.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnwickpresents/7th-sea-second-edition

4,377 backers at $493,417 in 4 days with 30 days left on the Kickstarter.

Quote from: CRKrueger;878657Adventure in Glorantha had 352 Rune Spells (Theist in RQ6).  352.  Not to mention brand new versions of Shamanism and Sorcery.

I had no idea it was going to be that good! I was just annoyed. Now I'm mad.

Quote from: CRKrueger;878657They are step by step repeating WotC 4e disaster.
1. Take a decades old traditional system and toss narrative mechanics in. (CoC7)
2. Take a decent chunk of people you could make money off and fire them. (Dumping RQ6 rules)
3. Tell everyone involved to go fuck themselves in the process. (Pulling AiG and calling the new game RQ4)

#1 and #2 are dumb, but hey, it's their funeral. But #3 is sheer douchebaggery.

Hey, remember when we were laughing at CoC7 "pushing rolls" bullshit and Akrasia swung by to defend it?